Has anyone here used Winchester 7.62x54R?

MosinDave · 09-17-2006, 05:11 PM

I wanna take my Mosins deer hunting this year and I just came home with a box of Winchester/Sellier & Bellot 180gr soft point ammo. Have any of you had any good/bad experiences with this ammo? How well does the bullet expand?
Is this stuff of higher quality for hunting than the Igman stuff I see for sale on AIM's site? All input is welcomed.

killer · 09-17-2006, 06:24 PM

I can't comment but what is the AIM"S site? I googled it but got nothing. I'm trying to research all I can about Mosins since I am a virgin about to purchase my "first".

.22guy · 09-17-2006, 06:41 PM

I believe he's talking about aimsurplus.com

MosinDave · 09-17-2006, 07:03 PM

Yea, what .22 guy said.
Killer, I'm warning you now they are addictive

Heres the best sites on the net for Mosin research that I have found:
7.62x54r.net
Mosin Nagant
These 2 sites alone have TONS of info on all that is Mosin Nagant. I'm debating on whether I want to take the Finnish M91 or the Russian M38 on my first outing this season...

DWARREN123 · 09-17-2006, 08:38 PM

Mil-surp, it's fun !

Pumpkinheaver · 09-17-2006, 08:59 PM

I read somewhere that the win 7.62X54 stuff is made by S&B. Don't know anything about it.

MosinDave · 09-17-2006, 09:29 PM

Yep, it's all the same stuff. In fact, 4 out of the 20 rounds in the "Winchester" box are labeled S&B! LoL I still can't find any reviews of it anywhere on the net though... guess I might just have to do one myself :lucky:

killer · 09-17-2006, 09:54 PM

I've got two questions regarding the term "laminate" and "unissued" with the mosin nagant.

It appears a "laminated" stock is the same thing that hit big on our rifle market about 20 years ago? They couldn't have had the same high tech glue available as we do. How do they hold up after all these years? Is a laminate the way to go?

Also I found a place advertising "unissued" rifles but doesn't that mean they could just be rifles refurbished at an arsenal with new parts. The reciever was maybe cleaned up? I'm confused. I mean am I getting a rifle that has for 60 years been packed away in comsmoline unfired? Never issued to a troop?

MosinDave · 09-18-2006, 08:20 AM

Well, the laminated stocks on Mosin Nagants are really nothing more than plywood in a sense. It allowed them to use inferior woods compressed together to make a stock that would endure combat and the elements. They are stronger, less prone to warping and dings, and add a little bit of extra weight to the rifle. They are mostly sought after on MN's because they aren't as common.
As far as the unissued thing goes, I have seen pictures of unissued MN's still wrapped up in the paper they were packed in from the factory. Most of the unissued MN's I see are M44's, which were stockpiled during the Cold War, and since an official war never broke out they never got issued. So it is plausible that a 60 year old rifle never got issued and is still in mint condition.

Haha, I just Hi-jacked my own thread!!

toolman · 09-21-2006, 02:15 AM

Dave, I have heard that the bullet used in the S&B\Win. ammo is not suitable for deer. There was a thread here awhile back claiming severe bullet explosion\fragmentation causing a lot of meat damage. I have pulled the bullet and replaced it with Hornady or Sierra bullets in the 150-165 gr. range using a $12.00 Lee Loader from Cabelas w\good results.

killer · 09-21-2006, 09:21 AM

toolman where you getting your virgin 7.62x54r brass? All I'm seeing is Norma for a price I ain't paying.

I see wolf "Gold' brass is reloadable?

toolman · 09-21-2006, 12:49 PM

I get mine from Grafs for around $27-28\100. It's made by a company called Jameson and so far the quality has been really good and very consistent. I don't know how good the Wolf brass is but stay away from the Hotshot\Igman brand. It is made in Bosnia and is the worst brass I've ever seen. I hade some that had the flash hole punched halfway through the side of the primer pocket.

Well I see the price went up a bit but here's a link: Graf & Sons - 7.62mmx54R Russian

MosinDave · 09-21-2006, 04:49 PM

I have some 180gr Remington Core Lokt bullets sitting in some brass meant for an Enfield. My measurements read .3105 on the Winchester/S&B and .3095 on the Core Lokt bullet. I'm thinking about doing a little experiment..... any of you reloaders done this before? ( used enfield bullets in place of the usual size for 7.62x54R? )

toolman · 09-21-2006, 10:02 PM

They usually work just fine. Have you slugged your barrel? M\N's are famous for differing bore sizes. I load bullets varying from .308 up to .312 in mine. In the larger bore sizes the smaller bullets don't group quite as well but they are fine for plinking.

MosinDave · 09-22-2006, 10:24 AM

Yea, I slugged my Finn M91 which has a VERY tight bore so I think it should work just fine with it. Not only that, but since the bullets weight is the same ( 180 gr ) as the one I am replacing I won't have to worry about altering the powder charge! ( hopefully ) Now all I need is the equipment to pull the bullets and press the new ones in the respective cases without ruining the brass! I have no reloading equipment of my own, got any advice on some minimalist equipment I could get that would enable me to safely finish up this little project on a budget?

toolman · 09-22-2006, 01:19 PM

It all depends on how much you want to spend. You can get the Lee Anniversary kit for less than $70. With it, you just need the dies a good loading manual and and a bullet puller (and components, of course). If you want to do it the absolute cheapest way possible, get yourself a Lee Loader and a Cabelas puller. You'll be looking at a total of around $20-$25. I get most of my stuff from Cabelas. If I remember correctly, the Loader is around $13, and the puller is about $12. The Lee Loader is a complete single cal. reloading tool that only requires a mallet or even a block of wood to use. The Loader only neck-sizes the cases so they will last longer. Here's a link: Cabela's Shop -- Reloading

ninwnc · 09-25-2006, 08:29 PM

I load .311 &.312 bullets in my 7.62x54R. It makes the groups tighter than shooting .308 bullets.

I have some Norma and Lapua brass that I have used for years. About every 10 loadings, I aneal the necks with heat, to keep them soft. I have some S&B brass that I reload also and it is OK too.

I just recently purchased 100 rounds of Graf brass and have fired 50 of them 4 times and it seems to be ok to.

Nick

jonescincy · 07-02-2008, 03:44 PM

I bought one about 2 years ago and just started using it. A local shop got a huge shipment of hundreds of them wrapped in paper. We went through each one and found a perfectly smooth barrel that had no pitting so we believed it to be unissued or at least unfired. Further all the serial #'s matched which I can't say for any of the others. Firing the same surplus rounds I can group easily at 100 hards with iron sites using mine within 1-2 inches most of the time. My cousin's old Mosin varies from about 2-5. So if you are looking to purchase it's worth the effort to go through the lot systematically. I'm not a collector, I bought mine to hunt with and plan to buy wolf and winchester SP rounds first to test it out. I'll post results.

gandog56 · 07-02-2008, 03:49 PM

Nope, it's either milsurp because it's so cheap, or my homeloads looking for something better.

09-17-2006, 05:11 PM	#1
MosinDave Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 571	Has anyone here used Winchester 7.62x54R? I wanna take my Mosins deer hunting this year and I just came home with a box of Winchester/Sellier & Bellot 180gr soft point ammo. Have any of you had any good/bad experiences with this ammo? How well does the bullet expand? Is this stuff of higher quality for hunting than the Igman stuff I see for sale on AIM's site? All input is welcomed.

09-17-2006, 06:24 PM	#2
killer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In the rat race Posts: 905 Images: 6	I can't comment but what is the AIM"S site? I googled it but got nothing. I'm trying to research all I can about Mosins since I am a virgin about to purchase my "first". __________________ "Yeee Hawww...I'm a cowboy on an iron horse." Killer's cabin: http://buckmountainchateau.com/

09-17-2006, 06:41 PM	#3
.22guy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,145	I believe he's talking about aimsurplus.com __________________ Guns: they are like baseball cards except they are cool and you can kill things with em. -Billy

09-17-2006, 08:59 PM	#6
Pumpkinheaver Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,339	I read somewhere that the win 7.62X54 stuff is made by S&B. Don't know anything about it. __________________ Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!

09-17-2006, 09:54 PM	#8
killer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In the rat race Posts: 905 Images: 6	I've got two questions regarding the term "laminate" and "unissued" with the mosin nagant. It appears a "laminated" stock is the same thing that hit big on our rifle market about 20 years ago? They couldn't have had the same high tech glue available as we do. How do they hold up after all these years? Is a laminate the way to go? Also I found a place advertising "unissued" rifles but doesn't that mean they could just be rifles refurbished at an arsenal with new parts. The reciever was maybe cleaned up? I'm confused. I mean am I getting a rifle that has for 60 years been packed away in comsmoline unfired? Never issued to a troop? __________________ "Yeee Hawww...I'm a cowboy on an iron horse." Killer's cabin: http://buckmountainchateau.com/

09-17-2006, 07:03 PM	#4
MosinDave Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 571	Yea, what .22 guy said. Killer, I'm warning you now they are addictive Heres the best sites on the net for Mosin research that I have found: 7.62x54r.net Mosin Nagant These 2 sites alone have TONS of info on all that is Mosin Nagant. I'm debating on whether I want to take the Finnish M91 or the Russian M38 on my first outing this season...

09-17-2006, 08:38 PM	#5
DWARREN123 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: BETWEEN TN & KY Posts: 774	Mil-surp, it's fun !

09-17-2006, 09:29 PM	#7
MosinDave Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 571	Yep, it's all the same stuff. In fact, 4 out of the 20 rounds in the "Winchester" box are labeled S&B! LoL I still can't find any reviews of it anywhere on the net though... guess I might just have to do one myself :lucky:

09-18-2006, 08:20 AM	#9
MosinDave Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 571	Well, the laminated stocks on Mosin Nagants are really nothing more than plywood in a sense. It allowed them to use inferior woods compressed together to make a stock that would endure combat and the elements. They are stronger, less prone to warping and dings, and add a little bit of extra weight to the rifle. They are mostly sought after on MN's because they aren't as common. As far as the unissued thing goes, I have seen pictures of unissued MN's still wrapped up in the paper they were packed in from the factory. Most of the unissued MN's I see are M44's, which were stockpiled during the Cold War, and since an official war never broke out they never got issued. So it is plausible that a 60 year old rifle never got issued and is still in mint condition. Haha, I just Hi-jacked my own thread!!

09-21-2006, 02:15 AM	#10
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,566 Blog Entries: 22	Dave, I have heard that the bullet used in the S&B\Win. ammo is not suitable for deer. There was a thread here awhile back claiming severe bullet explosion\fragmentation causing a lot of meat damage. I have pulled the bullet and replaced it with Hornady or Sierra bullets in the 150-165 gr. range using a $12.00 Lee Loader from Cabelas w\good results. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun!

09-21-2006, 09:21 AM	#11
killer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In the rat race Posts: 905 Images: 6	toolman where you getting your virgin 7.62x54r brass? All I'm seeing is Norma for a price I ain't paying. I see wolf "Gold' brass is reloadable? __________________ "Yeee Hawww...I'm a cowboy on an iron horse." Killer's cabin: http://buckmountainchateau.com/

09-21-2006, 12:49 PM	#12
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,566 Blog Entries: 22	I get mine from Grafs for around $27-28\100. It's made by a company called Jameson and so far the quality has been really good and very consistent. I don't know how good the Wolf brass is but stay away from the Hotshot\Igman brand. It is made in Bosnia and is the worst brass I've ever seen. I hade some that had the flash hole punched halfway through the side of the primer pocket. Well I see the price went up a bit but here's a link: Graf & Sons - 7.62mmx54R Russian __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun! Last edited by toolman; 09-21-2006 at 12:53 PM.

09-21-2006, 04:49 PM	#13
MosinDave Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 571	I have some 180gr Remington Core Lokt bullets sitting in some brass meant for an Enfield. My measurements read .3105 on the Winchester/S&B and .3095 on the Core Lokt bullet. I'm thinking about doing a little experiment..... any of you reloaders done this before? ( used enfield bullets in place of the usual size for 7.62x54R? ) Last edited by MosinDave; 09-21-2006 at 04:54 PM.

09-21-2006, 10:02 PM	#14
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,566 Blog Entries: 22	They usually work just fine. Have you slugged your barrel? M\N's are famous for differing bore sizes. I load bullets varying from .308 up to .312 in mine. In the larger bore sizes the smaller bullets don't group quite as well but they are fine for plinking. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun!

09-22-2006, 10:24 AM	#15
MosinDave Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 571	Yea, I slugged my Finn M91 which has a VERY tight bore so I think it should work just fine with it. Not only that, but since the bullets weight is the same ( 180 gr ) as the one I am replacing I won't have to worry about altering the powder charge! ( hopefully ) Now all I need is the equipment to pull the bullets and press the new ones in the respective cases without ruining the brass! I have no reloading equipment of my own, got any advice on some minimalist equipment I could get that would enable me to safely finish up this little project on a budget?

09-22-2006, 01:19 PM	#16
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,566 Blog Entries: 22	It all depends on how much you want to spend. You can get the Lee Anniversary kit for less than $70. With it, you just need the dies a good loading manual and and a bullet puller (and components, of course). If you want to do it the absolute cheapest way possible, get yourself a Lee Loader and a Cabelas puller. You'll be looking at a total of around $20-$25. I get most of my stuff from Cabelas. If I remember correctly, the Loader is around $13, and the puller is about $12. The Lee Loader is a complete single cal. reloading tool that only requires a mallet or even a block of wood to use. The Loader only neck-sizes the cases so they will last longer. Here's a link: Cabela's Shop -- Reloading __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun! Last edited by toolman; 09-22-2006 at 01:23 PM.

09-25-2006, 08:29 PM	#17
ninwnc Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 435	I load .311 &.312 bullets in my 7.62x54R. It makes the groups tighter than shooting .308 bullets. I have some Norma and Lapua brass that I have used for years. About every 10 loadings, I aneal the necks with heat, to keep them soft. I have some S&B brass that I reload also and it is OK too. I just recently purchased 100 rounds of Graf brass and have fired 50 of them 4 times and it seems to be ok to. Nick

07-02-2008, 03:44 PM	#18
jonescincy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1	I bought one about 2 years ago and just started using it. A local shop got a huge shipment of hundreds of them wrapped in paper. We went through each one and found a perfectly smooth barrel that had no pitting so we believed it to be unissued or at least unfired. Further all the serial #'s matched which I can't say for any of the others. Firing the same surplus rounds I can group easily at 100 hards with iron sites using mine within 1-2 inches most of the time. My cousin's old Mosin varies from about 2-5. So if you are looking to purchase it's worth the effort to go through the lot systematically. I'm not a collector, I bought mine to hunt with and plan to buy wolf and winchester SP rounds first to test it out. I'll post results.

07-02-2008, 03:49 PM	#19
gandog56 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Montgomery, IL. Posts: 4,195	Nope, it's either milsurp because it's so cheap, or my homeloads looking for something better.