AK's 7.62x39 and 7.62 NATO

Iron_Colonel · 05-08-2008, 07:54 AM

I got a buddy that is in the Natl Guard here in WA. We have been talking lately about military rifles and the like that he has experience with. The big thing is he doesn't know much about the calibers, in the standard caliber measurement, and millimeters for that matter. He informed me that the 7.62 that the M249B machine gun shoots, can be fired out of an AK-47. He showed me his field manual and I noticed it said NATO 7.62 for said machine gun (I am assuming this is not the SAW(M240?) that shoots the 5.56 that the standard issue M16/M4 and variants shoot the military use).

As I have come to learn is the 7.62 NATO is nearly the same measurements as a .308 Winchester. I have heard 7.62 NATO guns shouldn't be advised shoot the .308 Win, but a 7.62 NATO can be shot out of a .308 Win gun. I would like to confirm this in most cases that is true.

So, the question is, can the 7.62 round that is shot out of this M249B machine gun, actually be shot out of an AK-47? He informed me he was told that in basic, but I don't know if he is getting things mixed up or not. As I see the 7.62x39 and .308 Win side by side, the .308 is considerably taller, so thats where my doubts lie in the fact that it can't be done.

I know the size of the projectiles in both types of ammo, are roughly .30 cal. and feasibly the same round might be able to shot out the barrel, but the .308 Win won't fit in an AK mag, and would have to be fed round by round if it were to fire from an AK. I am quite confident I am right on this one. I'm not so good with the military jargon, so please any corrections if I misnamed any of the guns in questions.

Rex Kramer · 05-08-2008, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Colonel

So, the question is, can the 7.62 round that is shot out of this M249B machine gun, actually be shot out of an AK-47?

NO !!
7.62 NATO is 7.62mm x 51
Your standard AK47 fires a 7.62mm x 39 round.
Both are .30 cal, but you don't want to mix them up.

Left to Right:
7.62 NATO, 7.62 X 39, 5.56 NATO

Delta-3 · 05-08-2008, 08:24 AM

No! No! No!
Rex is correct. They are two completely different calibers.
You couldn't even get the 7.62 Nato (.308) to chamber in a AK or vise versa.
If he was told that during training then someone needs their "weinie" slapped!
The old "The enemy can use our ammo in their weapons but we can't use theirs has been around for almost a century & it's still crap. Unless it is the same caliber it isn't going to work, period! It might go in the chamber & the bolt may close but I don't want to be the one pulling the trigger!

knightRider · 05-08-2008, 08:25 AM

no way dude

SwedeSteve · 05-08-2008, 09:35 AM

Def a NO!

meatloaf · 05-08-2008, 01:01 PM

NO !!
7.62 NATO is 7.62mm x 51
Your standard AK47 fires a 7.62mm x 39 round.
Both are .30 cal, but you don't want to mix them up.

He is 100 perent correct. The 7.62 nato = 308 it is not a 7.62 x 39.

Now could the projectile be taken off a 7.62 x 39 and be pressed into a 30 shell and then fired? IDK

Iron_Colonel · 05-08-2008, 04:24 PM

Ok thanks guys. When I was comparing the .308 Win with the 7.62x39, the only way I can see it feasible is if the .308 will actually feed into the barrel of an AK. Plus, it would have to seat in the bolt carrier assembly too in order to be able to make contact with the firing pin. I doubt the firing pin is hit hard enough to protrude far enough to contact the primer if its not seated fully and properly to actually fire the .308 or 7.62 NATO in an AK anyways. Maybe I will go see if it will fit because I have an AK and a rifle that shoots .308. The other thing I also didn't think would happen is the shape of the two is so different, and the .308 is so long compared to the 7.62x39, and the shape of the shoulders are different, I just don't see it happening. I agree, if it did go in the chamber and bolt closed all the way, I wouldn't want to be pulling the trigger on that one either. I wonder if its possible the 5.56 can shoot out of the 5.45 AK-74 models? Wikipedia said Russia made some AK variants that will shoot the 5.56 NATO, maybe thats where he's getting it from? But I don't think 5.56 can shoot out of 5.45, even tho the caliber is quite close, the case length is off by a little so I doubt it there too. Any more input?

ghost_raven · 05-08-2008, 06:34 PM

Yeah... definitely not something you'd want to experiment with. Very different cartridges.

There is however a rifle very similar to an AK that does shoot .308/7.62 NATO... the Saiga. Saw one in the gun shop recently for around $600.

Also, I'd suggest staying away from experimenting with bullets... just use the ones that the gun is made for. There are a few exceptions... .223 and 5.56 NATO are the same, except 5.56 is loaded for higher pressures... so, while you can use a .223 round in a 5.56 rifle, I wouldn't suggest using a 5.56 round in a rifle made specifically for .223. The same probably goes for .308 and 7.62 NATO.

Also, you can use a .38 Special round in a .357 Magnum revolver, but you can't do it the other way around... the same being true of .44 Special and .44 magnums, etc.

just_a_car · 05-09-2008, 02:11 AM

Hey Iron Colonel, if you're on the Western part of the state, have your buddy, you and I go out for coffee some time and I can set him straight on that issue and many others if you have questions.

I'll even bring along "props", as I have a CETME in .308Win/7.62NATO and an AES-10 in 7.62x39.

Send me a PM and we can work something out. I just need a little heads-up, as my schooling is pretty crazy this quarter.

Righteous · 05-09-2008, 05:39 AM

7.62 nato = 30 cal= 30-06

just_a_car · 05-09-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Righteous

7.62 nato = 30 cal= 30-06

Wrong.

7.62NATO = 7.62x51
.30-06 = 7.62x63
7.62x39... well, that's self-explanatory.
.30 cal is also sometimes called .30 carbine, which is 7.62x33 (fired from the M1 Carbine).

Please, if you're not sure of your information, don't post it as fact. This isn't the first time I've had to correct a grievous error in your posts Righteous.

ghost_raven · 05-09-2008, 10:40 PM

Righteous, no offense, but those are three very different calibers. 7.62 NATO and 30-06 may be comparable in power, but not in cartridge size. And, .30 cal is quite a small one by comparison.

Righteous · 05-10-2008, 06:49 AM

cases of 30-06 i been buying all say 7.62 nato

sonny2u2 · 05-10-2008, 09:09 AM

I have never personally had any problem with .308Win's or 7.62 x 51 interchanging them between guns. What I read is that the cases are thicker on 7.62 x 51 rounds so powder capacity is reduced. Not a factor for me because I rarely load to max limits. Main difference I see is that military barrels are usually faster twist, 1/10 twist and .308 Win barrels that I'm familiar with are 1/12 twist.

Pulling a pullet from a 7.62 x 39 and pushing it into a .308Win case or 30-06 case, I won't do. Bullets I've pulled from 7.62 x 39 and 7.62 x 54 (Nagant) are .311-.312 diameter and I'm not shoving them down my .308Win barrels. Personal choice, not saying it can't be done.

Otter · 05-10-2008, 05:16 PM

I had a friend who was in the National Guard, he was told the same crap about the 5.56X45mm round being able to fire in the AK47. I showed my friend the two rounds and he insisted the 5.56 will fire in the AK.
It pi$$e$ me off that some moron tells this to our guys in basic and they take it as fact.
On the history channel, I saw a guy who's suppossed to be a former Navy SEAL say the AK47 uses the 7.62mm NATO round, holding the round next to the 5.56.

Iron_Colonel · 05-11-2008, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

I had a friend who was in the National Guard, he was told the same crap about the 5.56X45mm round being able to fire in the AK47. I showed my friend the two rounds and he insisted the 5.56 will fire in the AK.
It pi$$ me off that some moron tells this to our guys in basic and they take it as fact.
On the history channel, I saw a guy who's suppossed to be a former Navy SEAL say the AK47 uses the 7.62mm NATO round, holding the round next to the 5.56.

Thats interesting. I am surprised they would let that stuff get on TV when its not right like that. But perhaps the particular model AK he had was chambered in a 7.62 NATO and they just didn't specify? Who knows. Or I also wonder if people see an AK74 and automatically think AK47. I don't know right off if I would be able to pick out an AK74 side by side with AK47s from a few feet away. I don't know much about the '74s but would like to shoot one sometime.

meatloaf · 05-11-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Colonel

Thats interesting. I am surprised they would let that stuff get on TV when its not right like that. But perhaps the particular model AK he had was chambered in a 7.62 NATO and they just didn't specify? Who knows. Or I also wonder if people see an AK74 and automatically think AK47. I don't know right off if I would be able to pick out an AK74 side by side with AK47s from a few feet away. I don't know much about the '74s but would like to shoot one sometime.

the same channel also did a show on magnum calibers and it was loaded with wrong information. I cant think of it all, but the one that sticks out in my mind is that the 300 win mag has zero bullet drop over a thousand yards. Now not even knowing anything about guns how could that physicaly be possable unless the bullet had wings to create an uplift effect to cancle out gravity. Now Im not saying it drops alot but it has bullet drop.

Mike Franklin · 05-11-2008, 07:20 PM

7.62X39=Soviet Round
7.62x63=.30-06 old US Round
7.62x51= old US/NATO Round

For years the US Military has continued to teach the common soldier, other than Special Forces, that most US and Soviet rounds are interchangeable. I don't argue with those that believe this, I just bet'm a $5 that it ain't so.

Hahn · 05-11-2008, 08:14 PM

How do you put 5 ponds of schit in a 3 pound bag? Go ahead put your Nato 7.62x51 in a gun chamberd for 7.62x39. Right off the magezines will tell you "Don't do it". OK try to force feed it, just open the bolt a jam a NATO round inside. Hope your related to a Pastic Surgeon.

ghost_raven · 05-11-2008, 10:49 PM

Also, even if the bullet itself (excluding cartridge size) may fit in the bore, well... this may very well be the first time I've had to say this... but size isn't everything... lol.

Barrels were made for the pressures associated with the caliber that they were made for. This is why you can shoot .38 Spl through a .357 Magnum, but not .357 Magnum through a .38 Spl... well, excluding the fact that the .357 cartridges are longer and wouldn't fit in a cylinder designed for .38 Spl rounds.

05-08-2008, 07:54 AM	#1
Iron_Colonel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Washington St. Posts: 372	AK's 7.62x39 and 7.62 NATO I got a buddy that is in the Natl Guard here in WA. We have been talking lately about military rifles and the like that he has experience with. The big thing is he doesn't know much about the calibers, in the standard caliber measurement, and millimeters for that matter. He informed me that the 7.62 that the M249B machine gun shoots, can be fired out of an AK-47. He showed me his field manual and I noticed it said NATO 7.62 for said machine gun (I am assuming this is not the SAW(M240?) that shoots the 5.56 that the standard issue M16/M4 and variants shoot the military use). As I have come to learn is the 7.62 NATO is nearly the same measurements as a .308 Winchester. I have heard 7.62 NATO guns shouldn't be advised shoot the .308 Win, but a 7.62 NATO can be shot out of a .308 Win gun. I would like to confirm this in most cases that is true. So, the question is, can the 7.62 round that is shot out of this M249B machine gun, actually be shot out of an AK-47? He informed me he was told that in basic, but I don't know if he is getting things mixed up or not. As I see the 7.62x39 and .308 Win side by side, the .308 is considerably taller, so thats where my doubts lie in the fact that it can't be done. I know the size of the projectiles in both types of ammo, are roughly .30 cal. and feasibly the same round might be able to shot out the barrel, but the .308 Win won't fit in an AK mag, and would have to be fed round by round if it were to fire from an AK. I am quite confident I am right on this one. I'm not so good with the military jargon, so please any corrections if I misnamed any of the guns in questions.

05-08-2008, 08:24 AM	#3
Delta-3 Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NW Ohio but Montana is always home Posts: 94	No! No! No! Rex is correct. They are two completely different calibers. You couldn't even get the 7.62 Nato (.308) to chamber in a AK or vise versa. If he was told that during training then someone needs their "weinie" slapped! The old "The enemy can use our ammo in their weapons but we can't use theirs has been around for almost a century & it's still crap. Unless it is the same caliber it isn't going to work, period! It might go in the chamber & the bolt may close but I don't want to be the one pulling the trigger! __________________ Be polite. Be professional but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

05-08-2008, 08:25 AM	#4
knightRider Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: you know where Posts: 2,680 Images: 19 Blog Entries: 11	no way dude __________________ I'm part kalishnakov, part heckler and Koch.

05-08-2008, 09:35 AM	#5
SwedeSteve Bullet Maintenance !! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The anchor point, Alaska Posts: 10,251 Images: 1	Def a NO! __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

05-08-2008, 06:34 PM	#8
ghost_raven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 408	Yeah... definitely not something you'd want to experiment with. Very different cartridges. There is however a rifle very similar to an AK that does shoot .308/7.62 NATO... the Saiga. Saw one in the gun shop recently for around $600. Also, I'd suggest staying away from experimenting with bullets... just use the ones that the gun is made for. There are a few exceptions... .223 and 5.56 NATO are the same, except 5.56 is loaded for higher pressures... so, while you can use a .223 round in a 5.56 rifle, I wouldn't suggest using a 5.56 round in a rifle made specifically for .223. The same probably goes for .308 and 7.62 NATO. Also, you can use a .38 Special round in a .357 Magnum revolver, but you can't do it the other way around... the same being true of .44 Special and .44 magnums, etc. __________________ The First Amendment defines America, the Second Amendment defends it. Last edited by ghost_raven; 05-08-2008 at 06:39 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

05-08-2008, 01:01 PM	#6
meatloaf Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: lakewood CO Posts: 902 Images: 3	NO !! 7.62 NATO is 7.62mm x 51 Your standard AK47 fires a 7.62mm x 39 round. Both are .30 cal, but you don't want to mix them up. He is 100 perent correct. The 7.62 nato = 308 it is not a 7.62 x 39. Now could the projectile be taken off a 7.62 x 39 and be pressed into a 30 shell and then fired? IDK

05-08-2008, 04:24 PM	#7
Iron_Colonel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Washington St. Posts: 372	Ok thanks guys. When I was comparing the .308 Win with the 7.62x39, the only way I can see it feasible is if the .308 will actually feed into the barrel of an AK. Plus, it would have to seat in the bolt carrier assembly too in order to be able to make contact with the firing pin. I doubt the firing pin is hit hard enough to protrude far enough to contact the primer if its not seated fully and properly to actually fire the .308 or 7.62 NATO in an AK anyways. Maybe I will go see if it will fit because I have an AK and a rifle that shoots .308. The other thing I also didn't think would happen is the shape of the two is so different, and the .308 is so long compared to the 7.62x39, and the shape of the shoulders are different, I just don't see it happening. I agree, if it did go in the chamber and bolt closed all the way, I wouldn't want to be pulling the trigger on that one either. I wonder if its possible the 5.56 can shoot out of the 5.45 AK-74 models? Wikipedia said Russia made some AK variants that will shoot the 5.56 NATO, maybe thats where he's getting it from? But I don't think 5.56 can shoot out of 5.45, even tho the caliber is quite close, the case length is off by a little so I doubt it there too. Any more input?

05-09-2008, 02:11 AM	#9
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,504	Hey Iron Colonel, if you're on the Western part of the state, have your buddy, you and I go out for coffee some time and I can set him straight on that issue and many others if you have questions. I'll even bring along "props", as I have a CETME in .308Win/7.62NATO and an AES-10 in 7.62x39. Send me a PM and we can work something out. I just need a little heads-up, as my schooling is pretty crazy this quarter. __________________

05-09-2008, 05:39 AM	#10
Righteous Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 214	7.62 nato = 30 cal= 30-06

05-09-2008, 10:40 PM	#12
ghost_raven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 408	Righteous, no offense, but those are three very different calibers. 7.62 NATO and 30-06 may be comparable in power, but not in cartridge size. And, .30 cal is quite a small one by comparison. __________________ The First Amendment defines America, the Second Amendment defends it.

05-10-2008, 06:49 AM	#13
Righteous Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 214	cases of 30-06 i been buying all say 7.62 nato

05-10-2008, 09:09 AM	#14
sonny2u2 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Arkansas Posts: 54	I have never personally had any problem with .308Win's or 7.62 x 51 interchanging them between guns. What I read is that the cases are thicker on 7.62 x 51 rounds so powder capacity is reduced. Not a factor for me because I rarely load to max limits. Main difference I see is that military barrels are usually faster twist, 1/10 twist and .308 Win barrels that I'm familiar with are 1/12 twist. Pulling a pullet from a 7.62 x 39 and pushing it into a .308Win case or 30-06 case, I won't do. Bullets I've pulled from 7.62 x 39 and 7.62 x 54 (Nagant) are .311-.312 diameter and I'm not shoving them down my .308Win barrels. Personal choice, not saying it can't be done.

05-10-2008, 05:16 PM	#15
Otter Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 949 Images: 6	I had a friend who was in the National Guard, he was told the same crap about the 5.56X45mm round being able to fire in the AK47. I showed my friend the two rounds and he insisted the 5.56 will fire in the AK. It pi$$e$ me off that some moron tells this to our guys in basic and they take it as fact. On the history channel, I saw a guy who's suppossed to be a former Navy SEAL say the AK47 uses the 7.62mm NATO round, holding the round next to the 5.56. __________________ Life is too important to be taken seriously. Last edited by Otter; 05-10-2008 at 05:20 PM.

05-11-2008, 07:20 PM	#18
Mike Franklin Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Poteet, Texas Posts: 1,276	7.62X39=Soviet Round 7.62x63=.30-06 old US Round 7.62x51= old US/NATO Round For years the US Military has continued to teach the common soldier, other than Special Forces, that most US and Soviet rounds are interchangeable. I don't argue with those that believe this, I just bet'm a $5 that it ain't so.

05-11-2008, 08:14 PM	#19
Hahn Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 87	How do you put 5 ponds of schit in a 3 pound bag? Go ahead put your Nato 7.62x51 in a gun chamberd for 7.62x39. Right off the magezines will tell you "Don't do it". OK try to force feed it, just open the bolt a jam a NATO round inside. Hope your related to a Pastic Surgeon.

05-11-2008, 10:49 PM	#20
ghost_raven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 408	Also, even if the bullet itself (excluding cartridge size) may fit in the bore, well... this may very well be the first time I've had to say this... but size isn't everything... lol. Barrels were made for the pressures associated with the caliber that they were made for. This is why you can shoot .38 Spl through a .357 Magnum, but not .357 Magnum through a .38 Spl... well, excluding the fact that the .357 cartridges are longer and wouldn't fit in a cylinder designed for .38 Spl rounds. __________________ The First Amendment defines America, the Second Amendment defends it.