ak distance, 1000 yards?

ttwinsupra · 05-06-2008, 11:13 PM

can ak reach 1000yards?

Big Tool · 05-06-2008, 11:59 PM

Well on the side of .22lr boxes it says that they can travel up to a mile and to use caution.

I'm sure the 7.62 rd will have no problem traveling 1000yards, but it will have a rainbow arch like none other to get there. You would probably have to aim about 50ft high, not kidding, not to mention the bullet would be going very slow by time it got there so wind would be pushing it all over the place.

Once it finally did hit a target at that distance it would have lost most it's energy and would probably be like getting hit with a rock. Not saying it wouldn't kill, but it would be a lucky shot.

7.62x39 is a great round under 300yards, anything over that and it's in questionable territory.

Put it this way. If I were in Iraq and there were a bunch of Arabs sitting 1,000yards away shooting at me with their ak's I wouldn't just sit there and laugh. Shit happens.

Billyz · 05-07-2008, 12:09 AM

I witnessed a friend of mine shooting bowling pins at 300 yards. Quite an amazing feat. No ass left behind em though. I agree you would have to aim 50 feet high at 1000.

GlockMeister · 05-07-2008, 12:12 AM

AN AKs "effective range is only 437 yards, per the military channels top ten combat rifles episode. Have it DVR'd and just checked it. I think 1000 yards is asking a bit much.

just_a_car · 05-07-2008, 12:45 AM

^-- +1, but I'd be willing to extend the "effective" range out to 4-500 yards, as that's what some "snipers" do with the Tabuk Sniper in 7.62x39, even though it's really a designated marksman's weapon.

Dragunov.net - The Iraqi Tabuk
Tabuk Sniper Rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I wouldn't think most rifles or calibers would make the 1000 meter/yard mark and get very good accuracy, but you really don't need that unless you're in competition or a special operations sniper in the military, but the latter has access to .50BMG and .338Lapua rifles and the former likely has the cash-flow to purchase weapons that can "reach out and touch someone".

Edit: the "+1" was to Big Tool's post, as that was the last post when I posted.

alaskamonte · 05-07-2008, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billyz

I witnessed a friend of mine shooting bowling pins at 300 yards. Quite an amazing feat. No ass left behind em though. I agree you would have to aim 50 feet high at 1000.

Weapon Platform was?

Ammunition Was?

No ass left behind em though. Huh?

For the curious, I've seen many so called cowboy gun lever actions that won't reliably hit even a bowling pin at 100yds (one in 38 inch twist kills accuracy!)

Sorry, my brain process attaches the 7.62x37 with the antiquated .30-30 hence the lever gun segway..

just_a_car · 05-07-2008, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alaskamonte

No ass left behind em though. Huh?

That one I can answer. He means "it didn't have any energy left".

Quote:

For the curious, I've seen many so called cowboy gun lever actions that won't reliably hit even a bowling pin at 100yds (one in 38 inch twist kills accuracy!)

Sorry, my brain process attaches the 7.62x37 with the antiquated .30-30 hence the lever gun segway..

The 7.62x39 can be related all you want to the .30-30, but they are different in many places:
7.62x39

Rimless
Designed for stacked magazine use
.308-.311 caliber
Usually spitzer/spire point bullet
Water capacity of case: 33.98 grains
Average weight of bullet: 110-150 grains (usually 125)
Rifled to 1-in-10" rifling

.30-30

Rimmed
Designed for tubular magazine use
.308-.309 caliber
Usually flat or round nosed bullet
Water capacity of case: 44.50 grains
Average weight of bullet: 110-150 grains
Rifled to 1-in-38" rifling (going by your info, not checked by me)

So, even though the .30-30 has more case capacity, by the reloading manual I have, the velocities are about the same for similar grain weight rounds (around 2000-2400 FPS), but the faster rifling of the 7.62x39 rifles will stabilize a bullet much better, allowing for better accuracy.

roadie · 05-07-2008, 02:30 AM

I hit a med sized cooler at about 500 yards with open sights with my ak-74, I was shocked...

just_a_car · 05-07-2008, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadie

I hit a med sized cooler at about 500 yards with open sights with my ak-74, I was shocked...

Just think, that's easily "torso-sized"...

alaskamonte · 05-07-2008, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadie

I hit a med sized cooler at about 500 yards with open sights with my ak-74, I was shocked...

The AK-74 does not use nor fire 7.62X39

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_a_car

That one I can answer. He means "it didn't have any energy left".

The 7.62x39 can be related all you want to the .30-30, but they are different in many places:
7.62x39

Rimless
Designed for stacked magazine use
.308-.311 caliber
Usually spitzer/spire point bullet
Water capacity of case: 33.98 grains
Average weight of bullet: 110-150 grains (usually 125)
Rifled to 1-in-10" rifling

.30-30

Rimmed
Designed for tubular magazine use
.308-.309 caliber
Usually flat or round nosed bullet
Water capacity of case: 44.50 grains
Average weight of bullet: 110-150 grains
Rifled to 1-in-38" rifling (going by your info, not checked by me)

So, even though the .30-30 has more case capacity, by the reloading manual I have, the velocities are about the same for similar grain weight rounds (around 2000-2400 FPS), but the faster rifling of the 7.62x39 rifles will stabilize a bullet much better, allowing for better accuracy.

Nope, sorry. Perhaps you could read about a gentleman named Tom Horn and his prowess with then new .30-30.

But then again I may well be arguing with myself since the biggest handicap the Com bloc short has is the ammo itself. Back in the sixties the only game in town was Norma ammunition for the war trophies that snuck back and it would normally do a tad over minute of angle while the lowly Winnie .30-30 would easily group inside the SKS group with budget Frontier ammo.

Ya see there is a reason that so many .30-30s were sold and are still in use and about to be reintroduced by (gasp!) Mossberg!

Bravo · 05-07-2008, 10:52 AM

I think the 1000m gauge on the rear sight was Russian propaganda, maybe to boost the troops confidence that their rifle could reach out and touch a sniper.

Will it shoot 1000m? Sure. I'm guessing the spread would be measured in feet though, many many feet.

mitch_mckee · 05-07-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttwinsupra

can ak reach 1000yards?

The max range is about 3,300 yards.

JBM Maximum Distance Output Input Data Ballistic Coefficient: 0.267 G1 Bullet Weight: 125.00 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2365.0 ft/s

Temperature: 59.00 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Corrected Pressure: Yes Calculated Parameters Atmospheric Density:0.07647 lbs/ft³ Speed of Sound:1116.5 ft/s
Initial Angle:30.0 deg Terminal Angle:62.1 deg Terminal Range:3320.0 yds Terminal Velocity:354.1 ft/s Terminal Time:24.176 s Terminal Energy:34.8 ft•lbs 07 May 2008 09:04:34, JBM [http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm]

mym1a · 05-07-2008, 11:09 AM

seems rather far for a 7.62X39 ???????????

SwedeSteve · 05-07-2008, 11:29 AM

Not to me. Remember, thats the Max Distance, not the Max Effective Distance.

roadie · 05-07-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadie
I hit a med sized cooler at about 500 yards with open sights with my ak-74, I was shocked...

The AK-74 does not use nor fire 7.62X39

I never said it was 7.62...it fires 5.45x39

squirrelbaster · 05-07-2008, 02:42 PM

it will go that far but, but it sure as heck will not hit what you want it to!

mitch_mckee · 05-07-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadie

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadie
I hit a med sized cooler at about 500 yards with open sights with my ak-74, I was shocked...

The AK-74 does not use nor fire 7.62X39

I never said it was 7.62...it fires 5.45x39

Yea. The 5.45x39 shoots a 50 grain bullet at 3,000 fps. That is comparable to the .223. A 500 yard shot is long, but certainly not out of the question.

Farmer · 05-08-2008, 05:02 AM

My chinese sks used to shoot a man size target at 600m

Thats a 1' x 2' ish card for 10 shots.

Wingwiper · 05-08-2008, 05:54 AM

Reaching out to 1000 yards and doing so with ACCURACY are two different conversations.

Most firearms have the ability to reach beyond one mile and any Range that you shoot at, has a CONE or a BUFFER ZONE or a SAFETY CONE or whatever name one chooses to hide the same info under. What the CONE is for is to take everything into account. A riccochette will travel at a much greater distance than a straight a way shot. When on a range the prospect of a round that has been fired and the potential of a riccochette is included when calculating the SAFETY CONES for the Range. With this fact many SMALL ARM Ranges have SAFETY CONES that exceed 3 miles and/or have a mountain or open water (Camp Perry) as a back drop. The mountains (in our cases) have to be higher than the angle of any potential riccochette. That is why Ranges specify what calibars are allowed on them. You may think that the you should be allowed to shoot a higher calibar, but in so doing you would exceed the CONE that is in place for that Range. When we fire Mortars and Artillery and even .50 cal, AIRSPACE has to be open as well. For .50 cal it is 9000 feet and for Mortars and Artillery it is 13600 feet, over the Ranges and IMPACT areas. Small arms have a regular AIRSPACE of 4000 feet. (with the thought, no one would be shooting straight up)

So can an AK reach 1000 yards? YES! can it do so effectively? Only in the hands of a very accomplished shooter.

Taurus Fan · 05-08-2008, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingwiper

Reaching out to 1000 yards and doing so with ACCURACY are two different conversations.

So can an AK reach 1000 yards? YES! can it do so effectively? Only in the hands of a very accomplished shooter.

"Accomplished" isn't quite strong enough to describe someone that can be effective at 1000 yards with an AK. "Christ-like" would be a better term.

05-06-2008, 11:13 PM	#1
ttwinsupra Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 209	ak distance, 1000 yards? can ak reach 1000yards?

05-07-2008, 12:09 AM	#3
Billyz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 105	I witnessed a friend of mine shooting bowling pins at 300 yards. Quite an amazing feat. No ass left behind em though. I agree you would have to aim 50 feet high at 1000. __________________ COG #47

05-07-2008, 12:12 AM	#4
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 5,513	AN AKs "effective range is only 437 yards, per the military channels top ten combat rifles episode. Have it DVR'd and just checked it. I think 1000 yards is asking a bit much. __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

05-07-2008, 12:45 AM	#5
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,522	^-- +1, but I'd be willing to extend the "effective" range out to 4-500 yards, as that's what some "snipers" do with the Tabuk Sniper in 7.62x39, even though it's really a designated marksman's weapon. Dragunov.net - The Iraqi Tabuk Tabuk Sniper Rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I wouldn't think most rifles or calibers would make the 1000 meter/yard mark and get very good accuracy, but you really don't need that unless you're in competition or a special operations sniper in the military, but the latter has access to .50BMG and .338Lapua rifles and the former likely has the cash-flow to purchase weapons that can "reach out and touch someone". Edit: the "+1" was to Big Tool's post, as that was the last post when I posted. __________________

05-07-2008, 02:30 AM	#8
roadie Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 639 Images: 10 Blog Entries: 1	I hit a med sized cooler at about 500 yards with open sights with my ak-74, I was shocked... __________________ Blaming guns for violent acts is like blaming the keyboard for your poor spelling.

05-06-2008, 11:59 PM	#2
Big Tool Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: MS Posts: 602	Well on the side of .22lr boxes it says that they can travel up to a mile and to use caution. I'm sure the 7.62 rd will have no problem traveling 1000yards, but it will have a rainbow arch like none other to get there. You would probably have to aim about 50ft high, not kidding, not to mention the bullet would be going very slow by time it got there so wind would be pushing it all over the place. Once it finally did hit a target at that distance it would have lost most it's energy and would probably be like getting hit with a rock. Not saying it wouldn't kill, but it would be a lucky shot. 7.62x39 is a great round under 300yards, anything over that and it's in questionable territory. Put it this way. If I were in Iraq and there were a bunch of Arabs sitting 1,000yards away shooting at me with their ak's I wouldn't just sit there and laugh. Shit happens.

05-07-2008, 10:52 AM	#11
Bravo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 1,900	I think the 1000m gauge on the rear sight was Russian propaganda, maybe to boost the troops confidence that their rifle could reach out and touch a sniper. Will it shoot 1000m? Sure. I'm guessing the spread would be measured in feet though, many many feet.

05-07-2008, 11:09 AM	#13
mym1a Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,313	seems rather far for a 7.62X39 ???????????

05-07-2008, 11:29 AM	#14
SwedeSteve Thor's Hammer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Alaska Posts: 10,400 Images: 1	Not to me. Remember, thats the Max Distance, not the Max Effective Distance. __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

05-07-2008, 02:12 PM	#15
roadie Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 639 Images: 10 Blog Entries: 1	Quote: Originally Posted by roadie I hit a med sized cooler at about 500 yards with open sights with my ak-74, I was shocked... The AK-74 does not use nor fire 7.62X39 I never said it was 7.62...it fires 5.45x39 __________________ Blaming guns for violent acts is like blaming the keyboard for your poor spelling.

05-07-2008, 02:42 PM	#16
squirrelbaster Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,269	it will go that far but, but it sure as heck will not hit what you want it to! __________________ "My Shotgun SAYS I AM the POLICE !"--Mooseman684 "I like Turtles!" youtube kid

05-08-2008, 05:02 AM	#18
Farmer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Limbri NSW Au Posts: 296	My chinese sks used to shoot a man size target at 600m Thats a 1' x 2' ish card for 10 shots. __________________ Cheers, Rob

05-08-2008, 05:54 AM	#19
Wingwiper Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 789	Reaching out to 1000 yards and doing so with ACCURACY are two different conversations. Most firearms have the ability to reach beyond one mile and any Range that you shoot at, has a CONE or a BUFFER ZONE or a SAFETY CONE or whatever name one chooses to hide the same info under. What the CONE is for is to take everything into account. A riccochette will travel at a much greater distance than a straight a way shot. When on a range the prospect of a round that has been fired and the potential of a riccochette is included when calculating the SAFETY CONES for the Range. With this fact many SMALL ARM Ranges have SAFETY CONES that exceed 3 miles and/or have a mountain or open water (Camp Perry) as a back drop. The mountains (in our cases) have to be higher than the angle of any potential riccochette. That is why Ranges specify what calibars are allowed on them. You may think that the you should be allowed to shoot a higher calibar, but in so doing you would exceed the CONE that is in place for that Range. When we fire Mortars and Artillery and even .50 cal, AIRSPACE has to be open as well. For .50 cal it is 9000 feet and for Mortars and Artillery it is 13600 feet, over the Ranges and IMPACT areas. Small arms have a regular AIRSPACE of 4000 feet. (with the thought, no one would be shooting straight up) So can an AK reach 1000 yards? YES! can it do so effectively? Only in the hands of a very accomplished shooter.