MANY things stop 308 bullets, too, and

shooting at what you can't SEE is a good way to run out of ammo. Especially when you are only carrying HALF as much ammo in the first place (as is always the case with 308 vs 223) :-) You can fire 100 rds at a car, and never touch the man hiding behind it, rather frequently. N Hollywood proved that. Those bozos fired many hundreds of .30 cal rds, hit only 8 cops ,and never killed a one of them. With 20 rds of carefully fired 223, they'd have done a LOT more damage, count on that. In fact,if they'd CAREFULLY fired 5-6 rds of 223, early on, they'd have gotten away.

[AR-tim]

Having attended a LEGAL car shoot, I would think twice before hiding behind one. The only area I would TRY (cause I am not a midget) would be the engine area. We fired a load of ammo at this car, and it looked like swiss cheese. The engine did a fair job of stopping the rounds though. That is not a very big area, all things considered. You also have to consider ricochets (spelling?) and bullet fragments coming at you too.

Who are you shooting at behind these cars???

As for that robbery, I think they were there trying to get away with their loot, by using "covering fire". I do not think they were there to kill police officers (I am not defending them one bit). From what I saw, they were spraying their AK's like a water hose, to keep people down. You almost sound disappointed they didn't kill more police officers...??? Speaking of bank robberies and .223 automatic rifles, you must love the movie HEAT.

[Lonegun1894]

I've seen .308 go through cars. >223 doesnt have the penetration, but you sometimes get lucky. Also, there was a shooting here about 10 years ago. A couple gang members decided to do a drive by. The home owner returned fire with an SKS, and put several bullets through the trunk, back seat, backseat occupants, front seats, and front seat occupants. His rounds lodged in the dash. He got questioned about why he shot while they were fleeing, but i dont remember them doing anything beyond that. This was the lowly 7.62x39. Any guesses about what .308 would have done? We disabled several engines with 7.62 nato fire, to the surprize of the vehicle occupants while overseas. Does that qualify as a "legal car shoot"?
Paul

[SilverRun]

I must have missed what started this post? I don't see why we are discussing this. Anyway, both the .223 and the 308 will go through a car, but the 308 will do it better. Now that we have established that, what is the point you are trying to make? Why do you seem disapointed that no cops were killed by the bank robbers?

[Big Dog]

A little background is in order here. Poor little 'ohyeah' was a young man with an attitude problem and had read too many gun books, who has become a legend in his own mind and a recurring troll on many gun boards. In his mind, the .223 round and the AR15 were THE be-all and end-all of rifles - you were stupid to use ANYTHING else.
He told us that many times.
He sails under many names, and still pops up from time to time, makes a nuisance of himself, then gets banned again.
Pity him.

[rebel727]

As a once junkyard owner(in the 70's) I've shot up hundreds of cars. You'd be surprised but the lowly .22 LR will penetrate both doors if you hit it in the right place and I'm talking about the old heavy bodied sedans of the 50's and 60's. From 50 yds. they'll go through the windshield and still have enough oomph to penetrate the front seat back. The ONLY part of a car that will stop any hi powered rifle round is the engine block and transmission. Don't even think about hiding behind the rear wheels.

Originally Posted by ohyeah

type that make any sense are the 20 ga gas op autos, with a good recoil pad, so that you can use readily available, 3/4 oz skeet loads to bring new women and kids into the shooting sports. Set up a staked-down clay pigeon thrower to produce easy, "staightaway floaters" for the novices to hit, and they will be hooked on shooting in short order. Then have them graduate to scoped 22 autorifles, on reactive metal targets, then go to iron sights, then 22 handguns, and you will have done a very good thing for the shooting sports

Todays 7/8oz, pie crimped, shot collar, piston wad, hardened, plated shot, etc, 20 ga OUTPERFORMS the blackpowder 10 ga of the 1800's, guys. The 3" 30 ga mag, 1 1/4 oz loads, in lead, outperform the 3" 12 ga loads with steel shot, too. Yet we know that those "other" loads sufficed, so the 20ga suffices, too.

No attacker is going to be able to TELL the difference between having 20 #3 buckshot pellets(of a 20 ga, 2 3/4" load) pass thru his chest, and the 24 #4 pellets of a 12 ga. 20 ga slugs are legal for deer in many areas. The 3" 20 ga slug has the same performance as the factory 45-70 load, given that the 20 ga is half again as much frontal area. :-) So, either the 3" 20 ga is plenty, or the 45-70 aint MUCH. Take your pick.

:insane: :insane: :insane: