What rifle and why in a combat situation?

[Dallas]

Hounddawg were you with the SA Army when you were in Nambia and Angola? Or on contract?

[hounddawg]

Originally Posted by Dallas

Hounddawg were you with the SA Army when you were in Nambia and Angola? Or on contract?

I was a soldier, not a mercenary.

[Dallas]

Outstanding.

[hounddawg]

Originally Posted by Dallas

Outstanding.

Why? I had just about the same amount of choice as the average American draftee who found himself in Vietnam. The only difference being in the way we were treated by our fellow-citizens when we returned. I pity the Viet Vets.

[Gyrene]

TULAver - I like the FN-49 and have three, (in 7.92 x 57mm, .308, and 7 x 57mm). I would like to get a .30-06 version, but even though 125,000 of the 175,000 FN-49's were made in .30-06, I have had no success in finding one, except for those that are NOT FOR SALE.

Except for the .308 (7.62 x 51mm) Argentinian (converted for the Argentinian Navy to .308 from 7.65 x 54mm), they really do not have removeable magazines. Technically, the BATF says it has a removeable magazine. The person who determined that (they have removeable magazines) at BATF had never seen an FN-49 except for pictures, and was surprised when one was demonstrated for him, long after he made the ruling, and he saw that the magazines cannot be loaded outside the rifle (the follower and spring can't be retained in the magazine outside the rifle).

The .308 does indeed have a removeable magazine which was originally in the 20 round configuration, but butchered down to 10 rounds when they were imported to the USA, to comply with the import controlling Presidential Order.

The biggest failing of the FN-49, was the fact that its one piece firing pin had a tendency to break, and would protrude through the firing pin hole in the bolt, causing the FN-49 to empty its magazine. That was corrected, by a new (at the time) two piece firing pin, which you should absolutely make sure your FN-49 has, when you obtain one (the two piece pins are available). Their stocks are heavy European Walnut, and despite their weight, can break at the wrist (the pistol grip area), which seems to be their other occasional failing.

The FN-49 is the parent of the FN-FAL, in nearly the same way that the "C" Programming Language is the child of the UNIX Operating System ("C" was written to run in UNIX, and UNIX was written in "C"). The FN-49 was designed originally in the late 1930's in a restricted area of FN, and at the same time the MAS 49 was designed in France. Both original designs preceeded the SKS by at least 6 or 7 years (and are contemporaries of the M1 Garand), and are really a better design than the SKS including the adjustable gas pressure which the SKS does not have. The bolt locking system is very similar, and it is strange that so many designs that are very similar were done supposedly in secret, yet are so similar. The bolt rides in a carrier, and drops down in front of a lug (steel block) to lock it for firing.

When the finished designs for production of the FN-49 were done in 1948 (the FN-49 near final design was finished in England in 1944 and it was very much like the Egyptian FN-49 in 7.92 x 57mm), the FN-FAL was already in the design stage, and also nearly finalized, but held back for the time being. Dieudonne Saive designed both rifles, as well as finalizing the design of the Browning FN High Power, after John M. Browning passed away.

A Range Test is at the following web site:

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/fn49/index.asp

I had no idea any of the Venezuelan FN-49's had been converted to 7.62 x 51mm NATO. They were originally in Mauser 7 x 57mm, and are very good in that caliber, which is a very good combat round.
`

[maarten221]

Hounddawg....

All I can say is "Troep, sien jy daardie boom? Laat jy hardloop!"
Y'all did a good job and we are !!!! proud of guys like you. I was to young for Angola, but I had friends that were old enough and have lost 2 of them post Angola - suicide.

Back to topic....smaller AR rounds are GREAT for suppressive fire. The FN's (R1) really makes them duck. Hiding behind a tree or brick wall, are ya? I think not....
The advantage of the smaller ar rounds are that you can get som much more of them on target faster and more accurately. The lower recoil and weight of the rounds are a defenite plus. The downside is that these guys can hide behind piles of grass and you wouldn't hit them....that is not the case with th 7.62NATO - in all respects. BEtter penetrations and range, but heave and recoil is a bit stiff - although less than Garand(ywah I know it is a 30-06) or G3.

[hounddawg]

Originally Posted by maarten221

Hounddawg....

All I can say is "Troep, sien jy daardie boom? Laat jy hardloop!"
Y'all did a good job and we are !!!! proud of guys like you. I was to young for Angola, but I had friends that were old enough and have lost 2 of them post Angola - suicide.

That happens. I knew a few blokes that walked the same road. I myself was (am?) forked-up for a long time. I spent 10 years wandering around the Middle-East like a bum, but I met a wonderful American lady who is now my wife, and she fixed a lot of me. I still have problems with moodswings/depression, but I manage to hold a job now, at least.

To the topic...

Has anyone considered the need for Anti-Air? When the radio alerts you to a "Victor-Victor" (Vreemde Vliegtuig, translated: Foreign Aircraft) the best assault-rifle ever made is not going to prevent your demise if it is a Hind and the jockey inside sees you.

How about theoretically outfitting, say, a Company for combat? Around 100 men, Infantry, Recon, Heavy Weapons, Signals, Medics, the whole tuti?

[maarten221]

I'm married to an American lady myself as well. Whereabouts are you in the world these days?

Back to topic:
If I get a Victor Victor, I'd much rather have a stinger or something similar - unless of course your talking about something like a Bear or B52 - then no amount of stingers will help you.

Company equipment? Are your eferring to the small arms only, or to all weapons?
If small arms, I would equip them as such:
Infantry: each squad armed with 2 6x45 SAW's, 2 DM's and the rest AR - all carry 7.62x25 sidearms.
Recon: Same as infantry, with under barrel grenade launcher.
All other with combat not listed as 'n primary job: PDW's chanbered in 7.62x25. Something like a re-engineered CZ26. MAybe even small enough to be carried in some sort of Holster.

[hounddawg]

Originally Posted by maarten221

Whereabouts are you in the world these days?

Don't spread this around, 'cos nobody knows. I'm about 1 1/2 hours South of Nasty-vile, Tennessee.

In my experience a "fast mover" won't see you unless he knows your'e there beforehand. If such is the case, your position was reported by a spotter, and the only thing on God's green earth that will save you is some friendly Imps (Impalas).

In each squad: 1 X reliable radio
1 X Vektor SS77 (7.62 X51)
(At least) 2 X M18 claymore mine
(At least) 1 X MBT LAW anti-tank "fire & forget"
All others in squad armed with Sturmgewehr 90 (.223 Rem)
The medics would be "combat medics" not wearing red crosses, only medi-packs and Sturmgewehrs, because I can't see Abdullah Achmed Jihad deciding not to zap the medic.

Each platoon has attached a Recon element (squad) armed with Sturmgewehr 90's and a Humvee scout car armed with an FN BRG 15 dual feed heavy machinegun in 15.5 X 115 mm caliber. This gun would hopefully be able to deal with pesky helicopters and entrenched positions. Also attached would be a mortar element armed with 3 X 60 mm patrol mortars. If more fire is required, it would be time to get on the radio and order up some air/artillery support.

What did I miss? Apart from the new gung-ho lootie?

[maarten221]

About you all missed is designated marksman....2 of them is possible. I suggest scoped R1 type weapons...defenitely not the G3....fro what I've heard recoil is a bear.

[maarten221]

nastyville...hehehehe :insane:

[hounddawg]

Vile, not ville. When I say vile, I mean VILE!

[Gunnie Ed]

Originally Posted by hounddawg

In my experience a "fast mover" won't see you unless he knows your'e there beforehand. If such is the case, your position was reported by a spotter, and the only thing on God's green earth that will save you is some friendly Imps (Impalas).

In each squad: 1 X reliable radio
1 X Vektor SS77 (7.62 X51)
(At least) 2 X M18 claymore mine
(At least) 1 X MBT LAW anti-tank "fire & forget"
All others in squad armed with Sturmgewehr 90 (.223 Rem)
The medics would be "combat medics" not wearing red crosses, only medi-packs and Sturmgewehrs, because I can't see Abdullah Achmed Jihad deciding not to zap the medic.

Each platoon has attached a Recon element (squad) armed with Sturmgewehr 90's and a Humvee scout car armed with an FN BRG 15 dual feed heavy machinegun in 15.5 X 115 mm caliber. This gun would hopefully be able to deal with pesky helicopters and entrenched positions. Also attached would be a mortar element armed with 3 X 60 mm patrol mortars. If more fire is required, it would be time to get on the radio and order up some air/artillery support.

that's nice. would they be mechanized, or be helibourn?

i'll just go ahead and stick up one that i've been toying around with. take note, i have no combat experience, and this is only what i see as effective from observations and whatnot. i have not tested this outside of tabletop strategy games. they worked often enough.

now, this is alot more than a hundred bodies, infact, it's around 217without the supporting chopper crews...

i think i should start at the next-to-very bottom;

the squad consists of two fire teams of six each. for the sake of conveinience lets call them A and B teams respectively.

Team A's equipment and personel is as follows;
Squad Leader(Sergeant): 5.56 carbine, Two Frags, one Smoke
Radioman: 5.56 Carbine, two frags, one smoke
Medic: 5.56 Carbine two frags
SAW Gunner: 7.62mm HK21E with 400 rounds
Rifleman#1: 7.62mm FAL(or similar rifle), two frags, extra 200 rounds for the SAW
Rifleman#2: 7.62mm FAL(or similar rifle), 40mm Grenade launcher

Team B's equipment and personel is as follows;
Squad Leader(Corporal): 5.56 carbine, Two Frags, one Smoke
Radioman: 5.56 Carbine, two frags, one smoke
Designated Marksman: 7.62mm Fal with scope
SAW Gunner: 7.62mm HK21E with 400 rounds
Rifleman#1: 7.62mm FAL(or similar rifle), two frags, extra 200 rounds for the SAW
Rifleman#2: 7.62mm FAL(or similar rifle), one RPG-7 with three rockets

each platoon has four squads plus the command team of five(including the LT). there are four platoons in this company, plus the company's command team of five(including the Captain). each command team would consist of the following;

the unit commander: 5.56 carbine, two frags, one smoke
the commander's Radioman: 5.56 carbine, two frags, one smoke
Master Sergeant: 5.56mm Carbine, two Frags
Rifleman#1: 5.56 Carbine, two Frags, one Smoke
Rifleman#2: 5.56 carbine, two Frags, one smoke

the company is supported by 10 MI8 HIPs, twelve KA50 Hokums, and three H6 Cayuse/Little Bird helicopters, adding 46 to the number in the unit.

the H6's would be there to fil the role of recon and light transport, but they could also suppliment the Hokums in thier CAP role.

i wouldn't consider this Air Cavalry as much as it's Helibourn Infantry. but one things for certain, it's air mobile. Hooah!

[maarten221]

Originally Posted by hounddawg

Vile, not ville. When I say vile, I mean VILE!

heh ehehehe

I've heard rumours of the nastiness....


Good luck mate - feel free to pop in whenever you are in the Atlanta area. I'm too young to have Bosoorlog experience. My father made Capt in the SAW.

[maarten221]

Originally Posted by Gunnie Ed

that's nice. would they be mechanized, or be helibourn?

i'll just go ahead and stick up one that i've been toying around with. take note, i have no combat experience, and this is only what i see as effective from observations and whatnot. i have not tested this outside of tabletop strategy games. they worked often enough.

now, this is alot more than a hundred bodies, infact, it's around 217without the supporting chopper crews...

i think i should start at the next-to-very bottom;

the squad consists of two fire teams of six each. for the sake of conveinience lets call them A and B teams respectively.

Team A's equipment and personel is as follows;
Squad Leader(Sergeant): 5.56 carbine, Two Frags, one Smoke
Radioman: 5.56 Carbine, two frags, one smoke
Medic: 5.56 Carbine two frags
SAW Gunner: 7.62mm HK21E with 400 rounds
Rifleman#1: 7.62mm FAL(or similar rifle), two frags, extra 200 rounds for the SAW
Rifleman#2: 7.62mm FAL(or similar rifle), 40mm Grenade launcher

Team B's equipment and personel is as follows;
Squad Leader(Corporal): 5.56 carbine, Two Frags, one Smoke
Radioman: 5.56 Carbine, two frags, one smoke
Designated Marksman: 7.62mm Fal with scope
SAW Gunner: 7.62mm HK21E with 400 rounds
Rifleman#1: 7.62mm FAL(or similar rifle), two frags, extra 200 rounds for the SAW
Rifleman#2: 7.62mm FAL(or similar rifle), one RPG-7 with three rockets

each platoon has four squads plus the command team of five(including the LT). there are four platoons in this company, plus the company's command team of five(including the Captain). each command team would consist of the following;

the unit commander: 5.56 carbine, two frags, one smoke
the commander's Radioman: 5.56 carbine, two frags, one smoke
Master Sergeant: 5.56mm Carbine, two Frags
Rifleman#1: 5.56 Carbine, two Frags, one Smoke
Rifleman#2: 5.56 carbine, two Frags, one smoke

the company is supported by 10 MI8 HIPs, twelve KA50 Hokums, and three H6 Cayuse/Little Bird helicopters, adding 46 to the number in the unit.

the H6's would be there to fil the role of recon and light transport, but they could also suppliment the Hokums in thier CAP role.

i wouldn't consider this Air Cavalry as much as it's Helibourn Infantry. but one things for certain, it's air mobile. Hooah!

Nice roundup for sure. ery well thought out. But only 1 40mm per squad? Wouldn't it be easier to eqiupp all M4's with these? It gives that extra bit of punch in a pinch, right?

[Dogbert2]

Originally Posted by willypete

a professional soldier is a weapon and anything you give him is merely a tool. remember RAMBO II when he said that the mind was the best weapon. all of our cool guns are useless without a someone to pull the trigger...

My IQ is a 118.

(18 points above average)

[TULAver]

Originally Posted by maarten221

Nice roundup for sure. ery well thought out. But only 1 40mm per squad? Wouldn't it be easier to eqiupp all M4's with these? It gives that extra bit of punch in a pinch, right?

Well, you don't really want just every Tom, Dick and Harry running around with a grenade launcher now. Ideally it would be great, but realistically it seems to me that it would be more a liability than an asset. Only thing I can think of to improve this setup would be to give one of the guys in each command team a USAS-12 or similar combat shotgun. The streetsweeper would come in handy if the enemy ever slipped through and the command team had to defend the commander!

Also, I want to be Rifleman #2 in squad B! But I dunno if Im big enough.

[maarten221]

hehehehe true, every rifleman with a 40mm GL would be a bit much now that I think about it. Maybe equipp 2 soldiers with that siaga 12ga shotty. Load it one roun slug,one round buck and so forth. That way you are covered for bother covered and uncovered targets

[Gunnie Ed]

meh, i'd rather outfit them with a Valtro PM-5 sans disconnect. if it does have one. i've never been able to get anyone to tell me...

a pump gun like the Ithica 37 fed by a detatchable magazine would be perfect.

[Hattrick]

Wir Waffe, I agree with you, that the M16 and its variants are very fine battle rifles. My only beef with it has been the dipdunk cartridge. Outside of the FMJ ballpark, the cartridge shines; its terminal impact is no longer dependant on velocity, alone.

I can't believe how many of those die-hards at AR15.com swear by an AR loaded with military contract or surplus 55gr. FMJ as their home defense rifle or carbine. TAP......