SAR3 Chamber pressure?

TeachMeAboutGun · 01-22-2005, 11:02 PM

I have a question concerning Romanian made SAR3 in .223 or 5.56 x 45 mm caliber.

Several gunsmiths have refused to perform what I consider straight forward upgrading job for me. I only want to have the following done:

- removal of original front sight assembly and replaced with the AK74 (Romanian)
- installation of AK-74 muzzle break (Romanian)
- Romoval of all original fire control
- installation of Red Star Arms fire control
- removal of original furniture
- parkerizing finish
- installation of Bulgarian AK-74 furniture

O.K. parts count is covered. Not to worry. It's not even an issue. What is at issue is that they are saying that:

1. Romanian made AKs use low gauge steel for receiver. As a result, it might not withstand the pressure produce by the cartridge.

2. Also, they are saying that the weapon was never designed to take this high pressure.

Simply put, they are saying that it is unsafe to operate this weapon since it is in the .223 caliber.

Are they right or these men are yahoos who don't know what they are talking about? Can someone kindly respond either here or write me by e-mail?
kullavan@core.com

Thank you for taking your time.

Yours,

PK

BattleRifleG3 · 01-22-2005, 11:59 PM

Welcome to Gunandgame.com!

The SAR-3 is one of many AKs successfully chambered in 223 Remington/5.56 NATO. I have yet to hear of a single catastrophic failure. It should also be known that the receiver of the AK does not withstand any pressure related to the cartridge, the front trunion (the block into which the bolt locks) does.

While the pressure of the 5.56/223 round is higher than 7.62x39mm the standard AK round, the case is thinner and thus there is more metal in every respect to sustain this pressure. The diameter is smaller, resulting in a lower cross sectional area and thus a lower rearward force on the bolt. Even so, the AK is overdesigned in every way I can think of. It is not too big a stretch to put a slightly more powerful round in it.

The AK design has been stretched to take even 308 Winchester in a standard length action on a standard weight receiver. The bolt and trunion did have to be enlarged for this, but not by as much as one might think.

The SAR-3 is a production firearm. If your smiths say it is unsafe, they're disagreeing with engineers all over the world. I'm sure they're not ignorant at all, but I would think they would defer to judgements of the people who designed the guns.

The Saiga 223 is another AK in that round that comes to mind. I have one and it is heavier than my AR-15 in the same round, and I suspect thicker in every way. As far as I know, far more AR-15s blow up than AKs, in any caliber.

Hope this helps! Come again, and come often!

willypete · 01-23-2005, 08:43 AM

yep my gunsmith hasnt got a clue when it comes to AKs. most gunsmiths seem to be trained to work mainly on hunting weapons. most if not all of those repairs that you listed are pretty easy to do yourself

tommy · 01-25-2005, 03:08 PM

speakin of guns blowin up. how many times have you heard of an ar blowing up?? just wondering is this a safety issue with ar's.

mauser88 · 01-28-2005, 12:00 PM

Send it to AK-USA for the work. Chris will do a super job. www.ak-103.com

01-22-2005, 11:02 PM	#1
TeachMeAboutGun Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 6	SAR3 Chamber pressure? I have a question concerning Romanian made SAR3 in .223 or 5.56 x 45 mm caliber. Several gunsmiths have refused to perform what I consider straight forward upgrading job for me. I only want to have the following done: - removal of original front sight assembly and replaced with the AK74 (Romanian) - installation of AK-74 muzzle break (Romanian) - Romoval of all original fire control - installation of Red Star Arms fire control - removal of original furniture - parkerizing finish - installation of Bulgarian AK-74 furniture O.K. parts count is covered. Not to worry. It's not even an issue. What is at issue is that they are saying that: 1. Romanian made AKs use low gauge steel for receiver. As a result, it might not withstand the pressure produce by the cartridge. 2. Also, they are saying that the weapon was never designed to take this high pressure. Simply put, they are saying that it is unsafe to operate this weapon since it is in the .223 caliber. Are they right or these men are yahoos who don't know what they are talking about? Can someone kindly respond either here or write me by e-mail? kullavan@core.com Thank you for taking your time. Yours, PK

01-22-2005, 11:59 PM	#2
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	Welcome to Gunandgame.com! The SAR-3 is one of many AKs successfully chambered in 223 Remington/5.56 NATO. I have yet to hear of a single catastrophic failure. It should also be known that the receiver of the AK does not withstand any pressure related to the cartridge, the front trunion (the block into which the bolt locks) does. While the pressure of the 5.56/223 round is higher than 7.62x39mm the standard AK round, the case is thinner and thus there is more metal in every respect to sustain this pressure. The diameter is smaller, resulting in a lower cross sectional area and thus a lower rearward force on the bolt. Even so, the AK is overdesigned in every way I can think of. It is not too big a stretch to put a slightly more powerful round in it. The AK design has been stretched to take even 308 Winchester in a standard length action on a standard weight receiver. The bolt and trunion did have to be enlarged for this, but not by as much as one might think. The SAR-3 is a production firearm. If your smiths say it is unsafe, they're disagreeing with engineers all over the world. I'm sure they're not ignorant at all, but I would think they would defer to judgements of the people who designed the guns. The Saiga 223 is another AK in that round that comes to mind. I have one and it is heavier than my AR-15 in the same round, and I suspect thicker in every way. As far as I know, far more AR-15s blow up than AKs, in any caliber. Hope this helps! Come again, and come often! __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

01-23-2005, 08:43 AM	#3
willypete Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: texas Posts: 51	yep my gunsmith hasnt got a clue when it comes to AKs. most gunsmiths seem to be trained to work mainly on hunting weapons. most if not all of those repairs that you listed are pretty easy to do yourself

01-25-2005, 03:08 PM	#4
tommy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: schriever la Posts: 4,030 Images: 6	speakin of guns blowin up. how many times have you heard of an ar blowing up?? just wondering is this a safety issue with ar's.

01-28-2005, 12:00 PM	#5
mauser88 Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 26	Send it to AK-USA for the work. Chris will do a super job. www.ak-103.com