.308 v. 7.62 NATO

[Philip]

so i hear that you shouldn't use 7.62 nato round in a a .308, but you can use .308 in a military rifle?


something about the rounds are slightly different?

i always thought a 7.62 nato was a .308, just like a 5.54 is a 223.

[phoenix79]

Dimensionally they are the same, it's the pressures involved that are different. In the 5.56/.223 the 5.56 can be loaded to higher pressures than the .223 so you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 gun but not the other way around. As for 7.62NATO vs. .308, I'm not sure which is at the higher pressure.

[wunhunglo]

Originally Posted by Philip

so i hear that you shouldn't use 7.62 nato round in a a .308, but you can use .308 in a military rifle?


something about the rounds are slightly different?

i always thought a 7.62 nato was a .308, just like a 5.54 is a 223.

Other way round, I'm afraid, with the opposite for 5.56/.223.

While the 7.62mm NATO cartridge has a maximum chamber pressure of approximately 50,000 psi, in the SAAMI book the .308 Winchester has a MAP (maximum average product) pressure of approximately 62,000 psi. This is not to say that all .308 Winchester loads will develop such pressures, merely that they would be within manufacturing tolerances if they did so. Firing .308 Winchester ammunition in a firearm specifically chambered for the 7.62mm NATO risks damage to the firearm and injury to the shooter.

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by Philip

so i hear that you shouldn't use 7.62 nato round in a a .308, but you can use .308 in a military rifle?


something about the rounds are slightly different?

i always thought a 7.62 nato was a .308, just like a 5.54 is a 223.

I've heard the opposite. The 7.62 NATO is OK in the .308 Win. and I've done so for at least ten years in commercial bolt guns.

However, SAMMI doesn't list it as a problem.

SAAMI | Unsafe Arms and Ammunition Combinations

[just_a_car]

Originally Posted by wunhunglo

Other way round, I'm afraid, with the opposite for 5.56/.223.

While the 7.62mm NATO cartridge has a maximum chamber pressure of approximately 50,000 psi, in the SAAMI book the .308 Winchester has a MAP (maximum average product) pressure of approximately 62,000 psi. This is not to say that all .308 Winchester loads will develop such pressures, merely that they would be within manufacturing tolerances if they did so. Firing .308 Winchester ammunition in a firearm specifically chambered for the 7.62mm NATO risks damage to the firearm and injury to the shooter.

+1.

In addition, the external dimensions of the cartridges are the same, BUT the 7.62 NATO round has a thicker case wall than the commercial .308Win case, thus giving a smaller internal case capacity. This is one reason for the lower pressures of the NATO round. The thicker cases are designed to stand up to the fully-automatic and violent actions of military battle rifles such as the CETME.

[cma g21]

The Gun Zone -- .30 Caliber Ammo

The .308 Winchester and the 7.62mm NATO (nee T-65) cartridges are not the same, nor should they be considered interchangeable despite apparently identical external dimensions… the chamber drawings are in fact different.

Collecting and Shooting the Military Surplus Rifle (2006) - Surplusrifle.com

There are headspace differences between the two rounds. The .308 go-gauge is 1.6300, the .308 no go-gauge is 1.6340. The 7.62 go-gauge is 1.6350, the 7.62 no go-gauge is 1.6405. Since NATO military ammunition can come from any NATO country, and the goal is the ability to interchange ammunition, the military chamber is larger.

7.62vs308

Do you have a military surplus rifle chambered in 7.62 x 51mm? If so, I'll bet part of the reason you bought it was to get a "308 Winchester" at a really low price. Well, you screwed up. It's like looking at a Northern Pike and a Muskie. They're close yes, but each is distinctive, and you have to understand what you're looking at.

[Philip]

so can you or cant you use surplus 7.62 nato in say, a winchester or remington .308?

[wunhunglo]

Originally Posted by Philip

so can you or cant you use surplus 7.62 nato in say, a winchester or remington .308?

Yes.

[Philip]

it just wont reload right?

*confused*

[just_a_car]

Philip:

Use 7.62NATO in .308Win Firearm: A-Okay.
Use .308Win in 7.62NATO Firearm: Not recommended, but I do it in my CETME without issue.

Reloading any case requires the case to be in serviceable condition. The autoloaders can have violent actions which damage cases, thus making them useless. Bolt guns will be much more forgiving and leave brass reloadable.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by just_a_car

Philip:
Use 7.62NATO in .308Win Firearm: A-Okay.
Use .308Win in 7.62NATO Firearm: Not recommended, but I do it in my CETME without issue.

ok, my dad heard from guys at his work that you dont wanna use 7.62 in a .308, but i'll hafta tell him that its the other way around

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by wunhunglo

Yes.

Originally Posted by Philip

so can you or cant you use surplus 7.62 nato in say, a winchester or remington .308?

I do on a regular basis. Remington 700 ADL .308. I shot more mil surplus 7.62 NATO through it than commercial. Still shoots just under 1 moa with good ammo.

[billy]

my saiga rifle says on the barrel
7.62x51/.308 win

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by billy

my saiga rifle says on the barrel
7.62x51/.308 win

This Remington says &.62 NATO (.308 Winchester)

Remington Model 40-XB™ KS

[Tigercat200]

I shot prairie dogs with 7.62 NATO surplus in my Savage 110FP. They only thought they could hide behind their dirt piles.
Bob

[cma g21]

The only .308 rifle I've ever had experience problems using 7.62 NATO is an H&R single shot. Would sometimes fail to extract (a common problem with the H&R's).

The problem's I've seen or had using .308 in a 7.62 NATO rifle were:

FR-8: split case necks (chamber too long for .308), but NATO ammo works fine.

Enfield 2A: Sticky extraction with .308 (also a too long chanmber), again NATO ammo worked fine.

CETME: Case separation with a (federal) .308. No damage, and a broken shell extractor easily removed the case remnant. 1000 + rounds of NATO w/o a problem.

[roundman]

I have a Indian made .308 Enfield ( not a modified .303 rechambered to a .308) and I've talked to several gun collectors of military rifles . I was told that my enfield was built to handle the pressure of the nato or the win. rounds because during the war you got ammo from several places and you did'nt know what the load actualy was.It's just my 2 cents worth, and I'm still learning and I've learned a lot from yall.