AR15 for Deer Hunting!

[Ohiyesa]

Originally Posted by samuel

I believe you have been reading too many Zumbo type articles.If you enjoy them fine,read them.But I advise reading up on a firearm before writing on it. The AR type firearm was designed to hunt the most dangerous game on earth in the most GOD forsaken terrain and conditions ever emagined.I am sure it would be very capable in a deer hunt with all the cooshy extras we employ on a game hunt.The 1in9"twist makes the use of heavier bullets than a bolt action,s 1in12" twist allows.And yet I have seen a bolt gun with 55gr and under bullets used successfuly.You say it isnt accurate,you should shoot one before making that statement.Many AR,s shoot MOA right out of the box.Also the AR platform often utilises up to .50cal.cartridges.As to stating you dont want a wounded animal moving,I have seen many deer and other game hit with -06,s and .12ga slugs that moved quite far before they went down.I have seen them drop in their tracks with a precision shot from a .223 round.I am not advocating using a .223 for deer but I am not going to say it cant be done efficiently and humanely. sam.

I never tried hunting with a roto-tiller but till get mine fired up and try it if A.H. says it can be done. sam.

I can NOT believe that someone actually said the AR-15 is NOT Accurate I Hand Loaded some 55 Grn V-Max and my AR-15 shoots a .335" Group (3 Shot) @ 100 Yards, and I could Probably Get a better Group if I tried $1,000 worth of DIFFERENT Powders, But I am Happy (for now) with my .335" Group
I hunt Coyotes, Crows & Groundhogs with my AR-15, I have NOT Shot a Coyote Yet, But I can guarantee that those Crows and Groundhogs thought the AR-15 Platform was Plenty Accurate
So I guess I agree with the "Zumbo" Comment, do NOT Knock a Gun UNTIL you have tried it !
Now The Question by the OP was: is the AR-15 good enough to KILL a Deer ?
Well the AR-15 comes in many different Calibers, so just get a different Upper for our AR-15 and Have a Ball with it, as for the .223 Cal. being Good/Big enough to kill a Deer, well I don't have much experience with the .223 on Deer because my State requires either Shotgun Slugs, Hand Guns with a Straight Walled cartridge .357 Mag or Larger, or a Muzzleloader of at LEAST .38 Caliber
I DO know a guy that Shot 2 Deer, 1 Deer with a .223 and the Other Deer with a 22-250 and they BOTH were DRT, BUT the Shot was uner 150 Yards
So I think if you KNOW the Limitations of your Weapon/Bullet Combo, and Stick to them, then I see no Problem
Like I said earlier, My State lets us use a .38 Caliber Muzzleloader, but that doesn't mean I am going to use it, I use a .50 Cal Muzzleloader and my 2 Teen Aged Sons use .45 Cal Muzzleloaders and they have BOTH Killed Deer at 125 Yds with theirs
So the Jist of my Post was MORE on the: is the AR-15 accurate? and My Answer is YES !
Now, is the .223 Big enough for Deer? Yes it is, BUT if the OP would Get an AR-15 with a Different Upper, he would Not only have More Kinetic Energy, But would also have the Recoil Knocked Down that he is Worried About
With ANY Firearm/Weapon, you MUST Practice to get Proficient with it, PERIOD
And it does help if you Handload our own ammo
Ohiyesa

[Wingwiper]

You can buy 5 rd mags and use Store Bought ammo, no Military amm in hunting. You want SOFT TIPS and not a round that will continue for two miles beyond the Deer. Other than that I use my AR-15 all of the time, people look at me strangly but depending on my mood, I hunt either with my AR-15 or my M1A and if they all don't like it, TOUGH. I know these firearms extremely well and I have never missed a head shot yet.
Hunt with what YOU the shooter is most comfortable with and capable with. If you are going to take a life, it is best to use a firearm that you can make the shot with and if that is a M16, so be it.

[Wingwiper]

NEVER use Military/FMJ or Jacketed AMMO, use Store bought so the Projectile doesn't go 2 miles beyond your target.
I hunt with my AR-15 and if I am in the mood will hunt with my M1A and I have NEVER missed a head shot yet. If people don't like it, too bad.

You need to think of the animal that you are hunting, you want to kill swiftly and if you are more capable of doing so with a M16 than bu God do it. You need to hunt with what you are comfortable and capable with not what others think you should use.

[madtrapper1969]

After reading.... I just have to add:

Military use for the .223 was adopted many years ago to be the "standard" caliber for one reason. look it up in the history of war weaponry and you will understand why. The .223 was designed to WOUND the enemy soldier not kill him instantly. Though it will with no problem; their theory does make sense in a war situation. Fact is the .223 was adopted for this one reason(wounding). You shoot an enemy soldier and just wound him. Now it takes on the average of THREE soldiers (himself and two others) to get him back to safe lines. Common knowledge: never leave your fellow soldier wounded to die without you attempting to help.
Now you have two MORE enemy soldiers out there to eliminate. It is purely a war strategy. That is why the .223 was adopted into military standard class.

Now having said this: I have killed many deer with a .223, and have shot them very well, and watched them tip over very quickly, but I was very, very critical on the bullet and shot placement. I passed on a bunch of shots that were marginal, and waited for the right one. Have killed well over 100 deer across the country with many calibers and know how tough they can be.

I will not take sides here: just shedding a little light on a couple things.

I however do NOT believe it to be a good cartridge for deer, but it will work.

To my main reason for posting other than the .223's military adoption.:

Get your AR in a different caliber for example. I just ordered one in .243 WSSM that is guaranteed to shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards. (.5 MOA) They also offer one in the 25 WSSM which has the EXACT same ballistics as the very venerable 25-06. which in my opinion is the perfect whitetail cartridge.

The .243 WSSM I ordered will do .5 MOA with a 55 grain barnes bullet, and 55 grain winchester supremes to name just a couple. NOW I can however go up to a 100 grain bullet and deer hunt with it. Which I will do. I will lose some accuracy with the heavier bullet because of the rate of twist in the rifling, but should still be able to load a round that will do 1 MOA.

Plenty accurate for deer at reasonable range.

Just my bit of input: The military research is very valid and I wish you luck, and keep your head clear.

Take care

Jim

[Shaun]

I have used my 6x45mm AR to take deer and it is great the 55grain took the buck down clean several years ago with no meat wasted the heart was destroyed.

[Wingwiper]

I didn't see my first post and so I wrote it again. Sorry to all who were bored with it the first time and were first to read pretty much the same AGAIN......

[magicar15]

.223 is NOT LEGAL in Washington state to hunt DEER, AS OF 2008 for Washington State.

however, i am normaly a Bowhunter, and wouldn't be cought dead in the mountains on rifle season. but if i had to go out into the woods with all the idiots out there now, i want a AR15/m4 conversion to back me up. yes, i want a assult anything and everything i can. this is why i'm a bowhunter, all tags every year since i was 14, i'm 34 now. elk,dear,coogar,bear,sheep and moose, if it walks on 4 legs or shoots at me, its going to die.


thanks,
magic

[magicar15]

Originally Posted by magicar15

excuse me? .223 is
NOT LEGAL in Washington state to hunt DEER, AS OF 2008 for Washington State.

however, i am normaly a Bowhunter, and wouldn't be cought dead in the mountains on rifle season. but if i had to go out into the woods with all the idiots out there now, i want a AR15 to back me up. yes, i want a assult anything and everything i can. this is why i'm a bowhunter, all tags every year since i was 14, i'm 34 now. elk,dear,coogar,bear,sheep and moose, if it walks on 4 legs or shoots at me, its going to die.


thanks,
magic

but dont get me wrong, keep it SAFE, and only shoot back if its in self defense, and only after yelling your head off.. with bow however, i try to always shoot something larger than a 110 grain broadhead.. so i can assume the same goes for rifle.

[magicar15]

Originally Posted by magicar15

but dont get me wrong, keep it SAFE, and only shoot back if its in self defense, and only after yelling your head off.. with bow however, i try to always shoot something larger than a 110 grain broadhead.. so i can assume the same goes for rifle.

washington state said only .224 and higher page 67.. so, if your in washington better get that $600 ready for a hunting upper.

[connormcmanus]

I love being in GA, .22 caliber centerfire is the rule here. Technically if I wanted to I could go into the woods with a 5.7 FN. not that I would, that would be ridiculous. But I do plan on taking my AR into the woods with me this season, both in .223 and .450 bushmaster.

[roger460xvr]

I know my 6.8spc drops deer and hogs like a rock.. I LOVE MY AR-15.. ROGER460xvr

[akguy]

6.8 rem is deadly on any whitetail 7 shots@150-200yds 7 dead deer one ran@200ft all depends who is aiming and pulling the trigger

[338RUM]

well my question is this: Is is the round itself everyone doesn't think is adequate or is it the .224 cal bore?

because I agree that a 223 is a marginal deer killer and I would not agree to it's use on anything larger than an antelope (they are easy to kill and weigh approx 100 lbs), but I have no problems shooting deer with my 223 WSSM I have shot 5 so far 3 of which have been behind the front shoulder with Sierra 50 gr ballistic tips, of the other 2, 1 was shot in the head and the other was shot in the base of the neck... both of those were with the Sierra 50 gr. ballistic tips and all 5 never took a step I believe the explosive bullets put the deer in hydrostatic shock (plus it jellyed there lungs/heart)

[Atvaar]

OK, My 2 cents on this is it all comes down to physics... if the rifle has the accuacy and penitration to make the kill then use it if you are capable of doing so. Pick what you like go to the range and scope or irons find out what YOUR KILL RANGE is and when you hunt dont shoot at anything out side of that. Clean shots make for clean kills. If your not sure you can hit the mark then dont shoot at it. I have seen a 22LR hollow point take a deer at close range and I have read bout 223's and 7mm taking elephants... again clean shots make clean kills and sloppy shots make messes. Be humane and know your weapon and your limits!!

[akguy]

i have heard of eskimos killing polar bears with 22s must have been suicidal

[223Shooter]

this is a topic thats beat to death every year just before deer seasons start.im a licensed firearms dealer and gunsmith, and a long time licensed fishing guide and hunting outfitter. ive hunted about everything that walks or crawls,2 legged and 4, and some of the things i read online just make me want to laugh.

i have been hunting deer with 22 centerfire rifles for over 35 years. ive killed mule deer that dress out at over 270 with a 222, and ive killed white tails and blacktails with my 22 K hornet. ive hunted with about every 22 centerifre made,including the AR in 223,mini 14,ect.

every year you hear someone sniveling about how "inhuman" it is to shoot a deer with a 22 centerfire, how cruel it is, and how a deer deserves a clean quick kill.....all i can say is BULL...have you ever shot a deer with a 22 centerfire?.....my guess is NO...most of the guys who scream and holler about how inadequate it is have never taken that shot. there repeating what they heard on another forums or what someone else has told them. how is a 22 centerfire any worse than shooting a deer with a stick with a razor blade on the end of it?...ive seen deer shot with bows, even right on national tv on the outdoor channel and the various other channels that show these canned deer hunts by so-called "master bow hunters" that can stick 5 arrows in a 50 cent piece sized spot at 50 yards that ran hundreds of yards before actually succumbing to the loss of blood and pain. ive seen the guys shoot those deer at 6 or 7 am in the morning, and not find them until 5 or 6 THAT EVENING...now, how is it OK to bow hunt a deer,shoot one and have the sucker travel hundreds of yards before dropping, and shooting one with something like a 222 or 223 isnt?....sounds like a double standard to me. heck, i shot a 3x3 blacktail last year at about 150 yards with my 22K hornet. my load was a 52gr speer hollowpoint and 12gr of little gun powder sitting on top of a pistol primer. the damage was devistating, and the sucker dropped like it got hit by a bolt of lightning. now dont get me wrong, i have nothing against bow hunting whatsoever. ive bowhunted myself, but for some of you guys to get on here and make it sound like hunting deer with a 223 is way inadequate just burns my hide. ive killed a guesstimated 35+ nice big bucks in my time with 22 centerfire rifles, and i have yet to have one travel more than 50 yards or so without dropping, and thats only been a very very few. most drop like a stone and never know what hit them. do you guys have any idea of what devistating damage a good 22 centerfire can do?....i do first hand. ive seen the bullet make a virtually undetectable entrance wound and come out the size of a grapefruit on the other side, and heart and lungs fall out on the ground.

if your not a good enough shot to hit what and where you aim, by all means, stay out of the woods and take up needlpoint or something.


my whole point is, unless you have first hand knowlege (I.E. shot one and had it run off on ya) my suggestion would be really to keep your opinions to yourself.

223 is majorly adequate for deer.

just ask my brother in law. hes on his 5th tour in iraq, and is a sergent major in the army rangers. man is the hardest animal on earth to kill, and he has killed several iraqis over there with 223 with no problem, one shot stop, some out to 350-500 yards.

oh, and by the way, i am located in california where ALL 22 centerfires are legal. the california department of fish and game conducted a study some years back, and decided up front that all 22 centerfires were plenty big for deer.

[sell33]

I was thinking the same thing about deer suffering from a bow^^^^ i don't bow hunt but know plenty of ppl that do and i know deer don't go straight down from an arrow...i would say a 223 is far more humane than an arrow....

[223Shooter]

Originally Posted by sell33

I was thinking the same thing about deer suffering from a bow^^^^ i don't bow hunt but know plenty of ppl that do and i know deer don't go straight down from an arrow...i would say a 223 is far more humane than an arrow....

amen to that

im sorry if my first post was a bit harsh, but like i mentioned, it really burns my arse to hear all of these people who have never hunted with any of the 22 centerfires. the majority (if not all) of them are only repeating what they have heard previously on some other forums. shot placment is important with any c aliber you shoot, but just because a guns a bigger caliber doesnt mean its going to be any more lethal. ive seen cases where it was just the oposite. one time i watched a freind of our families shoot a deer at about 300 yards with a 30-06. this deer was hit good in the chest, both lungs, but the bullet was moving so fast it went right thru, and the sucker ran like 800 yards before it finally collapsed. when we got to it, it had laid there and bled to death, and was lieing in a hugh pool of blood. no one can tell me that deer didnt suffer.

i saw another deer shot here in california one time with a 30-06. that suckers heart was blown in two, and same scenerio, thru and thru shot, and the deer ran like 400 yards before dieing. almost every single deer ive ever shot with a 22 centerfire has dropped like a stone, and if it ran at all, it wasnt very far. i even snap shot and foul shot a buck one time, catching him on the run in the rear hind quarters with a 222 . he was at a dead run, and at the shot, he crumbled and slid. the damage was so severe, he went instantly into shock and died. i lost a rear quarter because of it, but point is, he didnt go anywere.

you always hear people saying how inhumane hunting with the 22 centerfires is, but yet, believe it or not, if you do some checking, more and more states are starting get wise to all of these "old wives tales" and starting to change there regulation to allow them.maybe 70 years ago a 22 centerfire may not have been adequate for deer, but we have come a LOOONG way in powder,bullet and case design,etc since then.


what id like to hear is some of these guys reasonings in there thinking that 22 centerfires are so "inhumane"

this is my hunting 223


this is a neck shot with a 22 K hornet...you dont think this sucker dropped like a rock?


another that fell to 223,200 yards,dropped like he was lightning struck and never even twitched

[223Shooter]

what happened to all of these guys who were hollering that a 223 was way to small for deer hunting?....id love to hear there reasoning behind that and where they get there info

[HEMI]

223 if you want to use your 223 for deer go a head, its illegal to use a 22cal most places for a reason,WOUNDED GAME.