[BarryHalls]

Not for me to handle, but more than there should be.

I think most of you are familiar with my Sweetie. I've been plastering the site with enough pictures .

She still kicks noticeably more than my friends factory original 20" Saiga. . .

The only differences I can discern are that the Saiga weighs slightly more unloaded (with accessories) and has a much heavier recoil spring.

I have my suspicions about why my baby jerks and kicks so much but I want to hear some fresh ideas from you fellas!

help?

[Ranger-6]

If your sweetie wants a shotgun, get her 410.
If she wants a pistol, get her a .380 Auto.
If she wants a rifle, get she a .22 Hornet.

[BarryHalls]

LOL, my sweetie is a MAK-90, she's got a top not muzzle brake and still kicks noticeably more than a factory Saiga with no recoil reducing modifications.

Something is amiss, and I want to get that recoil down.

This is supposed to be a rapid fire rifle!

[jmp8927]

Try replacing the recoil spring. Your carrier might be smacking the rear of the receiver.

[Mantrid_Brizon]

Almost every gun has aftermarket recoil buffers available, and a stiff spring could be replaced to make the recoil a little easier to handle.

[BigEd63]

Having 4 MAK's myself bought from used to like new recoil spring might be worn.

Another thought here are we talking felt recoil? Or actual muzzle jump/rise? How well does your stock fit you?

Does your buddy have a simialr stock? Never mind his is factory stock right?

[BarryHalls]

Stock fits me just right, is more in line with the muzzle than the factory Saiga stock. Rise, inconsistent jerk, shoulder punch. It's worse in every way than the factory Saiga.

I should also mention that Sweetie has the grip-pod and we were propping the factory Saiga on a cooler, and it was still faster back to the target with less punch to the shoulder.

[SasquatchSniper]

Strange...do they both have AK74 brakes? I was finally able to try out my MAK with my new brake and stock installed and there was a HUGE difference in recoil! Before I would get a mark on my shoulder but with the new parts the recoil may be less than my AR15 and my shoulder was mark free. I need some crush washers or something though to get the brake properly/permanently fitted.

[BarryHalls]

Saiga has no brake. Totally factory except for the side mount and a big scope.

Oh, it's a LOT more recoil than an AR with a bird-cage. I can't tell a difference from before I put the brake on.

Arsenal USA 24mm 74/100 style brake. Supposed to be the best for rapid fire. My rate of fire is better than before the brake, but not close to what I expected.

[jmp8927]

Well to start with, recoil will never be eliminated and you have to remember that you're also dealing with inertia from the piston as well as the carrier. It will never be comparable to an AR-15 just because of the nature of the beast. It still sounds like you have a worn recoil spring. Saigas are 100% new. Yours is a decade+ old. Grab a new recoil spring and see if it doesn't fix it.

[BarryHalls]

That was my first thought. Everyone told me that the recoil would be like an AR. which is feasible given the difference in weight of the body, but it's not even close this thing still kicks more than I think an uncompensated AK should.

I see some new springs around for $2-3. I'm gonna snag one. It's gotta help. It's the only difference that should have an effect on recoil compared to the Saiga.

I'm afraid to buy one though. I either pay $25 or wonder whether or not it'll be as new and stiff as the Saiga one.

[ChaZam]

^^

If that doesn't help you need to promptly relinquish your mancard to the appropriate authorities.....

[BarryHalls]

Hey now, first thing I said was not that I can't handle it. It should just be less than a monte carlo stock, uncompensated Saiga, but it's MORE!

Something is wrong. My baby isn't what she should be. That's what bothers me.

[BarryHalls]

PS

For crying out loud I'm a 12 gauge man. I duck and goose hunt. Now, I'm always looking to take some more bite out of my 3.5" goose loads. Those monsters make that AK feel like a BB gun.

Been shooting the 12 since I could hold it up!

[writerinmo]

Pick up a Mosin M44 or Chinese T53, shoot ten rounds through that and then shoot the AK.

Seriously though, I'd change the recoil spring first, it's not like it's a huge expenditure, and not knowing how many rounds of recoil the one in it has absorbed, a good place to start.

[Big Dog]

Maybe add a recoil pad.....?

[BarryHalls]

I bought her "New in the box" But she had some US parts put on. She had probably been fired, but showed NO signs of it, so the spring shouldn't be just worn out but it feels like half the pull of the Saiga spring.

My immediate susicion was what has been stated here. The carrier is smacking the rear trunion giving me,more rearward push and jerkier muzzle motion.

[Cyrano]

Barry, if you want to get the recoil down, after replacing the spring I'd try this.

1. Lose that mass-production shovel-type muzzle brake and put on a REAL, slotted muzzle brake. It'll make your MAK noisy as hell, but it will take about 25% - 30% of the recoil out.

2. Install a slotted rubber recoil pad, the same kind you see on some shotguns. Those do an excellent job of eating up the felt recoil. I think the reduction is somewhere around 50%.

These may make your AK look a little odd, but it will reduce the recoil to the point you will barely notice it. Should improve your accuracy some as well.

[BigEd63]

Barry- I forgot to ask what is the length of pull of the stocks?

And, are you shooting your AK like a "American" or a "Russian"?

This is not a trick question. Here in the USA we tend to shoot all rifles like they are target rifles. That's also the general training doctrine for the US Military for many generations now.

In Russia the stock design goes along with their training doctrine on it's use.

Only fairly recently have we, the USA, have changed in that direction. Just look at the but stock profile of an M4 vs. an M16A2. The M4 stock changd the ergonomics better for shooting off hand or on the move. While the M16A2 stock was part of a push to make the M16 more effective at longer distances.

Now back to the AK. As best as I can describe: It's realy meant to be shot with the shooter more squared to the target, or enemy. With the shooter in a more "combative" stance.

Now look at the Saiga by comparision it's fitted with aa "American" pattern sporter stock for a hunter/target shooter in a typical, for us, off hand or bench rest target stance. So it feels more natural to us.

[BarryHalls]

Quote:      

Arsenal USA 24mm 74/100 style brake. Supposed to be the best for rapid fire.

That's what I have. I think it's all down to the recoil spring.

I can manage it. It's just not what it should be. I'll do whatever I can to improve it without lengthening the butt-stock.

Given that the only difference I could tell between my MAK and the Saiga was the saiga had an extra couple of ounces and about 2x the spring stiffness, I expect a spring to fix it.

Now, does anyone know where to order an unissued spring, JUST the spring? K-VAR has east german ones for $3, but their minimum order is $5 or so . . . I could just get 2! haha!