What is your deffinition of S-hitting the fan

Doglips · 04-14-2002, 08:13 PM

Like everyone else on this board Ive been reading peoples input on how they believe the end is near...be it the invasion of Iraq or Revalations comeing too pass. The question is, what would you consider the most likely ST hiting the fan situation in YOUR area...on that note what is your #1 choice of St - hitting the fan firearm.

FOr me in sunny Cocoa Florida we are dependent on the Space center jobs (Big $$) and tourest $$ for our econamy. We have a big drug problem, crime ect and a lot of people on public assistance. My concern is that should the economy plumit...or gas prices get to high..that the civil unrest would create an tempory state of anarcy..riots looting ect...I figure a moth or so before Milatary troops would get it under control.
My S-hiting the fan firearms for now are SKS, Hi-Point 9mm and shot guns...also a collection of pistols. I see my self defending the home and family...for that month or so it takes for order to be restored.

jerry · 04-14-2002, 08:24 PM

I believe the correct terminology is feces hitting the oscillating device. i also believe economic concerns have greater impact in criminal behavior compared to 30+ years ago. I'll stick with my Y2K package; 147 grn 308 ball, .45 acp (1911) w/ .38 back up, & 12 ga shotgun w/# 4 buck. This is not everyday defense posture it's any thing goes, not worrying about shooting through dry wall etc.

Dale · 04-14-2002, 09:52 PM

Mine would be me sleeping through it, waking up, looking out the window and seeing NOTHING. LOL

wes · 04-14-2002, 10:34 PM

My biggest concern is not the civil un-rest,but the government declaring martial law because of it. Make sure you have PLENTY of ammo,food,and trading materials on hand. Just my .02.

Oxford · 04-14-2002, 10:46 PM

Well here goes for what I think would cause the most trouble in the Kansas City area.

1. The Chiefs football team and the Royals baseball team getting moved out of town.

2. The roads leading to Lake of the Ozark, Smithville Lake and other local lakes all being blocked on weekends for all those boaters and those going to the "party cove."

3. Removal of all the Plaza Shopping Center lights at Christmas time.

4. The forced merging of all suburban schools with the defunct Kansas City, Missouri school system which has spent close to $2,000,000,000 of Missourian's tax money and are still about to be closed by the MO state Department of Education for not educating their students to a satisfactory level.

5. Johnson County residents (considered by many as the wealthy suburban K.C. area) all seeking inner city homes, or inner city residents all moving to Johnson County.

6. The four casino's floating in moats (like a boat in a pond)near the Missouri River all closing down. Now who would take all those poor folks hard earned money?

7. I-70, I-29, and I-35 highways all close down for repairs at the same time. Now who would fill the coffers of business without the travelers and conventioneers?

8. All the golf, tennis, and country clubs being closed immediately. People might have to talk to their neighbors for a change...or go to a shooting range.

9. The American Royal Lifestock and Cattle show being moved out of town. That would really shake up the "old guard."

and 10. If the CCW lobby in Missouri was successful who/where would you buy your guns?

Oxford

BattleRifleG3 · 04-15-2002, 12:00 AM

I agree with Wes on that one.
But just in case you do have problems like rioting plundering mobs of ransacking vandals...
I think it depends on location and expected battlefield. For indoor combat, a pistol caliber weapon, either a pistol of sufficient power, or a rifle with greater capacity and accuracy (9mm is in my opinion insufficient in a pistol, but sufficient with the greater velocity produced in a rifle.) Examples would be a Ruger PC9 or PC4 (9mm would be easier to get and have larger, less expensive mags), a Cobray 9mm or 45 ACP, or for folk with richer blood than me, an AR or HK clone.
For urban outdoor stuff on a larger scale, I'd go with an intermediate rifle cartridge with high mag capacity. This means Mini-14 for those who swear by them and find them accurate enough, but AR-15 and AK-47 derivative for most of us. I suppose an M1 Carbine might fit in this category too. My choice here is an AK-magged SKS, which would be able to take com-bloc ammo and mags if they're the enemy, and is something I have practice and comfort with. Another nice thing about it is that you have to know how to insert the mag, so if someone gets their hands on it, they'll spend a while trying to get it to fit like I did the first time. Biggest mag I use is a 40, but 30s are easy to find, and bigger ones are out there.
If one needs to fight against equipment (ie they drive stolen cars into your house), or if you have to fight through walls, or in woods, anything requiring maximum penetration, or over long ranges, the weapon to use is a full powered rifle, meaning 308. That means HK-91 or clone, FAL of some sort, M14, or AR-10.
As much as I think shotguns are competent weapons, their limited mag capacity and, at least with pumps, less rapid fire rate, makes them more suited to more isolated incidents like a home invasion. I have a feeling in a riot you'd empty fast and have to grab for another one with greater mag capacity and higher rate of fire.

If you're talking a larger scale scenario like a war on our soil, you'd want to take into account which powers are likely to be involved, what the battlefield would be, what would give you the advantage over other forces, and what military ammunition would be available. I concluded that 308 is the first choice in this regard, since it's used by many nations, is the most powerful, often the most accurate, is commercially common, and rifles in it are affordable. Overkill is better than underkill. My location in a temperate zone with plenty of forest is a factor too. After having a 308 rifle and ammo stash, I think 7.62x39mm is a good second choice, being sufficient for many other uses. Ammo is cheap enough to buy in bulk and shoot enough to get familiar with the weapons. Also easier to use, especially after starting with 308. 30cal cleaning equipment and some reloading supplies will interchange too. The rifles are generally the most affordable too. I could also see a pistol caliber as a second choice, for more discrete action. I'd look to an AR-15 or similar 223 weapon as a last choice, as such a weapon would likely be readily available. The only superior feature of it over the others is accuracy (sometimes) and lighter recoil. Plus, they're the most commonly produced of the above, and they won't dry up as soon as the others would.

In case you can't tell, I'm slowly building up a collection that I hope someday will be expansive and inclusive. For now, I'm sticking to the essentials.

04-15-2002, 09:17 AM

The U.N. flying our air space under the guise of protecting us.

Then moving in to "help us"

Oh, dang thats already going on!

"Put down yer books and pick up a gun...
We're gonna have a whole lot of fun"

Bear · 04-15-2002, 10:25 PM

Out here in Montana where I live, its only 1.5 miles to a MAJOR nuke base.. WE got more nukes here than people. so if it hits the fan real big we'll all be blind an burning...if not from the incomming but from all the fires started by the outgoing birds. Heck, even terrorist wont come here, the general population is better armed than most militarys around the world and just crazy enough to fight back unlike most "civilized" folk...

AR-tim · 04-15-2002, 11:30 PM

There are many different scenarios where you could call it the feces passing through the fan blades..Basically any situation where I would have to use my firearms in a defensive situation. A good example would be any time I really had to protect home/family in a defensive situaton. Also, from the sounds of other posts, this is on a larger scale than one or two people forcibly trying to entering your house; say a large scale riot. I would have to say my AR-15 would have a front row seat. My heavy barreled .308 Savage would be there to reach out to someone. Then my Glock 17, or Ithaca 16 gauge would answer the door. Sorry this isn't really my definition of poo hitting the fan, its more of what I would do. Better not release all my ideas for that rainy day when it all goes down......

-Tim

Calvin · 04-16-2002, 08:49 AM

I'm kinda in the same situation as Bear, but live close to Wright-Patterson AFB. If the aggresors were terrorists, I would think there are enough miltary personnel to take care of the problem. But, just in case they don't/can't, I'm pretty well prepared for them. All I can say is, if the terrorists only work in cells of 4-10, they would be extremely wise to steer clear of this address. And, as Tim has wisely stated, I'm not releasing much on my ideas, either.

Paul I · 04-16-2002, 07:04 PM

If you had civil unrest would still have to go to work. If was bad but not that bad and you still had to work I would have go with a conceled pistol because of work. More conceled the better.

MangesMade · 04-17-2002, 01:58 AM

When I think of ST Hitting the Fan, I think of the Sunday afternoon at the Zoo, My Grandfather standing there in his nice sunday go to meeting Suit, looking at the Hippo which at that very moment began to have a bowel movement. When they do they wag their tail back and forth like a fan and sling ST everywhere...all over my Grandfather. Oil Well, That day the ST hit the fan.

Stopper · 04-17-2002, 03:26 PM

Last night the sound came after I got caught downing beers with my friends in the drive way. Not the same scenario as most have talked about, but it was the same for me. Couldn't dig a hole fast or deep enough. I would rather of had to fight Mike Tyson than go through that.

04-14-2002, 08:24 PM	#2
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,882 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	I believe the correct terminology is feces hitting the oscillating device. i also believe economic concerns have greater impact in criminal behavior compared to 30+ years ago. I'll stick with my Y2K package; 147 grn 308 ball, .45 acp (1911) w/ .38 back up, & 12 ga shotgun w/# 4 buck. This is not everyday defense posture it's any thing goes, not worrying about shooting through dry wall etc. __________________ I'm a down home back woods redneck

04-14-2002, 09:52 PM	#3
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	Mine would be me sleeping through it, waking up, looking out the window and seeing NOTHING. LOL __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me

04-14-2002, 10:46 PM	#5
Oxford Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gladstone, Missouri Posts: 13,023 Blog Entries: 4	Well here goes for what I think would cause the most trouble in the Kansas City area. 1. The Chiefs football team and the Royals baseball team getting moved out of town. 2. The roads leading to Lake of the Ozark, Smithville Lake and other local lakes all being blocked on weekends for all those boaters and those going to the "party cove." 3. Removal of all the Plaza Shopping Center lights at Christmas time. 4. The forced merging of all suburban schools with the defunct Kansas City, Missouri school system which has spent close to $2,000,000,000 of Missourian's tax money and are still about to be closed by the MO state Department of Education for not educating their students to a satisfactory level. 5. Johnson County residents (considered by many as the wealthy suburban K.C. area) all seeking inner city homes, or inner city residents all moving to Johnson County. 6. The four casino's floating in moats (like a boat in a pond)near the Missouri River all closing down. Now who would take all those poor folks hard earned money? 7. I-70, I-29, and I-35 highways all close down for repairs at the same time. Now who would fill the coffers of business without the travelers and conventioneers? 8. All the golf, tennis, and country clubs being closed immediately. People might have to talk to their neighbors for a change...or go to a shooting range. 9. The American Royal Lifestock and Cattle show being moved out of town. That would really shake up the "old guard." and 10. If the CCW lobby in Missouri was successful who/where would you buy your guns? Oxford __________________ "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right". Last edited by Oxford; 04-15-2002 at 08:44 AM.

04-15-2002, 12:00 AM	#6
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	I agree with Wes on that one. But just in case you do have problems like rioting plundering mobs of ransacking vandals... I think it depends on location and expected battlefield. For indoor combat, a pistol caliber weapon, either a pistol of sufficient power, or a rifle with greater capacity and accuracy (9mm is in my opinion insufficient in a pistol, but sufficient with the greater velocity produced in a rifle.) Examples would be a Ruger PC9 or PC4 (9mm would be easier to get and have larger, less expensive mags), a Cobray 9mm or 45 ACP, or for folk with richer blood than me, an AR or HK clone. For urban outdoor stuff on a larger scale, I'd go with an intermediate rifle cartridge with high mag capacity. This means Mini-14 for those who swear by them and find them accurate enough, but AR-15 and AK-47 derivative for most of us. I suppose an M1 Carbine might fit in this category too. My choice here is an AK-magged SKS, which would be able to take com-bloc ammo and mags if they're the enemy, and is something I have practice and comfort with. Another nice thing about it is that you have to know how to insert the mag, so if someone gets their hands on it, they'll spend a while trying to get it to fit like I did the first time. Biggest mag I use is a 40, but 30s are easy to find, and bigger ones are out there. If one needs to fight against equipment (ie they drive stolen cars into your house), or if you have to fight through walls, or in woods, anything requiring maximum penetration, or over long ranges, the weapon to use is a full powered rifle, meaning 308. That means HK-91 or clone, FAL of some sort, M14, or AR-10. As much as I think shotguns are competent weapons, their limited mag capacity and, at least with pumps, less rapid fire rate, makes them more suited to more isolated incidents like a home invasion. I have a feeling in a riot you'd empty fast and have to grab for another one with greater mag capacity and higher rate of fire. If you're talking a larger scale scenario like a war on our soil, you'd want to take into account which powers are likely to be involved, what the battlefield would be, what would give you the advantage over other forces, and what military ammunition would be available. I concluded that 308 is the first choice in this regard, since it's used by many nations, is the most powerful, often the most accurate, is commercially common, and rifles in it are affordable. Overkill is better than underkill. My location in a temperate zone with plenty of forest is a factor too. After having a 308 rifle and ammo stash, I think 7.62x39mm is a good second choice, being sufficient for many other uses. Ammo is cheap enough to buy in bulk and shoot enough to get familiar with the weapons. Also easier to use, especially after starting with 308. 30cal cleaning equipment and some reloading supplies will interchange too. The rifles are generally the most affordable too. I could also see a pistol caliber as a second choice, for more discrete action. I'd look to an AR-15 or similar 223 weapon as a last choice, as such a weapon would likely be readily available. The only superior feature of it over the others is accuracy (sometimes) and lighter recoil. Plus, they're the most commonly produced of the above, and they won't dry up as soon as the others would. In case you can't tell, I'm slowly building up a collection that I hope someday will be expansive and inclusive. For now, I'm sticking to the essentials. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

04-15-2002, 11:30 PM	#9
AR-tim Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: WI Posts: 307	There are many different scenarios where you could call it the feces passing through the fan blades..Basically any situation where I would have to use my firearms in a defensive situation. A good example would be any time I really had to protect home/family in a defensive situaton. Also, from the sounds of other posts, this is on a larger scale than one or two people forcibly trying to entering your house; say a large scale riot. I would have to say my AR-15 would have a front row seat. My heavy barreled .308 Savage would be there to reach out to someone. Then my Glock 17, or Ithaca 16 gauge would answer the door. Sorry this isn't really my definition of poo hitting the fan, its more of what I would do. Better not release all my ideas for that rainy day when it all goes down...... -Tim __________________ "Unfortunately, the Army has revealed no plans to develop an air-droppable, laser-guided, self-chilling keg of beer!" From "Airborne" by Tom Clancy

04-14-2002, 08:13 PM	#1
Doglips Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cocoa Florida Posts: 9,089	What is your deffinition of S-hitting the fan Like everyone else on this board Ive been reading peoples input on how they believe the end is near...be it the invasion of Iraq or Revalations comeing too pass. The question is, what would you consider the most likely ST hiting the fan situation in YOUR area...on that note what is your #1 choice of St - hitting the fan firearm. FOr me in sunny Cocoa Florida we are dependent on the Space center jobs (Big $$) and tourest $$ for our econamy. We have a big drug problem, crime ect and a lot of people on public assistance. My concern is that should the economy plumit...or gas prices get to high..that the civil unrest would create an tempory state of anarcy..riots looting ect...I figure a moth or so before Milatary troops would get it under control. My S-hiting the fan firearms for now are SKS, Hi-Point 9mm and shot guns...also a collection of pistols. I see my self defending the home and family...for that month or so it takes for order to be restored.

04-14-2002, 10:34 PM	#4
wes Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Loveland Co Posts: 1,906	My biggest concern is not the civil un-rest,but the government declaring martial law because of it. Make sure you have PLENTY of ammo,food,and trading materials on hand. Just my .02.

04-15-2002, 09:17 AM	#7
Armorer Guest Posts: n/a	The U.N. flying our air space under the guise of protecting us. Then moving in to "help us" Oh, dang thats already going on! "Put down yer books and pick up a gun... We're gonna have a whole lot of fun"

04-15-2002, 10:25 PM	#8
Bear Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montana Posts: 17	Out here in Montana where I live, its only 1.5 miles to a MAJOR nuke base.. WE got more nukes here than people. so if it hits the fan real big we'll all be blind an burning...if not from the incomming but from all the fires started by the outgoing birds. Heck, even terrorist wont come here, the general population is better armed than most militarys around the world and just crazy enough to fight back unlike most "civilized" folk...

04-16-2002, 08:49 AM	#10
Calvin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,000	I'm kinda in the same situation as Bear, but live close to Wright-Patterson AFB. If the aggresors were terrorists, I would think there are enough miltary personnel to take care of the problem. But, just in case they don't/can't, I'm pretty well prepared for them. All I can say is, if the terrorists only work in cells of 4-10, they would be extremely wise to steer clear of this address. And, as Tim has wisely stated, I'm not releasing much on my ideas, either. __________________ If you don't like cops, call your local crackhead for help next time!

04-16-2002, 07:04 PM	#11
Paul I Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 41	If you had civil unrest would still have to go to work. If was bad but not that bad and you still had to work I would have go with a conceled pistol because of work. More conceled the better.

04-17-2002, 01:58 AM	#12
MangesMade Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: N.E. Florida Posts: 133	When I think of ST Hitting the Fan, I think of the Sunday afternoon at the Zoo, My Grandfather standing there in his nice sunday go to meeting Suit, looking at the Hippo which at that very moment began to have a bowel movement. When they do they wag their tail back and forth like a fan and sling ST everywhere...all over my Grandfather. Oil Well, That day the ST hit the fan. __________________ "Keep 'em Razor Sharp" Last edited by MangesMade; 04-17-2002 at 02:00 AM.

04-17-2002, 03:26 PM	#13
Stopper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kansass Posts: 2,211 Images: 1	Last night the sound came after I got caught downing beers with my friends in the drive way. Not the same scenario as most have talked about, but it was the same for me. Couldn't dig a hole fast or deep enough. I would rather of had to fight Mike Tyson than go through that. __________________ They should have stopped at "Congress shall make no law"