NYC bans mentioning the 2nd amendment

tlarkin · 05-10-2008, 01:09 PM

this is, well asinine

Gag on 2nd Amendment Is City’s Aim in Guns Suit | The New York Sun

Then again he is accused of selling guns to known criminals, or gun running for criminals or something like that.

KGunner · 05-10-2008, 01:13 PM

Wow...that is actually appalling. How can liberals champion free speech and tout the 1st and 4th but want to BAN mentioning the 2nd in a case that has to do with the 2nd.

AKHunter · 05-10-2008, 01:30 PM

This is utterly stupifying.

ghost_raven · 05-10-2008, 01:32 PM

Talk about blatantly unconstitutional.

The Tenth Amendment (loosely translated)- "Ye local governments shall not muck with the Constitution"

troy2000 · 05-10-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KGunner

Wow...that is actually appalling. How can liberals champion free speech and tout the 1st and 4th but want to BAN mentioning the 2nd in a case that has to do with the 2nd.

Please don't say that "liberals" want to ban mentioning the 2nd Amendment. It's one effing lawyer, trying to stack the odds in his favor before a trial starts. That's what lawyers do for a living, and it has nothing to do with liberalism or conservatism in general.

This thread has a very misleading title.

mitch_mckee · 05-10-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarkin

this is, well asinine

Gag on 2nd Amendment Is City’s Aim in Guns Suit | The New York Sun

Then again he is accused of selling guns to known criminals, or gun running for criminals or something like that.

tlarkin, you ought to be proud of your liberal ilk.

JohnBlaze · 05-10-2008, 01:34 PM

ArkansasHunter · 05-10-2008, 01:43 PM

Look's like this feller can make some Big Dollars later if they deny his Constitutional Right's.
That Bloomberg must be a Blooming Idiot !

stalebiscuit · 05-10-2008, 01:55 PM

im still in the dark about the straw sale thing

if i at 22 buy a handgun for someone else who is under 21, thats illegal

well if i made the purchase with cash, how can the unknowing gun vendor know its a straw sale, they are kinda unwitting participants

LarryO1970 · 05-10-2008, 02:19 PM

So, I'd take the city as well as Bloomberg to the DOJ for denying me my Constitutional Rights.

I'd love to know how much George Soros's money is being funneled into Bloomberg's "interests" ... as well as the mainly, not all... Liberal "interests" (gun control) to get this done...? If I were a betting man, I'd say there is a straight flow to every anti-gun effort on the books as well as the future plans for the dismissal of our 2nd Amendment right.

Obviously, they also have no problem denying the 1st Amendment right, why would they deny the 2nd Amendment rights?

TXplt · 05-10-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stalebiscuit

im still in the dark about the straw sale thing

if i at 22 buy a handgun for someone else who is under 21, thats illegal

well if i made the purchase with cash, how can the unknowing gun vendor know its a straw sale, they are kinda unwitting participants

A "straw sale" is a federal crime, and involves someone buying a firearm for another individual who's not legally entitled (qualified) to own it. The question is specifically asked as the first question on the 4473 yes/no part. Gun dealers are supposed to report suspected "straw sales" although how they would know a straw sale was happening is dubious. The "claim" of bloomberg and others is that people are buying guns in "normal" states like PA or GA and selling them to criminals in NJ/NY. This claim is largely BS, by the way.

If you sold a gun you already owned to someone who wasn't eligible to own it for whatever reason (and you knew this), strictly speaking, that wouldn't be a straw sale but would likely violate a host of federal and state laws.

troy2000 · 05-10-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stalebiscuit

im still in the dark about the straw sale thing

if i at 22 buy a handgun for someone else who is under 21, thats illegal

well if i made the purchase with cash, how can the unknowing gun vendor know its a straw sale, they are kinda unwitting participants

Well, if the person with you picks out a gun and you buy it, it's kind of obvious. My nephew Justin and I could probably make an undercover Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agent nervous, if he were watching either of us buy a gun; the two of us usually show up as a pair, and I rely heavily on his expertise. And of course, I like to handle guns and look them over even if he's the one looking to buy, and he always wants my opinion. So clerks have gotten confused before as to which one of us was actually buying the gun.

It happened on the .410 Stevens I just bought, because Justin used to have one as a kid and was delighted to get his hands on this one. I had to just about pry it away from him, and it took two or three tries to get through to the clerk that Justin might be drooling, but I was buying--for me.

There can be some serious questions about whether a clerk should have recognized a straw sale or not, just like it isn't always easy to tell whether an adult is buying beer for himself, or for the teenager with him. To make a case stick, the undercover agents should have to make it perfectly plain who the gun was supposedly for.

patrick70 · 05-10-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

Look's like this feller can make some Big Dollars later if they deny his Constitutional Right's.
That Bloomberg must be a Blooming Idiot !

He is a Blooming idiot,and then some.

He has taken a personal crusade to ban guns nationwide,a real low baller

Windwalker · 05-10-2008, 04:32 PM

But the people of New York City elected him. Of course, it only takes one more idiot voter than the rational voters have to elect him.

troy2000 · 05-10-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windwalker

But the people of New York City elected him. Of course, it only takes one more idiot voter than the rational voters have to elect him.

Keep an eye on him, Windwalker. As soon as he starts soft-pedaling his anti-gun actions again, and talking about how much respect he has for our 2nd Amendment rights, and for our proud heritage of hunting and the Great Outdoors, we'll know he's calculating his chances to run for president next time around.

tlarkin · 05-10-2008, 06:46 PM

The reason they did this is not allow the lawyers on the defense side turn this into a 2nd amendment argument since the accused sold guns illegally. It has nothing to do with the 2nd what so ever, however the defense will skew it that way.

What it does do, is give this guy a huge chance of appealing any charges convicted towards him. I am sure an Appeals court would eat up the banning of anything from the constitution.

troy2000 · 05-10-2008, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarkin

The reason they did this is not allow the lawyers on the defense side turn this into a 2nd amendment argument since the accused sold guns illegally. It has nothing to do with the 2nd what so ever, however the defense will skew it that way.

What it does do, is give this guy a huge chance of appealing any charges convicted towards him. I am sure an Appeals court would eat up the banning of anything from the constitution.

You're right, tlarkin; the case isn't about whether he has a Consitutional right to sell guns in general, but whether he broke the law by doing so outside the rules.

Did you notice: the opposing lawyer shrugged it off as no big deal, and basically said, "fine. We don't get to wave the 2nd Amendment, they don't get to scare the jurors with horror stories about the NRA's influence and power."

stalebiscuit · 05-11-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXplt

A "straw sale" is a federal crime, and involves someone buying a firearm for another individual who's not legally entitled (qualified) to own it. The question is specifically asked as the first question on the 4473 yes/no part. Gun dealers are supposed to report suspected "straw sales" although how they would know a straw sale was happening is dubious. The "claim" of bloomberg and others is that people are buying guns in "normal" states like PA or GA and selling them to criminals in NJ/NY. This claim is largely BS, by the way.

If you sold a gun you already owned to someone who wasn't eligible to own it for whatever reason (and you knew this), strictly speaking, that wouldn't be a straw sale but would likely violate a host of federal and state laws.

i understand.....but what is BOOBberg's legal claim, sounds like ass-talk to me

btw, i have been to adventure outdoors and am going to be making my next fire-arm purchases from them from now on, they need my support!

check out their website with weekly and monthly specials for all NIB items

advout.com

troy2000 · 05-11-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stalebiscuit

i understand.....but what is BOOBberg's legal claim, sounds like ass-talk to me

btw, i have been to adventure outdoors and am going to be making my next fire-arm purchases from them from now on, they need my support!

check out their website with weekly and monthly specials for all NIB items

advout.com

Since his agents were acting outside their jurisdiction, if they were doing straw sales they're guilty of a criminal violation themselves. Reminds me of a case in Oklahoma when I was there in the seventies, where a sheriff sent an underaged teenager across the county line to buy booze from a liquor store owned by the mother of the sheriff in the neighboring county, then had his deputies swoop across the line to arrest her. That one came very close to turning into a shooting war...

TXplt · 05-11-2008, 02:01 PM

It is hizzoner talking out his hind end with the whole project (as well as him and his agents committing not only a criminal act, but conspiracy to commit a criminal act--all prosecutable under federal law). Just a demagogue trying to get power and attention. Nothing new in politics; always wrong and in this case criminal as well. It's pretty much impossible to prove that a gun dealer should have reported or prevented a straw sale from occuring unless the perps specifically state "I'm buying this gun for someone who isn't allowed to have it," or something similar and the dealer sells them the gun anyway. Lots of people go with others to help them pick out and buy firearms for themselves. There's nothing criminal in this. A whole family (with no criminal record) can go look at a firearm and one of the family members buys it; nothing criminal in this either.

What he's been trying to do is use agents to elicit straw sales as a call for gun control in other soverign states. Essentially, a back-door method of gun control. He's trying to, through surrogates, extend his jurisdiction to somewhere it's not.

05-10-2008, 01:09 PM	#1
tlarkin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,555	this is, well asinine Gag on 2nd Amendment Is City’s Aim in Guns Suit \| The New York Sun Then again he is accused of selling guns to known criminals, or gun running for criminals or something like that. Last edited by tlarkin; 05-10-2008 at 01:12 PM.

05-10-2008, 01:13 PM	#2
KGunner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 426	Wow...that is actually appalling. How can liberals champion free speech and tout the 1st and 4th but want to BAN mentioning the 2nd in a case that has to do with the 2nd. __________________ Kel-Tec P11 Mossberg 500A Tactical 12 ga. 1947 Mosin Nagant M44 Yugo SKS 59/66

05-10-2008, 01:32 PM	#4
ghost_raven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 408	Talk about blatantly unconstitutional. The Tenth Amendment (loosely translated)- "Ye local governments shall not muck with the Constitution" __________________ The First Amendment defines America, the Second Amendment defends it.

05-10-2008, 01:34 PM	#7
JohnBlaze Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 119	wtf? __________________ Guns don't kill people. Husbands who came home early from work do. "I'm your Huckleberry"

05-10-2008, 02:19 PM	#10
LarryO1970 "Blazing Saddles" GOV Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Johnson Creek, WI Posts: 2,845	So, I'd take the city as well as Bloomberg to the DOJ for denying me my Constitutional Rights. I'd love to know how much George Soros's money is being funneled into Bloomberg's "interests" ... as well as the mainly, not all... Liberal "interests" (gun control) to get this done...? If I were a betting man, I'd say there is a straight flow to every anti-gun effort on the books as well as the future plans for the dismissal of our 2nd Amendment right. Obviously, they also have no problem denying the 1st Amendment right, why would they deny the 2nd Amendment rights? __________________ "Guess what?! I've got a fever, and the only prescription... is more cowbell!"

05-10-2008, 01:30 PM	#3
AKHunter Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 899	This is utterly stupifying.

05-10-2008, 01:43 PM	#8
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,680	Look's like this feller can make some Big Dollars later if they deny his Constitutional Right's. That Bloomberg must be a Blooming Idiot !

05-10-2008, 01:55 PM	#9
stalebiscuit Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: atlanta, but much rather be in valdosta Posts: 1,562	im still in the dark about the straw sale thing if i at 22 buy a handgun for someone else who is under 21, thats illegal well if i made the purchase with cash, how can the unknowing gun vendor know its a straw sale, they are kinda unwitting participants

05-10-2008, 04:32 PM	#14
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,542	But the people of New York City elected him. Of course, it only takes one more idiot voter than the rational voters have to elect him. __________________ America: Love it and protect it or leave it

05-10-2008, 06:46 PM	#16
tlarkin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,555	The reason they did this is not allow the lawyers on the defense side turn this into a 2nd amendment argument since the accused sold guns illegally. It has nothing to do with the 2nd what so ever, however the defense will skew it that way. What it does do, is give this guy a huge chance of appealing any charges convicted towards him. I am sure an Appeals court would eat up the banning of anything from the constitution.

05-11-2008, 02:01 PM	#20
TXplt Lost in the Ozone Again Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 2,779 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	It is hizzoner talking out his hind end with the whole project (as well as him and his agents committing not only a criminal act, but conspiracy to commit a criminal act--all prosecutable under federal law). Just a demagogue trying to get power and attention. Nothing new in politics; always wrong and in this case criminal as well. It's pretty much impossible to prove that a gun dealer should have reported or prevented a straw sale from occuring unless the perps specifically state "I'm buying this gun for someone who isn't allowed to have it," or something similar and the dealer sells them the gun anyway. Lots of people go with others to help them pick out and buy firearms for themselves. There's nothing criminal in this. A whole family (with no criminal record) can go look at a firearm and one of the family members buys it; nothing criminal in this either. What he's been trying to do is use agents to elicit straw sales as a call for gun control in other soverign states. Essentially, a back-door method of gun control. He's trying to, through surrogates, extend his jurisdiction to somewhere it's not. __________________ Old fighter pilots never die.....They just wind up in Texas Last edited by TXplt; 05-11-2008 at 02:17 PM.