New Taurus " JUDGE " - Page 4

TXplt · 01-24-2008, 09:43 AM

Yeah....things definitely can change when you get surprised or the paper starts shooting back. The situation you described is not all that uncommon. Some pundits criticizing this revolver in particular (or revolvers in general) haven't come to terms that despite their hi-cap pistols and extensive schooling in arms they can still miss. Don't get me wrong; I'm all for carrying and great training with the gun that's right for you. But one always needs to keep one's limitations in mind.

This is a good gun for a close in situation or a family defensive situation where the shooter may be limited in time, light, proficiency, or under considerable pressure. I do alot more shooting than my wife and our home requires a secure but accessable handgun; this fits our situation well. I certainly wouldn't rely on the .410 as a credible stopper, but any hit beats any loud miss any day. Yes, bird shot is for birds and the buck may not penetrate as much as you'd want it to. But a solid hit from either may well stop your threat du jour in its tracks or dissuade it/him/her to pursue other activities immediately. If they're/it's high on something or hell bent on killing YOU, you've got the .45s as a proven stopper. The heavy Buffalo Bore standard press is enough for me in this gun (they make a 255gr Keith and a 200gr Gold Dot HP), and I'd personally stay away from the +Ps unless I knew them to be safe from the mfr.

A gun's no different than any other tool; pick the right tool for the right jobs and try not to use a screwdriver to pound nails if you can. Only you can figure out your own situation and if this will fit the bill. Mine give reasonable accuracy (3-4" offhand at 15 yds) with .45 LC and pattern about the same as everyone elses' -- 000 gives about a foot between pellets at 15 yds, printing on a standard silohette. I can't see what purpose the slugs serve other than being a blast to shoot (about as accurate as the .45's with a big bang and a few inches of flame out of the muzzle). The shot spreads out alot faster than it slows down, for me covering a silohette target somewhere between 10 and 20 feet. This is what gives me some pause about using it as a CCW in populated areas unless it was all I had (other than the gun being big). On the other hand, the shot would be alot less of a threat at range than a bullet which misses.

Anyway, cheers and good shooting.

nicksguns · 01-27-2008, 01:02 PM

I recently bought a "Judge" for $375. Blue 6"
I don't know about the self defense issues with the 410. I have shot the 410 with 8 shot at 15 feet and found that it would be deadly to any small varmit at that range. The 410 slug makes a very nasty hole at that range and was very accurate. I have watched a video of a man that tested the Judge and proclaimed the 45 Colt to be accurate to 100 yards and the 410 slug only to 15 yards. I have not had the opportunity to shoot any 45s yet but can say that this gun is a blast to shoot and the reason I bought it was to have fun with and it certainly is that. Hope all the rest of you have as much fun with yours as well

TXplt · 01-28-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksguns

I recently bought a "Judge" for $375. Blue 6"
I don't know about the self defense issues with the 410. I have shot the 410 with 8 shot at 15 feet and found that it would be deadly to any small varmit at that range. The 410 slug makes a very nasty hole at that range and was very accurate. I have watched a video of a man that tested the Judge and proclaimed the 45 Colt to be accurate to 100 yards and the 410 slug only to 15 yards. I have not had the opportunity to shoot any 45s yet but can say that this gun is a blast to shoot and the reason I bought it was to have fun with and it certainly is that. Hope all the rest of you have as much fun with yours as well

I'd be lucky to call anything I could do with my Judge "accurate" at 100 yards other than it didn't get into the next county. To be honest, I consider this pistol as more of a short-range gun (short-range being within 50 feet). The .45 Colts give for me at best 3" groups at 15 yards -- 6" version might do better, but you have that long jump from cylinder into flash gap and rifling.

Glad you're having fun with the gun--it's always a blast for me and one of the few guns I've shot at the range that during the shooting (no kidding) makes me smile. You can also bust clays with it in the old point and shoot and hand thrown clays.

When you get serious, you need to figure how to load the gun. This will depend on your anticipated threat. The .45 colt is about the same at the .45 ACP. The major advantage of this gun is being a point-and-shoot (i.e. when you're faced with pressure you didn't have before of a family member with limited proficiency takes up arms they can hit something under pressure). The .410 shot load won't stop a determined or high person. It will deter someone to pursue other interests. The .410 buck has penetration issues, but will spread out and potentially stop (3 .36 caliber balls at the same velocity as the old black powder navy colt per shot). The .45 Colt will eventually stop with proper shot placement.

The slugs are a bit of an anolomy; I can't figure where they fit. They shoot POA at 15 yards. At 12-1300 fps and just shy of 100 gr. they're like a 110 gr .357. I'd almost always load the colt .45's unless I had some compelling reason not to -- for example if you were doing interior aircraft defense the limited penetration of the slugs might be a good call.

For general use, I load my guns bird, buck, .45 colt, .45 colt (buffalo bore 255 gr keith and 200 gr GDHP) and buck. Your mileage might vary, but this is the best loadout for my home defense situation.

Cheers, and good luck.

Cyrano · 01-28-2008, 10:52 AM

My 2 cents.

I'm sure the Judge would do for a camp gun with the 6 inch barrel and loaded with .410 No. 8s against snakes or for taking a shot at birds on the wing in close. Thing is, Taurus is pushing it as a personal-defense piece.

Given that, if you chose it for a home or personal defense role you might want to load it with No. 4 shot, at least for the first round and perhaps for the second, before switching to .45 LC hollowpoints. Remember what the mission is here; and that your probable range of engagement will be under 7 yards. I don't remember what the rule of thumb on shot spread is, but the figure of 1 inch of spread per yard of travel from the muzzle comes to mind. I believe that means at a range of 7 yards, the pattern will be 7 inches across or less. If the first two shotshell rounds don't deter the perp, the solid bullets will kill him.

At that, your loading is determined by how willing you are to take the chance of "bringing 'em back alive." I read on another site (it was reported by a male ER nurse) that he did not know of a close range hit in the upper body with a 12-gauge shotgun where the person who was shot lived, regardless of the size of the shot in the shell. I know a .410 isn't a 12 gauge, but that still is something to keep in mind when selecting loads for home defense.

TXplt · 01-28-2008, 11:07 AM

Cyrano,

Excellent advice in general.

From the Judge, the shot pattern spreads out quite rapidly. It will cover a man-size silohette at or inside of 21 feet, Number 4 shot is an excellent call, but due to the rifling on the barrel in all bbl lengths it spreads out very rapidly. I'd be careful in taking a shotshell shot outside of 7 yards.

steveI44 · 01-28-2008, 08:09 PM

What is the recoil difference between a .410 and a .44 mag? If it is anywhere similar the second follow up shot might be a little off.

TXplt · 01-29-2008, 08:17 PM

For me, the .410 Bore recoil in the normal weight frame is much less than .44 mag -- about the same as a .357 in 4" bbl with a stout load. In the UL, recoil from the shotshells or the heavy (standard pressure) .45 colt is about the same as a light to medium .44 mag in 4" barrel standard weight .44

nicksguns · 01-30-2008, 11:42 AM

A link to the gun blast test results.
Here Comes the Judge! Taurus .45/410 Revolver

I too have trouble believing any handgun accurate to over a hundred yards.

Would like to know if anyone knows a place to get a pair of exotic grips for the Judge?
Have not been able to find any other than the rubber finger grooved ones from Taurus.
I know its a personal preference thing but I like the look of laminated grips.

TXplt · 01-31-2008, 02:45 PM

You can try eagle grips from their website. Personally, I wouldn't alter the grips--I think they're great. But that's up to you. They do absorb recoil well.

Tasmanian Devil · 03-23-2008, 10:22 PM

Keeping a long story short, I like the Judge, with the 410 buck shot under 15 ft, it'll do.
Here's my story on what a underpowered gun will do. Had to go to Oakland in 1987, carried a .25 cal. Berreta (sp?), driving a 911 Porsche. Conducted my business and went to my car. Street lamps were out, very little visability, but it was like the moon was out. Walked to my car, saw two men walking to me. Saw one man pull out a tire iron out of his full length jacket, at the same time the other man pulled out a manly gun from his jacket, it was a way bigger gun then I had. I was 15 ft from the front of my Porsche, they were 15 ft behind the rear of my Porsche. Approximately 41 ft (?) or a little more. Quickly I thought, tire iron and big gun. I pulled out my mouse gun, with 7 rounds and proceeded to shot at both men (both had coats, it was winter), both dropped the tire iron and the big gun (found out it as a 9mm, kicked it into the sewer) and ran away. I got the hell out of there. I came to the realization, that if I hadn't done anything, I'd end up as another statistic "Man is killed in Oakland, police are looking for his car....". But I did check the newspaper, and there was never any mention about 2 men being shot in Oakland. "Hey Mama, pull this .25 cal bullet out of me!"

These days I carry a 357 Snubby, with a back up in the glove box. And I moved from California to Idaho (Land of the Free and Home of the Brave, where you have the right to carry, in plain sight, any gun you have. Concealed weapon License is only $75.) But the Judge is good, I like 410 Buck shot at 5 feet or 10 feet, makes the perp feel real bad.

DWFan · 04-03-2008, 02:56 PM

Ok, after viewing the Taurus video and the other one, I'm convinced. I'm going to buy one. The "lack of penetration" makes it perfect for use in an apartment scenario where the range to the intruder is going to be nearly point blank and there are people on the other side of the wall. Everyone mentions snakes, but I'm betting it's a good deterent against a Rottweiller or Pit Bull too.
I was told that the .410 slug weighs between 85 and 105gr and is moving about 1200fps from the 6" Judge barrel. Sounds a lot like 9mm or .38 Special +P ballistics to me.

TXplt · 04-03-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWFan

Ok, after viewing the Taurus video and the other one, I'm convinced. I'm going to buy one. The "lack of penetration" makes it perfect for use in an apartment scenario where the range to the intruder is going to be nearly point blank and there are people on the other side of the wall. Everyone mentions snakes, but I'm betting it's a good deterent against a Rottweiller or Pit Bull too.
I was told that the .410 slug weighs between 85 and 105gr and is moving about 1200fps from the 6" Judge barrel. Sounds a lot like 9mm or .38 Special +P ballistics to me.

Best of luck -- I love mine. I might suggest the 3" variants due to ease of handling, but try a few out. Give some thought as to how you want to load it........I'd at least consider a couple of .45's downstream in case the bird/buck/slugs didn't get the job done. The slug for me, like I said, is a bit of an anamoly but might be a good at not over penetrating. Ballistics seem like you said -- hot 38+P or light .357.

Cheers, and good luck.

westernamerican · 07-16-2008, 12:39 PM

Click the link below........

http://dot11net.net/~jiml/Judge.html

mwatson · 07-16-2008, 01:05 PM

I picked up the 3 inch blued model this week. I am going to the range this weekend to shoot it and several other weapons. I am pleased with the bluing and fit and finish. My price in Nrthwest Arkansas was 429.00 tax included.
Mike

TRUE GRIT · 07-16-2008, 01:14 PM

The Judge is not on the California aproved list of firearms so I cant get one. If I could I think it would make a great trail / camp gun, loaded with .410 for snakes along the trail and with 45 colt at night around the camp fire to keep the boogie man away.

01-27-2008, 01:02 PM	#62
nicksguns Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NE Iowa Posts: 2	Taurus Judge Fun I recently bought a "Judge" for $375. Blue 6" I don't know about the self defense issues with the 410. I have shot the 410 with 8 shot at 15 feet and found that it would be deadly to any small varmit at that range. The 410 slug makes a very nasty hole at that range and was very accurate. I have watched a video of a man that tested the Judge and proclaimed the 45 Colt to be accurate to 100 yards and the 410 slug only to 15 yards. I have not had the opportunity to shoot any 45s yet but can say that this gun is a blast to shoot and the reason I bought it was to have fun with and it certainly is that. Hope all the rest of you have as much fun with yours as well

03-23-2008, 10:22 PM	#70
Tasmanian Devil Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, Idaho Posts: 1	Bad neighborhood Keeping a long story short, I like the Judge, with the 410 buck shot under 15 ft, it'll do. Here's my story on what a underpowered gun will do. Had to go to Oakland in 1987, carried a .25 cal. Berreta (sp?), driving a 911 Porsche. Conducted my business and went to my car. Street lamps were out, very little visability, but it was like the moon was out. Walked to my car, saw two men walking to me. Saw one man pull out a tire iron out of his full length jacket, at the same time the other man pulled out a manly gun from his jacket, it was a way bigger gun then I had. I was 15 ft from the front of my Porsche, they were 15 ft behind the rear of my Porsche. Approximately 41 ft (?) or a little more. Quickly I thought, tire iron and big gun. I pulled out my mouse gun, with 7 rounds and proceeded to shot at both men (both had coats, it was winter), both dropped the tire iron and the big gun (found out it as a 9mm, kicked it into the sewer) and ran away. I got the hell out of there. I came to the realization, that if I hadn't done anything, I'd end up as another statistic "Man is killed in Oakland, police are looking for his car....". But I did check the newspaper, and there was never any mention about 2 men being shot in Oakland. "Hey Mama, pull this .25 cal bullet out of me!" These days I carry a 357 Snubby, with a back up in the glove box. And I moved from California to Idaho (Land of the Free and Home of the Brave, where you have the right to carry, in plain sight, any gun you have. Concealed weapon License is only $75.) But the Judge is good, I like 410 Buck shot at 5 feet or 10 feet, makes the perp feel real bad.

07-16-2008, 12:39 PM	#73
westernamerican Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: North Central Texas Posts: 9	Taurus Judge Click the link below........ http://dot11net.net/~jiml/Judge.html

07-16-2008, 01:05 PM	#74
mwatson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Rogers, Arkansas Posts: 236	I picked up the 3 inch blued model this week. I am going to the range this weekend to shoot it and several other weapons. I am pleased with the bluing and fit and finish. My price in Nrthwest Arkansas was 429.00 tax included. Mike __________________ ..............................HOWDY

01-24-2008, 09:43 AM	#61
TXplt Lost in the Ozone Again Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 2,838 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	Yeah....things definitely can change when you get surprised or the paper starts shooting back. The situation you described is not all that uncommon. Some pundits criticizing this revolver in particular (or revolvers in general) haven't come to terms that despite their hi-cap pistols and extensive schooling in arms they can still miss. Don't get me wrong; I'm all for carrying and great training with the gun that's right for you. But one always needs to keep one's limitations in mind. This is a good gun for a close in situation or a family defensive situation where the shooter may be limited in time, light, proficiency, or under considerable pressure. I do alot more shooting than my wife and our home requires a secure but accessable handgun; this fits our situation well. I certainly wouldn't rely on the .410 as a credible stopper, but any hit beats any loud miss any day. Yes, bird shot is for birds and the buck may not penetrate as much as you'd want it to. But a solid hit from either may well stop your threat du jour in its tracks or dissuade it/him/her to pursue other activities immediately. If they're/it's high on something or hell bent on killing YOU, you've got the .45s as a proven stopper. The heavy Buffalo Bore standard press is enough for me in this gun (they make a 255gr Keith and a 200gr Gold Dot HP), and I'd personally stay away from the +Ps unless I knew them to be safe from the mfr. A gun's no different than any other tool; pick the right tool for the right jobs and try not to use a screwdriver to pound nails if you can. Only you can figure out your own situation and if this will fit the bill. Mine give reasonable accuracy (3-4" offhand at 15 yds) with .45 LC and pattern about the same as everyone elses' -- 000 gives about a foot between pellets at 15 yds, printing on a standard silohette. I can't see what purpose the slugs serve other than being a blast to shoot (about as accurate as the .45's with a big bang and a few inches of flame out of the muzzle). The shot spreads out alot faster than it slows down, for me covering a silohette target somewhere between 10 and 20 feet. This is what gives me some pause about using it as a CCW in populated areas unless it was all I had (other than the gun being big). On the other hand, the shot would be alot less of a threat at range than a bullet which misses. Anyway, cheers and good shooting.

01-28-2008, 10:52 AM	#64
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 2,362	My 2 cents. I'm sure the Judge would do for a camp gun with the 6 inch barrel and loaded with .410 No. 8s against snakes or for taking a shot at birds on the wing in close. Thing is, Taurus is pushing it as a personal-defense piece. Given that, if you chose it for a home or personal defense role you might want to load it with No. 4 shot, at least for the first round and perhaps for the second, before switching to .45 LC hollowpoints. Remember what the mission is here; and that your probable range of engagement will be under 7 yards. I don't remember what the rule of thumb on shot spread is, but the figure of 1 inch of spread per yard of travel from the muzzle comes to mind. I believe that means at a range of 7 yards, the pattern will be 7 inches across or less. If the first two shotshell rounds don't deter the perp, the solid bullets will kill him. At that, your loading is determined by how willing you are to take the chance of "bringing 'em back alive." I read on another site (it was reported by a male ER nurse) that he did not know of a close range hit in the upper body with a 12-gauge shotgun where the person who was shot lived, regardless of the size of the shot in the shell. I know a .410 isn't a 12 gauge, but that still is something to keep in mind when selecting loads for home defense.

01-28-2008, 11:07 AM	#65
TXplt Lost in the Ozone Again Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 2,838 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	Cyrano, Excellent advice in general. From the Judge, the shot pattern spreads out quite rapidly. It will cover a man-size silohette at or inside of 21 feet, Number 4 shot is an excellent call, but due to the rifling on the barrel in all bbl lengths it spreads out very rapidly. I'd be careful in taking a shotshell shot outside of 7 yards.

01-28-2008, 08:09 PM	#66
steveI44 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 8	What is the recoil difference between a .410 and a .44 mag? If it is anywhere similar the second follow up shot might be a little off.

01-29-2008, 08:17 PM	#67
TXplt Lost in the Ozone Again Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 2,838 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	For me, the .410 Bore recoil in the normal weight frame is much less than .44 mag -- about the same as a .357 in 4" bbl with a stout load. In the UL, recoil from the shotshells or the heavy (standard pressure) .45 colt is about the same as a light to medium .44 mag in 4" barrel standard weight .44

01-30-2008, 11:42 AM	#68
nicksguns Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NE Iowa Posts: 2	A link to the gun blast test results. Here Comes the Judge! Taurus .45/410 Revolver I too have trouble believing any handgun accurate to over a hundred yards. Would like to know if anyone knows a place to get a pair of exotic grips for the Judge? Have not been able to find any other than the rubber finger grooved ones from Taurus. I know its a personal preference thing but I like the look of laminated grips.

01-31-2008, 02:45 PM	#69
TXplt Lost in the Ozone Again Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 2,838 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	You can try eagle grips from their website. Personally, I wouldn't alter the grips--I think they're great. But that's up to you. They do absorb recoil well.

04-03-2008, 02:56 PM	#71
DWFan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: N. Texas Posts: 698 Blog Entries: 2	Ok, after viewing the Taurus video and the other one, I'm convinced. I'm going to buy one. The "lack of penetration" makes it perfect for use in an apartment scenario where the range to the intruder is going to be nearly point blank and there are people on the other side of the wall. Everyone mentions snakes, but I'm betting it's a good deterent against a Rottweiller or Pit Bull too. I was told that the .410 slug weighs between 85 and 105gr and is moving about 1200fps from the 6" Judge barrel. Sounds a lot like 9mm or .38 Special +P ballistics to me.

07-16-2008, 01:14 PM	#75
TRUE GRIT Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: North East Los Angeles Posts: 186	The Judge is not on the California aproved list of firearms so I cant get one. If I could I think it would make a great trail / camp gun, loaded with .410 for snakes along the trail and with 45 colt at night around the camp fire to keep the boogie man away.