Dpms

[Doctor Larry K]

Need some opinions on the .223 Caliber "Panther" AP4 carbine.
It has the 16" chrome moly bbl.

I don't know anything about the Ar15 rifles. Is this rifle normally reliable, durable, and accurate?

In their literature it makes reference to .5.56 Nato and .223 ammo. Is this the same ammo and will using one or the other be detrimental to the rifle should I decide to buy it. Target use only! Any and all info appreciated.
Links?

Doc

[SilentSoul]

I have heard some bad things about quality of DPMS.

.223 and 5.56 nato are basically the same round BUT to make it easy the 5.56 fires at a much higher pressure than the 223

The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington.

That is why RRA came up with their .223 wylde chambering so both can be shot in the rifle. The easy thing to do. If you want to shoot military ammo and 223 just make sure that your lower and barrel are chambered for 5.56. If it can handle the 5.56 it an handle the 223

[SilverRun]

Originally Posted by Doctor Larry K

Is this rifle normally reliable, durable, and accurate?
Doc

Yes, Yes and Yes.

I get tired of these type reviews " I have heard some bad things about quality of DPMS. " From where, Who? The DPMS rifles are made to industry specs. They are very fine rifles. These "bad reviews" typically come from people who have likely never shot a DPMS. Most paid about $500 too much for their AR with a fancier logo on the side and feel the need to justify why they spent all that extra money. AR's are standardized and the parts freely interchange? There are some differences in the quality of barrels and lowers, but DPMS uses a forged lower and good barrels.

I have DPMS AR's and other AR's. The only difference I see are the logo's. I have looked at several of the high dollar AR's and couldn't see much difference. If you were asking about a competition grade AR then yes the high dollar AR's would give you that last little bit of accuracy. But for a field grade rifle the DPMS will do fine.

In summary, after getting of my soap box, get the DPMS - you will not be disappointed.

[SilentSoul]

Look I wasn't giving a review all I said was in my reading and looking while I was buying parts for my AR I found that people seem to talk down DPMS. Bad fit and finish was one of the reasons I kept hearing about I even looked at a panther first hand and the finish on the lower left a lot to be desired. Now this was a privately owned firearm so maybe he had taken brake clean to it, who knows. If you like DPMS AR then shoot the damn thing.
I went with a stag lower and a Delton upper, the fit is almost to damn tight, but that is ok with me. I don't want to worry about my rifle shimmying. So I don't have a Ar with a fancier logo that I paid to much for.

[Darkfront]

I own a DPMS AR as well, and I have nothing to say but good things about it. DPMS used to be a consultant and a contractor for the US Government (DPMS stands for Defense Procurement Manufacturing Supplier). Most of their rifles are made to mil-spec standards where applicable. The AP4 is listed as a 5.56 chambered rifle so you'll be able to use either 5.56x45 or the .223. I would email them to make sure though.

[Mooseman684]

Get one chambered for 5.56 mm and you can safely shoot .223 ammo...It is a chamber throat difference.
Rich

[SilverRun]

Originally Posted by SilentSoul

Look I wasn't giving a review all I said was in my reading and looking while I was buying parts for my AR I found that people seem to talk down DPMS. Bad fit and finish was one of the reasons I kept hearing about I even looked at a panther first hand and the finish on the lower left a lot to be desired. Now this was a privately owned firearm so maybe he had taken brake clean to it, who knows. If you like DPMS AR then shoot the damn thing.
I went with a stag lower and a Delton upper, the fit is almost to damn tight, but that is ok with me. I don't want to worry about my rifle shimmying. So I don't have a Ar with a fancier logo that I paid to much for.

Man I don't care what you shoot or if you trash DPMS (I don't get a commission from DPMS sales). All I said was I don't like the "I heard this" type reviews. If you have first hand information share it - like in your second post. I don't care if you said that you saw a DPMS fall into a 100 different pieces - all I am saying is just don't say "I heard" that one fell into 100 different pieces. If you would read a little closer before you start cursing at me you would see that I said "typically" and used the third person when making my statements. I didn't direct anything at you or attack you - I didn't even directly quote you. Lighten up

[Doctor Larry K]

I didn't mean to start any argument, and I'm sorry for that. I spent a couple of hours yesterday trying to learn my new rifle. I also got a holographic sight, but its not of the best quality ( CNC Precision Optics, Variable 4 dot reticle).
I'll be shooting .223 only so I should be safe.
Thanks for all the info guys and stay cool and safe.

Doc

[Dookiebutt]

I have a DPMS lower. No problems ever. I have fired 223 and 5.56.

[Pred]

Well, just because, I'll tell you why I don't like DPMS. For one, their overpriced. There is no reason their stuff should be more then RRA stuff, but it is. Because it's no where near the quality. Second, I HATE their lower parts and triggers. RRA makes one of the best single stage triggers for an AR. You compare it to Double Star, DPMS, and yes, even the great and powerful Bushmaster, you will see it's a much smoother trigger. Oh, and I "heard" they have illegal immigrants working in their factory, and I heard they get their metal from China. I've also heard they've got some flying monkeys that take the barrels from one end to the other. Whats it matter what I or anyone else have "heard". If 5 people tell me they've had bad experiences with DPMS, then I'm not going to run out and buy one. I will then put DPMS on my "do not use" list. If then I get first hand experience with DPMS and it works great, fine, it's off the list. But, so far I haven't. It's a preference, thats it.

[knightRider]

i own 2 dpms and thier great i also own a colt sp1 ar 15 and a doble star ar 15 . Dpms make great guns .

[SilentSoul]

Originally Posted by SilverRun

Man I don't care what you shoot or if you trash DPMS (I don't get a commission from DPMS sales). All I said was I don't like the "I heard this" type reviews. If you have first hand information share it - like in your second post. I don't care if you said that you saw a DPMS fall into a 100 different pieces - all I am saying is just don't say "I heard" that one fell into 100 different pieces. If you would read a little closer before you start cursing at me you would see that I said "typically" and used the third person when making my statements. I didn't direct anything at you or attack you - I didn't even directly quote you. Lighten up

Word of mouth is one of the most powerful ways to get a product recognized, for good or bad. When I'm buying something I want to know first hand what peoples experience is, as well as anything they have seen or heard from other shooters and enthusiast. If you don't like the "I heards" then don't heed them. But that is what makes forums so great and so bad, you get a vast amount of knowledge some true some untrue. It is up to you to use your resources and wade through what is real and what isn't.
I've heard toys from China have lead based paint on them, haven't seen it first hand, just what I hear.

[jashoffa]

More or less I think most AR manufactures are pretty good over all. I have a RRA on order. Why? Because while most are pretty good RRA seems to make the rest of them look like they are running in slow motion. The main complaint I have "heard" is RRA has too long a lead time. Tells me they are in demand. I don't think I have heard anything bad about RRA.

DPMS has had some mixed reviews. Doesn't mean they are bad just the way it is. I don't have any experiance with DPMS so I can't say anything good or bad about them. Lots of people don't like Fords, They are this or that...that is fine, mine runs pretty good and I don't have any problems with them. I have a taurus with over 150,000 miles on it. Still runs like a raped ape. DPMS, Bushmaster, RRA, just like Chevy, Dodge and Ford some like 'em some hate 'em others buy something else. Personally I say Trade for a Ford and buy a RRA! But that is me!

[SilverRun]

Originally Posted by SilentSoul

Word of mouth is one of the most powerful ways to get a product recognized, for good or bad. When I'm buying something I want to know first hand what peoples experience is, as well as anything they have seen or heard from other shooters and enthusiast. If you don't like the "I heards" then don't heed them. But that is what makes forums so great and so bad, you get a vast amount of knowledge some true some untrue. It is up to you to use your resources and wade through what is real and what isn't.
I've heard toys from China have lead based paint on them, haven't seen it first hand, just what I hear.

OK you make some valid points, so long as the third hand information is qualified as such - I suppose there may be some value to it. I still personally don't put much stock into it. Truce?

Pred - you can leave the sarcasm at home. I am not impressed.

[Pred]

Originally Posted by SilverRun

the sarcasm at home. I am not impressed.

I'm sorry Silver, I really didn't mean to give you the impression I was trying to impress you. I could care less what you feel or think about my posts and content within. Point is someone said they don't like DPMS, you threw a sissy fit because you didn't like their opinion. Get over yourself, seriously. Do you like all (insert number here) flavors of ice cream at your local shop? If you don't, how dare you, why do you not like them all? That is the exact same reaction you had about someone not liking DPMS. So, after either kicking your soap box out from under you, or shoving you off, everyone, get whatever type of AR you want. Get a DPMS, get a RRA, Bushmaster, Colt, Double Star. Build your own, it doesn't matter, get what your comfortable with, and what you can afford. But to everyone else, when someone asks what you think of a rifle, tell the truth, but at the same time, don't act like a kid who just got his lolly pop taken away if someone doesn't like your "favorite" logo, enough said. Now, on a personal note, I'm really not trying to get on anyones bad side here, but please don't get upset because someone doesn't like your brand. It's no different then getting upset because someone likes wheat over white, or turkey over ham. It's a preference, an opinion. If you don't like what someone else likes, or get upset each time someones doesn't agree with YOUR opinion, well, you get the point.

[SilverRun]

It is apparent that your reading comprehension skills are really challenged. If you look back up the thread, you will see that I have already said that I don't care what brand of AR you like. I was attempting to make a whole different point. Apparently, some here are interested in third-hand, hearsay information - so I have backed off my original point.

Now on to other matters, anytime you feel like kicking me off my soap box or anything else - get in your car and drive on down here and give it your best shot. You stuck your nose in the middle of a discussion that I and Silentsoul were having - looking to pick a fight. Well you succeeded. So, don't whine and get bent outa shape about something you started.

[Pred]

Ok there kid, whatever you say. As far as I can tell my reading skills are just fine. I get your point. You like DPMS, you own a few, and they work great for you. Cool, I'm happy for you. If you were in front of me right now I'd give you a cookie and tell you how great you and your fine AR's are. Happy now? I also got your second point, that unless you've got hands on experience with DPMS, don't you dare say a bad word about them.

Originally Posted by SilverRun

I get tired of these type reviews " I have heard some bad things about quality of DPMS. " From where, Who? The DPMS rifles are made to industry specs. They are very fine rifles. These "bad reviews" typically come from people who have likely never shot a DPMS.

Originally Posted by SilverRun

get the DPMS - you will not be disappointed.

Originally Posted by SilverRun

All I said was I don't like the "I heard this" type reviews. If you have first hand information share it - like in your second post. I don't care if you said that you saw a DPMS fall into a 100 different pieces - all I am saying is just don't say "I heard" that one fell into 100 different pieces.

Then the next thing you say, your suddenly ok with "word of mouth". And again, I'm not the one getting bent out of shape and whining, you are. Whining about how much you love DPMS and hate people who have opinions on things they don't have first hand knowledge of. I get it, I get it. Did I stick my nose in it, maybe a little. But no more then to simply call you on some BS argument on opinions. And frankly, gas is to much for me to waste my time driving down to, well, wherever it is you live.

[bored2bhere]

Originally Posted by Doctor Larry K

Need some opinions on the .223 Caliber "Panther" AP4 carbine.
It has the 16" chrome moly bbl.

I don't know anything about the Ar15 rifles. Is this rifle normally reliable, durable, and accurate?

In their literature it makes reference to .5.56 Nato and .223 ammo. Is this the same ammo and will using one or the other be detrimental to the rifle should I decide to buy it. Target use only! Any and all info appreciated.
Links?

Doc

ive got one it is fine no quality problems reliable accurate just a good rifle i reccomend it

[Pred]

Ok, let me put this in the simplest terms. If you go buy a brand new AR-15. Your going to pay somewhere between $750-$1200 depending on what you get, with what barrel, sights, things like that. DPMS, RRA, Stag, Double Star, Bushmaster, they all fall somewhere within that price range. Besides DIE HARD DPMS fans, your not going to find anyone who would take a DPMS over a RRA, Stag, or Bushmaster AR. RRA and Stag make some of THE BEST AR's you will ever find. There is no argument to this. If your wanting a quality, accurate, dependable AR-15, buy a complete Stag or RRA rifle. If you wanting to build your own, this whole thread is FUBAR. I take that back, this whole thread is FUBAR anyways. Each company has it's pluses and minuses. For Double Star it's their lower parts. For Stag, it's the virtual non selection of stuff(basically you can get an M4 profile upper and a standard 20" upper). For DPMS, it's their lower parts(and the fact their prices reflect that of top line AR's when they are not). Bushmaster and Colt are way to high for what they are, they are no better then Stag and RRA. And for RRA, well, the fact that there is such a long wait on their stuff, and anyone outside of a dealer wants to jack their prices up to equal that of Colt. Silver, I can respect the love you have for DPMS, and I'm sorry I disagree with you, I really am. My whole point in this tread was calling you on not considering opinions "reliable" sources. The truth is, everything is an opinion. You like DPMS, thats yours, I don't, thats mine. The editors of Guns and Ammo like/dislike DPMS, thats their opinion, cool. But don't discredit someone because their opinion does not match yours, which is exactly what you tried to do.

[bored2bhere]

picky are we

the point is mute