Which one, M1A1 or M16?

Beer Forever · 01-31-2006, 01:26 PM

I am saving up for a brand new Springfield M1A1 with a 20 round box mag, but 1500 bucks is a good chunk of change when I can get a new AR15 for 600. It is a hard decision.

silentknight · 01-31-2006, 01:32 PM

or you could join the Garand Collectors Association at http://www.garandcollector.org/ and buy one through CMP http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles...nd.htm#Service you can get a Garand for $600

Beer Forever · 01-31-2006, 01:42 PM

Are those new rifles? I like the price and the guns.

Pred · 01-31-2006, 01:57 PM

No, the rifles from CMP are not new. I think most of them were ones that were loaned to other countrys and are being shipped back, I think. I've asked this question before, and I'll ask it again, what are you wanting this rifle for? Just for fun? Home protection? Are you a cop? A hunting rifle? Dont get me wrong, both are great rifles, and I'd love to have an M1A1. But, for $1500 I could build myself a nice AR and buy a .30-06 or .308 bolt gun too. Maybe even get lucky and have enough left over for a Mossberg 500.

Beer Forever · 01-31-2006, 02:04 PM

I want the M1A1 for target shooting and a little defense as well as the AR15. On the Springfield website the cheapest one is like 1300. I can get a great AR15 for under 700, but the M1's look so cool. I know, 308 aint cheap so the logical choice is the AR.

Pred · 01-31-2006, 02:15 PM

Are you going to be target shooting out to a 1000 yards? You get get an M1A1 for less than that, at the last gun show I went too there was a nice M1A1 with a bipod and red-dot for $1100. As for defense, I'd say you would need it more for room to room under 50 yards. A full size M1A1 is 44" long, a SOCOM is 37.25" long. On the flip side a 16" AR is between 33" and 37" with a 6 position stock. And I know RRA rifles are good for 1" groups at 100 yards, so the accuracy is there. Not to mention, I would think with an M1A1 there would alot more recoil vs a .223, so keeping on target would be easier. I havn't shot an M1A1, so maybe I'm wrong. But the only way to avoid that, is weight. An M1A1 is about 10-13lbs, an AR is 8lbs.

Beer Forever · 01-31-2006, 02:35 PM

Good point. I think cost is just to much of a factor for me and the AR is looking better everyday.

Pred · 01-31-2006, 02:39 PM

Well, I'm by no means trying to tell you what to do, its your money, you worked for it, you should spend it on what you want. Now, I will also say this. I learned along time ago that when you plan on spending money, do it right the first time. If you think that after you get an AR, you'll still want an M1A1, maybe you need to get what you really want first. I hate when people do to me, what I'm doing to you. Cause now(if your like me) your going to be back to square one trying to figure out what you want LOL..... Good luck either way.

Gyrene · 01-31-2006, 03:39 PM

sks forever - I have the rifles you mention. Weightwise they are closer than Pred mentioned. My AR-15 weighs about 9.5 lbs as received new in the box. My M14 S/A weighs just under 10 lbs, the same as my M1 Garands, and the M1A Supermatch weighs 11 lbs. When weighted down for target shooting, they each weigh between 15 and 18 pounds. Of course these weights are with empty magazines, and loading the mags obviously increases the weight.

If you are talking about using any of these rifles for home defense, plan on killing or injuring other people you have in your house and your neighbors. These rifles can easily kill out beyond 500 to 1200 yards, even going through building walls. Home defense is not to be taken lightly, use what has been proven to work, and prepare for a lot of anguish and second guessing as to what you should have done. Most people today are not prepared to kill or to face what they will, after doing so, even in a war zone in combat. It is not the same as going hunting or fishing, though many people go through a similar HE_ _, after their first hunting kill, it is still different.

A shotgun is a far better home defense weapon, because when you shoot birdshot, it will take out anyone within 35 yards (most houses are not that long), unless the shot hits a wall, door, etc., in any case most of the shot would hit the ground by about 100 yards, in the open. Besides, you would have a better chance of hitting what you point it at, with a shotgun, and if it becomes a gunfight in close quarters, the shotgun will rule.

Home defense is generally considered as being within the home, and with the perpetrator making an attack, on you or others within your house. A perpetrator being shot in the back can, and almost certainly will, earn you jail time, and if the perpetrator is outside your house when shot, you are at risk of losing your freedom for a long time.

`

Pred · 01-31-2006, 03:46 PM

Yeah, its funny. Say you wake up one night to find someone in your house. You grab a gun and go look. You turn around a corner and theres someone stealing your stuff. They fire and run, you return fire hitting them in the back. If, at any point you go to jail or get sued and they win, I think every person on the jury, and the judge himself should be stuck on a boat and shoved out into the Atlantic.

Bull Barrel · 01-31-2006, 04:21 PM

It'd hard yo play the game when you don't know all the rules--thanks for pointing out the need for low penetration weapons in QCB Gyrene. I have AR fever myself but short of shooting reactive targets in the back acreage I can't see breaking that out to fend off a prowler--confronting a tresspasser is a little different than classic "home defense" and unless the need to return fire arises i would think a pistol or shotgun would be a sufficient deterrent on sight alone.

I've shot an M1A1 and that is a whopper of a round.

The .223 seems more manageable as far as range and penetration.

spicybeefjerky · 01-31-2006, 04:48 PM

i bought a rock river arms "entry tactical" for 400...like new traded one of my k-31's and some $$ for it...the guy didnt realize that he needed to sight it in before expecting nice groupings etc...either way its great... .223 in a small rifle is great for home defense...and you get a match trigger

Pred · 01-31-2006, 04:55 PM

WHAT!!! You got a RRA rifle for $400? What else does he have? Maybe I should give him a call...

Beer Forever · 01-31-2006, 05:07 PM

I have handguns for home defense. I love target shooting and you can never have too many rifles. The M1 in my eyes is more of a colletable piece because they are too nice to shoot the crap out of. 308 is not a cheap round for target shooting and 223 is. No matter, I need more cash first.

Bull Barrel · 01-31-2006, 05:15 PM

That .308 I was shooting last month was putting cratered holes in 3/8" plate from 55 yards--throwing sparks. Neat gun but not to my liking--now th DPS AR with the full floating barrel I shot the week after was exactly what I like--I still can't decide which AR to buy, Bushmaster seems pretty good, but there are lots of makes to choose from...

FutureMarine · 01-31-2006, 07:03 PM

impact guns has good prices for m1a's

Gyrene · 01-31-2006, 11:29 PM

M1A's are hard to find nowdays, as the way I understand it, Springfield Armory (Commercial) Geneseo, IL., is busy with some Government contracts, and the civilian market will just have to standby, and be patient.

FutureMarine · 01-31-2006, 11:38 PM

Hard to find?? I see them on sites all the time, and MANY MANY at gunshows

Mooseman684 · 01-31-2006, 11:49 PM

This is a really interesting question to me...do you want a Pea shooter or do you want a real Battle rifle??? Each have their place in the gunworld , but Bigger is better in my opinion! I can kill something with both at closer ranges but I can kill something Farther away with the M1A! I can punch larger holes too! It's kinda like fishing, Would you go after a 200 lb Halibut with a Fly rod ?
You could but you won't have a Fly rod for very long !!! Different Guns and Different calibers were all developed because one wouldn't do the job that another one would, so, since guns are tools, you have to have different ones for different jobs...So in reality, You need to figure out what the job is that you want to do and buy accordingly...Just common sense!

FutureMarine · 01-31-2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

This is a really interesting question to me...do you want a Pea shooter or do you want a real Battle rifle??? Each have their place in the gunworld , but Bigger is better in my opinion! I can kill something with both at closer ranges but I can kill something Farther away with the M1A! I can punch larger holes too! It's kinda like fishing, Would you go after a 200 lb Halibut with a Fly rod ?
You could but you won't have a Fly rod for very long !!! Different Guns and Different calibers were all developed because one wouldn't do the job that another one would, so, since guns are tools, you have to have different ones for different jobs...So in reality, You need to figure out what the job is that you want to do and buy accordingly...Just common sense!

Indeed

01-31-2006, 01:26 PM	#1
Beer Forever Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,714	Which one, M1A1 or M16? I am saving up for a brand new Springfield M1A1 with a 20 round box mag, but 1500 bucks is a good chunk of change when I can get a new AR15 for 600. It is a hard decision. __________________ Paramedic sks forever

01-31-2006, 01:32 PM	#2
silentknight Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,125 Images: 3	or you could join the Garand Collectors Association at http://www.garandcollector.org/ and buy one through CMP http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles...nd.htm#Service you can get a Garand for $600 __________________ Sic Vis Pacem Parabellum

01-31-2006, 01:42 PM	#3
Beer Forever Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,714	Are those new rifles? I like the price and the guns. __________________ Paramedic sks forever

01-31-2006, 02:04 PM	#5
Beer Forever Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,714	I want the M1A1 for target shooting and a little defense as well as the AR15. On the Springfield website the cheapest one is like 1300. I can get a great AR15 for under 700, but the M1's look so cool. I know, 308 aint cheap so the logical choice is the AR. __________________ Paramedic sks forever

01-31-2006, 02:35 PM	#7
Beer Forever Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,714	Good point. I think cost is just to much of a factor for me and the AR is looking better everyday. __________________ Paramedic sks forever

01-31-2006, 01:57 PM	#4
Pred Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,873 Blog Entries: 3	No, the rifles from CMP are not new. I think most of them were ones that were loaned to other countrys and are being shipped back, I think. I've asked this question before, and I'll ask it again, what are you wanting this rifle for? Just for fun? Home protection? Are you a cop? A hunting rifle? Dont get me wrong, both are great rifles, and I'd love to have an M1A1. But, for $1500 I could build myself a nice AR and buy a .30-06 or .308 bolt gun too. Maybe even get lucky and have enough left over for a Mossberg 500.

01-31-2006, 02:15 PM	#6
Pred Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,873 Blog Entries: 3	Are you going to be target shooting out to a 1000 yards? You get get an M1A1 for less than that, at the last gun show I went too there was a nice M1A1 with a bipod and red-dot for $1100. As for defense, I'd say you would need it more for room to room under 50 yards. A full size M1A1 is 44" long, a SOCOM is 37.25" long. On the flip side a 16" AR is between 33" and 37" with a 6 position stock. And I know RRA rifles are good for 1" groups at 100 yards, so the accuracy is there. Not to mention, I would think with an M1A1 there would alot more recoil vs a .223, so keeping on target would be easier. I havn't shot an M1A1, so maybe I'm wrong. But the only way to avoid that, is weight. An M1A1 is about 10-13lbs, an AR is 8lbs.

01-31-2006, 02:39 PM	#8
Pred Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,873 Blog Entries: 3	Well, I'm by no means trying to tell you what to do, its your money, you worked for it, you should spend it on what you want. Now, I will also say this. I learned along time ago that when you plan on spending money, do it right the first time. If you think that after you get an AR, you'll still want an M1A1, maybe you need to get what you really want first. I hate when people do to me, what I'm doing to you. Cause now(if your like me) your going to be back to square one trying to figure out what you want LOL..... Good luck either way.

01-31-2006, 03:39 PM	#9
Gyrene Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CA Posts: 886	sks forever - I have the rifles you mention. Weightwise they are closer than Pred mentioned. My AR-15 weighs about 9.5 lbs as received new in the box. My M14 S/A weighs just under 10 lbs, the same as my M1 Garands, and the M1A Supermatch weighs 11 lbs. When weighted down for target shooting, they each weigh between 15 and 18 pounds. Of course these weights are with empty magazines, and loading the mags obviously increases the weight. If you are talking about using any of these rifles for home defense, plan on killing or injuring other people you have in your house and your neighbors. These rifles can easily kill out beyond 500 to 1200 yards, even going through building walls. Home defense is not to be taken lightly, use what has been proven to work, and prepare for a lot of anguish and second guessing as to what you should have done. Most people today are not prepared to kill or to face what they will, after doing so, even in a war zone in combat. It is not the same as going hunting or fishing, though many people go through a similar HE_ _, after their first hunting kill, it is still different. A shotgun is a far better home defense weapon, because when you shoot birdshot, it will take out anyone within 35 yards (most houses are not that long), unless the shot hits a wall, door, etc., in any case most of the shot would hit the ground by about 100 yards, in the open. Besides, you would have a better chance of hitting what you point it at, with a shotgun, and if it becomes a gunfight in close quarters, the shotgun will rule. Home defense is generally considered as being within the home, and with the perpetrator making an attack, on you or others within your house. A perpetrator being shot in the back can, and almost certainly will, earn you jail time, and if the perpetrator is outside your house when shot, you are at risk of losing your freedom for a long time. `

01-31-2006, 03:46 PM	#10
Pred Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,873 Blog Entries: 3	Yeah, its funny. Say you wake up one night to find someone in your house. You grab a gun and go look. You turn around a corner and theres someone stealing your stuff. They fire and run, you return fire hitting them in the back. If, at any point you go to jail or get sued and they win, I think every person on the jury, and the judge himself should be stuck on a boat and shoved out into the Atlantic.

01-31-2006, 04:21 PM	#11
Bull Barrel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia Posts: 239	It'd hard yo play the game when you don't know all the rules--thanks for pointing out the need for low penetration weapons in QCB Gyrene. I have AR fever myself but short of shooting reactive targets in the back acreage I can't see breaking that out to fend off a prowler--confronting a tresspasser is a little different than classic "home defense" and unless the need to return fire arises i would think a pistol or shotgun would be a sufficient deterrent on sight alone. I've shot an M1A1 and that is a whopper of a round. The .223 seems more manageable as far as range and penetration. __________________ Beautiful Noisy Deadly Machines--What's Not to Like? :assult:

01-31-2006, 04:48 PM	#12
spicybeefjerky Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 155	i bought a rock river arms "entry tactical" for 400...like new traded one of my k-31's and some $$ for it...the guy didnt realize that he needed to sight it in before expecting nice groupings etc...either way its great... .223 in a small rifle is great for home defense...and you get a match trigger

01-31-2006, 04:55 PM	#13
Pred Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,873 Blog Entries: 3	WHAT!!! You got a RRA rifle for $400? What else does he have? Maybe I should give him a call...

01-31-2006, 05:07 PM	#14
Beer Forever Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,714	I have handguns for home defense. I love target shooting and you can never have too many rifles. The M1 in my eyes is more of a colletable piece because they are too nice to shoot the crap out of. 308 is not a cheap round for target shooting and 223 is. No matter, I need more cash first. __________________ Paramedic sks forever

01-31-2006, 05:15 PM	#15
Bull Barrel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia Posts: 239	That .308 I was shooting last month was putting cratered holes in 3/8" plate from 55 yards--throwing sparks. Neat gun but not to my liking--now th DPS AR with the full floating barrel I shot the week after was exactly what I like--I still can't decide which AR to buy, Bushmaster seems pretty good, but there are lots of makes to choose from... __________________ Beautiful Noisy Deadly Machines--What's Not to Like? :assult:

01-31-2006, 07:03 PM	#16
FutureMarine Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: PRK Posts: 1,946	impact guns has good prices for m1a's

01-31-2006, 11:29 PM	#17
Gyrene Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CA Posts: 886	M1A's are hard to find nowdays, as the way I understand it, Springfield Armory (Commercial) Geneseo, IL., is busy with some Government contracts, and the civilian market will just have to standby, and be patient.

01-31-2006, 11:38 PM	#18
FutureMarine Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: PRK Posts: 1,946	Hard to find?? I see them on sites all the time, and MANY MANY at gunshows

01-31-2006, 11:49 PM	#19
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,638 Images: 2	This is a really interesting question to me...do you want a Pea shooter or do you want a real Battle rifle??? Each have their place in the gunworld , but Bigger is better in my opinion! I can kill something with both at closer ranges but I can kill something Farther away with the M1A! I can punch larger holes too! It's kinda like fishing, Would you go after a 200 lb Halibut with a Fly rod ? You could but you won't have a Fly rod for very long !!! Different Guns and Different calibers were all developed because one wouldn't do the job that another one would, so, since guns are tools, you have to have different ones for different jobs...So in reality, You need to figure out what the job is that you want to do and buy accordingly...Just common sense! __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!