AR15 for Deer Hunting!

[PowerPointPlus]

Hey yawll! I'm PowerPointPlus( or Tubby Ray as I'm known here in town ) I'm new to this forum. I hope to have a good time and learn a lot thanks!

Back on this topic, Winchester has rescently released a new 64grain 223 bullet that they claim is capable of stopping deer. They acheive this by using a harder inside core that is designed to punch through the deer without blowing to peices like its fellow 223 bretheren are designed to do. What do yawll think of this? I own a Bushmaster M4A3, and I am strongly considering using it in the feild with that load, due to lighter recoil than my 30-06. I've read positive reviews on Midway.com, and have heard good things back here in town, So I'd love to hear what yawll think on this. Write in if you have a view on this subject, I'd love to hear it, Thanks!
-Tubbert Bilphus Raymond Jr

[Pred]

I say no.

[FutureMarine]

you mention stopping a deer. maybe. but now think about killing it cleanly...im not hunter but im just trying to look at it in a logical way.

[Beer Forever]

shooting a deer w/ an ar is cruel, no matter what ammo. A deer is a cool animal and deserves to be taken down in one swift shot, rather than something that may or may not kill it quickly.

[.22guy]

I'm no expert, but I say no. Just load down your 30-06 or get a recoil pad or something.

[Otter]

The 5.56X45mm round works well on deer. It transfers all it's energy into the animal causing a massive wound. The heavier 7.62 mm bullets tend to blow through with a smaller exit wound. I lean toward the light high speed or extra heavy slow big bore.

[bigandrich44]

Toughen up. (sp?) A .223 bullet might stop a deer inside a 100 yards, but most of the times it won't. Get a .243 if you want light recoil and deer stopping power.

[Pred]

Originally Posted by PowerPointPlus

I am strongly considering using it in the feild with that load, due to lighter recoil than my 30-06.

Exactly how many deer do you plan to bring home in one day? I mean, you shouldn't fire your weapon more then 3 times, and thats if you get your seasons limit. I would hope your shoulder can withstand 2-3 30-06 rounds within a 14-16 hour period.

[FeLiX]

leave the .223 to kill arab's!! where i live we treat deer with respect, use something with more killing power...

[PowerPointPlus]

Friends,
I looked up the balistic tables last night and found that the Winchester 100grain 243 power point plus, at 300 or 400 yards has more lb-ft of energy than the 150gr 308 PowerPointPlus! That is remarkable for a caliber that small! I'm more than willing to go with that! If I'm not mistaken, Remington makes a 7400/7600 chambered in a 243, so I might have to aquirre that in the near future. By the way, I must be a better shot with a 223 than some of you guys, because I can place all of my 20rounds in a 5-10inch circle( i e the critical areas of a deer ) I have no fear of not bringing the deer down "cleanly" Also, the AR is so fast that even if you do mess up and miss where you are aiming, the second/third shots are very fast, so you can place multiple shots into the deer, basicly assureing the kill.

BTW Otter is right! The 5.56mm makes use of its small size by tumbling on impact to create a bigger caliber hole than just a 22, the problem with a 220gr 30-06 for smaller deer, is like he said, it just blows right thru them and leaves a small wound hole. Friends I don't know about you, but I don't know as if I like the 5.56mm better than the 220gr 30-06. If I were to hunt Elk or Moose, yeah 30-06 all day long, but with small eastern deer, I view the 223 a very capable weapon, and many trusted sourses feel the same. Thats enough for me but I do thank everyone for posting and hope you will continue, Thanks!

[sureshot43]

For deer, dont use anything smaller thana 243win. for deer, and thats if you keep shots under 150 yds. sure,it will hit and killa deer fyrther than tha, but it doesnt leave any room for error. I personally love the 7mm-08. Heavier bullet,same kick. and can kill a deer out to 300-ish with even a mediocre shooter looking through the scope. Stick with the /06. you will be glad you did. Look at the reduced recoil loads that remington and federal now have. They make your /06 kick like a 30-30, and can kill a deer out to around 200 yds.

[PowerPointPlus]

I can control the 30-06 well. I can shoot an 1 1/2 inch groups with it a 100yards! I am very accomplished with my 30-06 7400. Recoil is no problem, what I meant by saying "less recoil" is just that the 223 has little to no recoil. My point was that If I can get th same performance out of a smaller, less recoiling caliber, I was going to go for it. Sorry for the confusion on that. I'm not recoil sensitive. Thanks for posting and I encourage yawll to continue, Thanks!
-Tubbert Bilphus Raymond Jr

[Pred]

I'm sorry, I just don't agree with using a .223 for deer hunting. The idea behind hitting a deer is the same as a human, one shot one kill. When I go deer hunting I want to make sure the first round takes it down and theres as little suffering as possible. The last thing I want to do is take a round that is on the border line of being able to take a person down, hit the deer and have it suffer for hours while I look for it, even then hoping I can find it. This is ridiculous. Why would you want to take an AR over a .30-06 or a .308? So you look cool when your hunting buddies show up and you have six 30 rounders in your bag? So you think of yourself as "in combat"? Cheaper ammo? To save your shoulder? And at what cost... Oh, its just a deer, they don't feel anything. It's just an animal, who cares if they suffer a little. While we're at it, lets take a .410 duck hunting. Has to come down sometime right? Now, if I've offended anyone, well I really don't care right now. Lets test it, go put a .223 into your gut and sit down and see how long you suffer for. During this time ask yourself, “Should I have used a .308 instead?”

[USMC]

Originally Posted by Pred

I'm sorry, I just don't agree with using a .223 for deer hunting. The idea behind hitting a deer is the same as a human, one shot one kill. When I go deer hunting I want to make sure the first round takes it down and theres as little suffering as possible. The last thing I want to do is take a round that is on the border line of being able to take a person down, hit the deer and have it suffer for hours while I look for it, even then hoping I can find it. This is ridiculous. Why would you want to take an AR over a .30-06 or a .308? So you look cool when your hunting buddies show up and you have six 30 rounders in your bag? So you think of yourself as "in combat"? Cheaper ammo? To save your shoulder? And at what cost... Oh, its just a deer, they don't feel anything. It's just an animal, who cares if they suffer a little. While we're at it, lets take a .410 duck hunting. Has to come down sometime right? Now, if I've offended anyone, well I really don't care right now. Lets test it, go put a .223 into your gut and sit down and see how long you suffer for. During this time ask yourself, “Should I have used a .308 instead?”

Well you can disagree all you want but how many deer have you seen shot or seen shot with .223? I've seen at least 10 deer shot with 223 and some of those I shot and I have never seen one lay there and suffer(All have been One shot One kill). In fact everyone was dead within seconds. Funny thing is sometimes I use my Remington 300 ultra mag and I have shot deer with it that have ran 500 yards before they fall and then they still take 30 minutes to die. I've seen the same with .308. Piss poor shot placement is what leads to animals suffering not the caliber. Any gut shot animal is going to suffer including humans no matter what caliber you use unless your using 50 BMG. Well there you have it, It is inhumane to hunt with anything other than 50 BMG if anyone listens to your reasoning. You say you don't care if anyone is offended, Well I say your "lets test it" theory is one of the dumbest comments I've ever seen on a firearms forum and a pretty irresponsible statement at that and you deserve to be told so. I'll admit that the .223 isn't the best caliber but a competent hunter and shooter can use it humanely to hunt small to medium deer and anyone who plans to include me in this category: "So you look cool when your hunting buddies show up and you have six 30 rounders in your bag? So you think of yourself as "in combat"? Cheaper ammo? To save your shoulder?" Is full of S*#T and I'm not going to allow it. I've done my time in the Corps and have nothing to prove to my buddies and I don't have to pretend about combat so I say to you: if your offended then I really don't care right now either.

[FutureMarine]

well the perfect combo is good shot placement with a .30-06. IMHO of course

edited to say:

PowerPointPlus :

You say that recoil isnt bothering you and you shoot great with a .30-06, and you have a .30-06, so whats the problem? sounds like you would be fine hunting with it...

[Beer Forever]

I got a couple white tail with a .300 Win Mag and they were dead instantly, but around here you can kill a white tail with a paintball gun

[DWARREN123]

Deer have been taken with all types of firearms and in all calibers and gauges. The main thing is if you are comfortable with your ability to put down the animal in a humane manner with the firearm used.

[at4rxj]

I agree with DWARREN. Of course you can kill a deer with a .223. Of course it can be done cleanly and humanely. Yes, a bigger caliber will do a better job 9 times out of 10, but of course a deer can suffer after getting hit with a bigger caliber too.

Perhaps a good compromise would be to go with the .243 wssm or .25 wssm upper for your AR. You'll still have your .223 for plinking, then throw on the hunting upper and go hunt. Just a thought.

I say if you have the '06 and you're comfortable with it, stick with that, just because of the extra power. If it is too much, and you're that confident in your hunting abilities, go for the .223. It can be done without a doubt. Just remember, any animal deserves to die quickly and cleanly.

[Pred]

Originally Posted by USMC

Well you can disagree all you want but how many deer have you seen shot or seen shot with .223? I've seen at least 10 deer shot with 223 and some of those I shot and I have never seen one lay there and suffer(All have been One shot One kill). In fact everyone was dead within seconds. Funny thing is sometimes I use my Remington 300 ultra mag and I have shot deer with it that have ran 500 yards before they fall and then they still take 30 minutes to die. I've seen the same with .308. Piss poor shot placement is what leads to animals suffering not the caliber. Any gut shot animal is going to suffer including humans no matter what caliber you use unless your using 50 BMG. Well there you have it, It is inhumane to hunt with anything other than 50 BMG if anyone listens to your reasoning. You say you don't care if anyone is offended, Well I say your "lets test it" theory is one of the dumbest comments I've ever seen on a firearms forum and a pretty irresponsible statement at that and you deserve to be told so. I'll admit that the .223 isn't the best caliber but a competent hunter and shooter can use it humanely to hunt small to medium deer and anyone who plans to include me in this category: "So you look cool when your hunting buddies show up and you have six 30 rounders in your bag? So you think of yourself as "in combat"? Cheaper ammo? To save your shoulder?" Is full of S*#T and I'm not going to allow it. I've done my time in the Corps and have nothing to prove to my buddies and I don't have to pretend about combat so I say to you: if your offended then I really don't care right now either.

Well, let me first start by saying that when I wrote my last post I was having a bad day, and should have kept some of that to myself. I really don't care what you say or what you've done, I still don't agree with using a .223 for deer hunting, we'll just agree to disagree. And I'll agree that shot placement means more then anything. NOW.... If you would have paid attention to what I wrote, I never said using a .308 means zero chance of suffering, simply the length of the suffering wouldn't be as great. However this does go back to shot placement as you said. My "Lets test it comment" wasn't dumb or irresponsible however. In case you forgot, deer feel pain just as we humans do. My POINT was that a piss poor shot with a .223 and a piss poor shot with a .308 produce different results, leaving a little more room for error. This, once again, goes back to length of suffering. I don't know how good of a shot you are, but you sound like your great. If so, good job, I'm happy for you, but not everyone would have your training or time behind a weapon. So a piss poor shot by your standards may be a good shot by someone elses. To your "not going to allow it" comment, I simply . I say thank you for your time to our country, and I'm glad you don't have anything to prove, but once again everyone is not you. Don't worry, you didn't offend me.

[BORIS]

I won't address any one person, but if you, yep you the one reading this were to go sit in a car made for racing like in NASCAR, could you go out and drive with the big boys?

Now sit there and think about that, you can do it (think that is).

A good, proper shot with a 5.56mm or .223" WILL kill a deer. A larger more "powerful" (I can pee farther than you) caliber with a poor shot is not a magic wand.

I use a .355 caliber pistol that holds 15 rounds in the magazine, and have dropped small deer upto 150 pounds and smaller with one shot. With 40% of the total energy at the muzzle as some experts "require" at 100 yards.

One can read and speculate all they want, this is no substitution for experience.