Alright, I know it's a crap pistol, but...

[JohnR]

My wife has a Phoenix Arms Raven (no, I didn't buy it for her).

I've got my Ruger MKII.

What might you recommend for practice ammo?

I'd like "quiet" rounds to keep from bothering/scaring the neighbors.

Searching online for information hasn't helped much, so any suggestions will be appreciated.

[Enscribe]

get "range safe" labeled ammo. I don't know what the soecific ballistics are but I would assume one looking for a "quiet" box of rounds may start there. Otherwise get a permit and a silencer.

[HARDERTR]

You could get one of those water balloon slingshots.....and use the Raven as ammo.

[troylaplante]

I have heard a few good things from Phoenix owners, so I am not so sure they are crap pistols or not. I have never handled one personally. Like the HiPoint, they have their detractors and supporters.

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

Does the gun function reliably?

Does your wife feel comfortable shooting it?

Is your wife proficient with it?

If so then the gun may not be that bad. Gun snobbery has no place at G&G. If someone has a problem with the type of firearm your wife uses then perhaps they should put up the money so she can get one they approve of.

[toolman]

Is the Raven a .22 like your Ruger? If so, look into the Aquila Super Colibri round. It's great at most .22 practice ranges up to 25 yds or so and sounds about like a cap gun. Aguila Ammunition .22 Rimfire / Calibre .22 - Centurion Ordnance, Inc.

[gandog56]

Hey, my first semi was a .25 caliber Raven. It was a piece of crap for accuracy, but it pretty much went bang when I pulled the trigger.

[JohnR]

Perhaps I was a bit harsh on the Raven. It does, indeed go bang (very loudly) it's not a .22 --- .25 ACP, which isn't nearly as cheap or easy to find.

My wife isn't much of a shooter - she's kept it for protection, though she didnt have any rounds for it until a few weeks ago.

To be honest, I haven't really given it a good try. I don't much like the way it feels in my hand, but her hands are much smaller.

I've been looking around at getting her a 9 mm to replace it - one that I could use too, obviously. The Beretta 92 Vertec caught my eye, also a Glock 19 or 26. I'm thinking the lighter weight might appeal to her.

At any rate, I need to get her to a shop/range to see what she feels good with.

[TXplt]

I had a Raven .25; very heavy trigger pull but did go bang when I pulled it.

The .25's not much of a good defensive round (with very limited ammo choices) at all. If it's all you have or can afford, it's better than nothing. There have been cases where people have defended themselves against an attacker with it and it's worked.

If you aren't extremely resource limited, the G26 is so much better of a choice for a defensive pistol; think of how much your life's worth and a defensive handgun is a tool to preserve this. I'd suggest going to a range and trying a few out to see what you and your wife like. Maybe even consider a revolver (.38), or small frame 9mm. I'd rather have a nine, but a .380 would be orders of magnitude of an improvement over a R25--the LCP .380 and all the similar designs are of similar size but so much more gun in all respects.

.25's kind of give you the worst of all worlds--expensive ammo vs. .22; more limited ammo than .22, not much more reliability than .22 if at all, and requiring expert bullet placement to stop an attacker (although all guns do). Think of this in perspective--for the same price as a few boxes of .25 ammo you could upgrade to a better pistol.

Again, if this is all you got it beats nothing at all; but if you can afford even a couple of hundred bucks there are so many better choices out there.

[big boomer]

Any gun beats a rock, take pride in your firearms and shoot with pride.

[evilblackrifle]

No offense, but if it was me I'd buy your wife a better gun. Not only because its a *Cringe* Raven, but because its a .25 caliber.

[NRAJOE]

I had one of those Phoenix .22's...thought they were cool looking...jammed all the time!

I traded it off on something else...you should really get her somthing else...matbe a .22 revolver?

[JohnR]

I've got a ruger Mark II. tried some of that Colibri Ammo in it...It doesn't seem to fit in the magazine too well. I can get 4-5 rounds in, then they start popping out on me. I didn't expect them to cycle, but had trouble getting them to feed by pulling back the bolt too.

They worked much better in my Winchester rifle...noise was negligible. still wouldn't cycle, of course, and still had slight problems feeding, but not near as bad as th pistol.

[FS00008]

JohnR, maybe look into a HiPoint C9 if you have a spare $100-$150. 9MM, ugly as sin, and reliable (I have reversed my opinion on this one...). My uncle bought one for my cousin and she can handle it fine, and has put about 1500 rounds through it in only a month. She loves the thing. I can't wait till July when I can try the sucker out :-D. She carries concealed in her purse with an Ankle holster for her little .357 mag that she used have as her primary CCW gun on her ankle as a "backup".

I agree that a Glock may be better, but if you want cheap and reliable, a HiPoint may be worth looking into. Also, don't forget about Springfield's XD line of polymer pistols. I may be wrong, but I believe that you can pick one up for less than a Glock.

In terms of ammo for the .25, I have never even held, much less shot a .25ACP so I can't "bash" one. I do know that I doubt it'd do much and I'd trust my life to a .22 over a .25 if only because I have so much more practice with it in my 1911 (I have a conversion kit) and .22 rifles and I believe that I could place much more accurate shots with .22 than .25.

How does .25ACP compare to .22WMR in terms of price? Stopping power?

[TXplt]

.25 ACP is both more expensive and has a good deal less ammo choices and energy than the 22 WMR.

.22 WMR actually (out of a medium bbl length gun) has quite a bit of speed and energy.

In perspective, from a cost-benefit, the high point discussion makes sense--9mm power for the price of 5 boxes of .25 ammo ?

If I had the $, I'd go for the G26, though.

And they all beat rocks

[FS00008]

Are there .22WMR Pistols available? Yes, I can't wait to try the HiPoint. I used to hate them just based on looks... but now I feel that if it works reliably and safely and doesn't cost too much than it should be fine.

[TXplt]

Smith I think made or makes a 648, which I believe is 22 mag. There are likely others (maybe Taurus). Relative has a long barrel blue k-22 in 22 mag he got in the 80's which is a beautiful and great shooting gun.

[JohnR]

Shift of focus (thanks wifey) she now says she'd be okay with a 12ga for home defense - I work nights - so now the 9 mm is for me!! Woohoo I want one of each....wait...gotta buy some lottery tickets first....

[FS00008]

Well John, the question now becomes..

How much do you want to spend? What sort of size are you interested in? Does it necessarily have to be a Glock or Beretta? Does it "Have" to be a 9MM?

I personally have carried a .45ACP 1911A1 and a .357 Mag Smith and Wesson J-Frame and those are the extent of my CCW experience since I've recently moved to California. Personally, I don't really like 9MM, but I'm not going to tell ya that it won't stop anybody... It's just that I don't trust 9MM.

I stand by my recommendation of the HiPoint if you're on a budget and want to stick to 9MM. Very reliable guns that go bang each time you need them too and are reasonably accurate for CCW. A "cheap" Glock in other words :-D.

[gandog56]

Originally Posted by troylaplante

I have heard a few good things from Phoenix owners, so I am not so sure they are crap pistols or not. I have never handled one personally. Like the HiPoint, they have their detractors and supporters.

My first handgun ever was a .25 Raven. It worked, but that is about all I can say about it. The penetration and accuracy was nothing to write home about. I soon got serious and traded it in and put up some cash for a new .357 mag. That was about 28 years ago, so I can't help with any modern ammo suggestions for it.