Safe or Not

[Doctor Larry K]

In looking through my ammo closet I came across 200 rounds of the following ammo:
20 rounds boxes of Russian made .223 ammo (5.56x45mm.)
L.C.B 56 Gr FMJ
Boxer Primed (Non-Corr, Steel case.

This stuff has to be 15+ years old, maybe more. There appears to be a lacquer paint on the case of the bullet, as it is very shiney.

The cardboard box has all of the above printed on it, plus it says TCW Ammo.

I just got a new DPMS Panther chambered for 5.56 as yet unfired.

Should I be careful in using these bullets in my new rifle.

I also found 100 rounds of .223 Remington I had previously bought for my Mini-14. I hate to dispose of 200 rounds of unknown ammo, conversely I hate to KaBoom my new rifle.

Any info, suggestions appreciated.

Doc

[stitchclimber]

I'd break the rifle in with ammo that you're familiar with. Then I'd toss the old stuff in. But not until I ran a few hundred rounds through the gun.

[rckymtnboy]

As long as the ammo has been kept in a dry environment, it should be ok. If you're uncomfortable with shooting it though, it's always safest to just dispose of it...but you'll have to do it properly. Check with your local waste disposal regulations.

[knightRider]

dont trash it ship it to me !

[Big Dog]

Check at your local range - someone will buy it in a New York Second!

[Mooseman684]

If the ammo is dry Stored, It will be just fine as far as shootable. I personally would fire 2 Boxes of the Russian ammo thru it the first time and examine the steel cases . Then try the Brass cased ammo, examine the casings. I look for scratches which can Be a Burr or a rough surface in the chamber. If the weapon functions with both Brands you should be good to go with all commercial ammo.
Rich

[at4rxj]

The 223 is not as hot as the 5.56 so if that's your concern you'll be fine. As far as the age, as everyone has said, if it was dry it will be fine.

[Orlando]

Chambers cut to .223 Remington specifications have a shorter leade (throat) area as well as slightly shorter headspace dimensions compared to 5.56 mm "military" chamber specs, which contributes to the pressure issues

[Darkfront]

Lacquered case ammo will void the DPMS warranty, FYI. It's in the back of the DPMS manual.

[SilverRun]

The lacquer would be my only concern. I don't see where it would hurt anything, but I suspect it would be a pain to clean and may jam. I shoot wolf poly coated in my DPMS with no problems, but I have never tried any lacquer coated.

[Mooseman684]

Originally Posted by Darkfront

Lacquered case ammo will void the DPMS warranty, FYI. It's in the back of the DPMS manual.

Where does it say that ?

Three Year Limited Warranty
This DPMS/Panther Arms firearm is warranted to the original retail customer for Three Years from the date of purchase against defects in material and workmanship. All parts and labor or replacement at our option are covered.

Transportation to and from our repair facilities, government fees, damage caused by failure to perform normal maintenance, sales outside the United States, damage due to high velocity, high pressure, reloaded, or other non-standard ammunition, or any unauthorized repair, modification, misuse, abuse, or alteration of the product is not covered by this limited warranty.

Any implied warranties, including the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose, are limited to one year from date of purchase. Consequential or incidental damages and/or expenses, or any other expenses are not covered by this warranty.

To obtain warranty performance send your firearm with proof of retail purchase, freight prepaid to:

DPMS/Panther Arms
3312 12 Street SE
St. Cloud, MN, 56304

Alterations & Modifications Warning
Altering or modifying parts is dangerous and will void the warranty. This DPMS/Panther Arms rifle was manufactured to perform properly with the original parts as designed. It is your duty to make sure any parts you buy are made for this rifle and are installed correctly and that neither the originals nor the replacements are altered or changed. Your DPMS/Panther Arms rifle is a complex precision tool with many parts that must relate correctly with other parts in order for proper and safe operation. Putting a rifle together wrong or with incorrect or modified parts can result in a damaged rifle, serious personal injury or death to you and others through malfunction. Always have a qualified gunsmith work on your rifle or at least check any work not performed by a gunsmith.

Barrel Information Warning
To achieve the best results for accuracy you should clean the chamber and bore after every round for the first 25 rounds, then every 10 rounds up to 100 rounds. It usually takes about 200 rounds per barrel for optimum accuracy. Please keep in mind that our barrels are production barrels, not custom barrels. Accuracy is dependent upon many factors such as bullet weight, powder load, rifling twist, rifling lands, operator technique, etc. Our production barrels have achieved anywhere from .125" to 1.5" M.O.A.. Obviously, we would hope that every production barrel would shoot .5" M.O.A., but with all of the above factors, we cannot guarantee a specific group size. NOTE: Using reloaded ammunition will void warranty. Modifying chamber or barrel voids warranty. This includes re-reaming of chamber, re-turning barrel to a lesser diameter and/or re-threading barrel for compensator or attachments.

A Note on Receiver Fit
DPMS lowers have been designed for a tight fit between the upper and lower. You may find that the rear takedown pin hole may need to be polished or honed. We feel that a tight fit is better than a loose fit. We hope you agree.

[Darkfront]

On the page after Alterations & Modifications there's a page (page 37) labeled Ammunition Warning. 3/4's the way through the page it says in bold:

"Please note that the use of re-loaded ammunition voids the factory warranty as well as the use of the above-mentioned types of ammunition"


It specifically mentions Lacquer coated ammunition or steel cased, lacquer coated ammunition. Not sure if it also applies to polymer coated.

EDIT: I just noticed that you also put up the Barrel Information section. In my manual, the ammunition warning is between the Alterations & Modifications and the Barrel Information. Maybe you have an older manual? I just got mine this summer.

[gunney_m]

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

Where does it say that ?

Three Year Limited Warranty
This DPMS/Panther Arms firearm is warranted to the original retail customer for Three Years from the date of purchase against defects in material and workmanship. All parts and labor or replacement at our option are covered.

Transportation to and from our repair facilities, government fees, damage caused by failure to perform normal maintenance, sales outside the United States, damage due to high velocity, high pressure, reloaded, or other non-standard ammunition, or any unauthorized repair, modification, misuse, abuse, or alteration of the product is not covered by this limited warranty.

Any implied warranties, including the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose, are limited to one year from date of purchase. Consequential or incidental damages and/or expenses, or any other expenses are not covered by this warranty.

To obtain warranty performance send your firearm with proof of retail purchase, freight prepaid to:

DPMS/Panther Arms
3312 12 Street SE
St. Cloud, MN, 56304

Alterations & Modifications Warning
Altering or modifying parts is dangerous and will void the warranty. This DPMS/Panther Arms rifle was manufactured to perform properly with the original parts as designed. It is your duty to make sure any parts you buy are made for this rifle and are installed correctly and that neither the originals nor the replacements are altered or changed. Your DPMS/Panther Arms rifle is a complex precision tool with many parts that must relate correctly with other parts in order for proper and safe operation. Putting a rifle together wrong or with incorrect or modified parts can result in a damaged rifle, serious personal injury or death to you and others through malfunction. Always have a qualified gunsmith work on your rifle or at least check any work not performed by a gunsmith.

Barrel Information Warning
To achieve the best results for accuracy you should clean the chamber and bore after every round for the first 25 rounds, then every 10 rounds up to 100 rounds. It usually takes about 200 rounds per barrel for optimum accuracy. Please keep in mind that our barrels are production barrels, not custom barrels. Accuracy is dependent upon many factors such as bullet weight, powder load, rifling twist, rifling lands, operator technique, etc. Our production barrels have achieved anywhere from .125" to 1.5" M.O.A.. Obviously, we would hope that every production barrel would shoot .5" M.O.A., but with all of the above factors, we cannot guarantee a specific group size. NOTE: Using reloaded ammunition will void warranty. Modifying chamber or barrel voids warranty. This includes re-reaming of chamber, re-turning barrel to a lesser diameter and/or re-threading barrel for compensator or attachments.

A Note on Receiver Fit
DPMS lowers have been designed for a tight fit between the upper and lower. You may find that the rear takedown pin hole may need to be polished or honed. We feel that a tight fit is better than a loose fit. We hope you agree.

What he said

[Darkfront]

Finally found it. I knew I wasn't crazy. This was posted on the DPMS website, and in the back of my manual. DPMS: AR-15 Rifles, Parts and Accessories.




Ammunition Warning

Due to a number of calls and comments concerning AR-type rifles, we have incurred feeding problems with the following:

1. • Israeli ammunition
   • Korean ammunition
   We have heard and reviewed several reports of problems with many manufacturers' rifles using this ammunition. The problem appears to be the bullet contour and the overall length of the cartridge, which is contacting the rifling before firing. This is creating a gas port pressure and chamber pressure higher than recommended, therefore causing feeding and extraction problems due to the increased bolt carrier velocity. In addition, there is accelerated fatigue on internal parts. There are also indications that brass may be oversized, which could create an unsafe condition.
2. • PMP
   • South African produced surplus
   We have used this ammunition in the past for testing purposes and found the brass is extremely soft and can "flow" into microscopic pores and grooves in the chamber creating "sticky" extraction. This has been reported in many types of rifles, but is more prevalent in semi-automatic weapons.
   
3. • Lacquer Coated Ammunition or Steel-cased, lacquer coated ammunition
   The problem with this ammunition is that the lacquer coating on the case. As the barrel heats up, the lacquer turns to a soft, varnish substance and upon cool down, becomes very solid and difficult to remove. This effectively creates an undersized chamber and creates understandable problems.
   

DPMS recommends the use of high quality, domestically produced ammunition for best results and highest accuracy. For plinking and practice, we recommend only domestic, commercially manufactured ammunition or high quality surplus NATO specification ammunition.
Please note that the use of re-loaded ammunition voids the factory warranty as well as the use of the above-mentioned types of ammunition. Your rifle is an investment and it only makes sense to choose quality ammunition for a quality rifle!
Barrel Information

To achieve the best results for accuracy you should clean the chamber and bore after every round for the first 25 rounds and then every 10 rounds up to the 100 rounds. It usually takes about 200 rounds per barrel for optimum accuracy. Please keep in mind that our barrels are production barrels not custom barrels. Accuracy is dependant upon many factors such as bullet weight, powder load, rifling twist, rifling lands, operator technique, etc. Our production barrels have achieved anywhere from 1/8" to 1 ½" M.O.A. Obviously, we would hope that every production barrel would shoot 1/8" M.O.A., but with all of the above factors, we cannot guarantee a specific group size.