Bushmaster AR-15 loading problem

[Texan]

Maybe somebody here can help me. I have a fairly new Bushmaster AR-15 that has problems loading from the mag. I can shoot 2 rounds and then it jams. The second bullet clears the chamber but the 3rd will hang and get jammed by the bolt between the mag and the receiver. I have to remove the mag, pull the charging lever and the bullet falls out. It will not chamber that 3rd round.

I first thought it was maybe the bolt was jamming so I cleaned it real good and that seemed to work. Went out to the range and NO jams. Then this past weekend went out and bang, bang, click. I WAS shooting Wolf ammo in a poly mag...switched to American ammo and a steel mag. NO difference... Went to see a gunsmith yesterday but he's 3-4 weeks behind.

Ya know I kinda remember this being a problem back in the '60s but can't remember what we did to remedy the problem other than throw it down and pick up an AK. So thought maybe my new friends here might have an idea.

A big thanks in advance,
o~\o

[CrazyIvan]

Does the steel mag you switched to have a green or black follower? The black follower was an old one from the 70's and is not as reliable as the newer green one.

Also, perhaps the ejector is bad or worn. Check it out.

[Texan]

Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

Does the steel mag you switched to have a green or black follower? The black follower was an old one from the 70's and is not as reliable as the newer green one.

Also, perhaps the ejector is bad or worn. Check it out.

Okay, Ivan, two good clues. The followers in the poly and the steel mags are black. Am going to be talking to Cheaper Than Dirt this afternoon on a couple another items so will throw some green ones in my cart.

As far as the ejector...this gun is brand new but is an older gun that was in an estate. The owner told me the gun had been out of the box maybe 4-5 times but never fired...and it looked it when I bought it. BUT that's not saying the ejector isn't bad. Another item for the cart.

Thanks,
o~\o

[Pred]

Did you COMPLETELY disassemble the bolt? Unless the rifle has had a decent amount of ammo through it I don't think the ejector is worn/bad. Are you sure the bolt is Bushmaster?

[Texan]

Originally Posted by Pred

Did you COMPLETELY disassemble the bolt? Unless the rifle has had a decent amount of ammo through it I don't think the ejector is worn/bad. Are you sure the bolt is Bushmaster?

Yes, I took the bolt completely apart after the first time I fired it or tried to fire it. I DIDN'T take completely apart after the last time, the time it didn't mis-fire... Hm-m-m-m-m!!!!!! Ya might be on to something here Sherlock..!!!!

Knowing if it's a Bushmaster bolt...no. Guess I can pull it out and see if there are any markings on it. You know that's a good point.

Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

Does the steel mag you switched to have a green or black follower? The black follower was an old one from the 70's and is not as reliable as the newer green one. Also, perhaps the ejector is bad or worn. Check it out.

Another good suggestion Ivan.. I know for a fact that the followers in both the poly and the steel are black. Am calling Cheaper Than Dirt this afternoon will add that to my cart with my other stuff.

Thanks..
o~\o

[LarryO1970]

I am in agreement with CrazyIvan... I'd try a new magazine, seems there is a feed issue there. I really think using NEW magazines will do the trick... something tells me the magazine spring is shot.

Also, I would not use wolf ammo in an AR... the steel casings and the coating on the casings has caused a lot of problems for a lot of AR people on this board. Admittedly, some people have no problems at all... but personally, I do not use the stuff.

[CrazyIvan]

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

Also, I would not use wolf ammo in an AR... the steel casings and the coating on the casings has caused a lot of problems for a lot of AR people on this board. Admittedly, some people have no problems at all... but personally, I do not use the stuff.

I had a thorough discussion with the AK/AR vendor I go to. He says he has guys bring in their rifles who admittedly use steel-cased ammo. He says they never show any more wear than those which use brass. He does admit that if you are heating up your rifle to very high temperatures (usually only seen at repeated full-auto fire), then you may have a problem to worry about. But for the average leisure shooter, the steel casings are fine.

A few things he did make a point of stating:

1. You should have a chromed barrel
2. Use only Zinc & Non-Corrosive steel ammo
3. Keep up with your rifle cleaning & oiling

He said you will still get 25-30,000 rounds out of your barrel with nominal accuracy degredation, but to save .10-.20 cents per round over 30,000 rounds, it is worth it to only spend $140 to get your barrel re-chromed.

He did say that the Yugo AK's did not like steel cased ammo and every rifle off the same line will treat ammo differently (obviously). So, try steel cased. If it works, congrats, you can save some money. If not, then at least you know.

As valuable as the opinions and experiences of G&G members here are, I will take the experience of soeone who deals with these weapons on a daily basis over "just one guy's opinion."

I bought 2 boxes each of 3 different brands. I'm going to try them out as soon as the weather is a bit warmer.

[Pred]

Wolf ammo is dirty, I'll give ya that. But I use it in my AR and it runs fine. Now my brother-in-law used some and had problems with his. It was a Bushmaster upper on a Double Star lower/BCG. Personally I only use CMT and LMT(next build) M16 bolt carrier groups.

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

I had a thorough discussion with the AK/AR vendor I go to. He says he has guys bring in their rifles who admittedly use steel-cased ammo. He says they never show any more wear than those which use brass. He does admit that if you are heating up your rifle to very high temperatures (usually only seen at repeated full-auto fire), then you may have a problem to worry about. But for the average leisure shooter, the steel casings are fine.

A few things he did make a point of stating:

1. You should have a chromed barrel
2. Use only Zinc & Non-Corrosive steel ammo
3. Keep up with your rifle cleaning & oiling

He said you will still get 25-30,000 rounds out of your barrel with nominal accuracy degredation, but to save .10-.20 cents per round over 30,000 rounds, it is worth it to only spend $140 to get your barrel re-chromed.

He did say that the Yugo AK's did not like steel cased ammo and every rifle off the same line will treat ammo differently (obviously). So, try steel cased. If it works, congrats, you can save some money. If not, then at least you know.

I bought 2 boxes each of 3 different brands. I'm going to try them out as soon as the weather is a bit warmer.

I work with a retired Army armorer/Firearms instructor for the police departments in the area. They are finding a lot of failures with the extractors of AR's due to the differences in expansive properties of steel vs. brass. The extractors are simply breaking and the round is stuck in the chamber.That is where the wear becomes an issue. He is also seeing a lot of people using Wolf ammo in Glocks, Sigs, Springfield XD's and others... who are experiencing issues with "stovepipe jams" and failures with magazines due to the coating on the steel cased stuff. These are his experiences, his words, not mine.

Will it happen every time, no, it will not. As a cop and a military member, I want that AR/M4 to go "boom" instead of make no noise at all. My life demands dependability out of my rifle...

Will Wolf always jam, break or hinder an AR, no it probably will not... but personally, I'm not taking that chance.

[lefty o]

nobody re-chrome's barrels, you just throw 'em away!

[CrazyIvan]

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

I work with a retired Army armorer/Firearms instructor for the police departments in the area. They are finding a lot of failures with the extractors of AR's due to the differences in expansive properties of steel vs. brass. The extractors are simply breaking and the round is stuck in the chamber.That is where the wear becomes an issue. He is also seeing a lot of people using Wolf ammo in Glocks, Sigs, Springfield XD's and others... who are experiencing issues with "stovepipe jams" and failures with magazines due to the coating on the steel cased stuff. These are his experiences, his words, not mine.

Will it happen every time, no, it will not. As a cop and a military member, I want that AR/M4 to go "boom" instead of make no noise at all. My life demands dependability out of my rifle...

Will Wolf always jam, break or hinder an AR, no it probably will not... but personally, I'm not taking that chance.

Well of course I have expensive, quality stuff locked & loaded in my firearms when they are being used as a self-defense mechanism. But, for shooting at the range for fun, If I can use the cheap stuff and have it work fine, I will.

[LarryO1970]

Texan ... did any of the advice help solve your loading/chambering problem?

[Texan]

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

Texan ... did any of the advice help solve your loading/chambering problem?

I cleaned the AR totally, real good. I DID notice the bolt was a little tight in the carrier. I really lubed it well and loosened it up quite a bit.

I haven't been able to find any green followers locally. Cheaper Than Dirt has them on back order, same with J&G. I'm planning to head out to the range tomorrow to see if the cleaning I gave it is the answer. Ya know maybe this Wolf/Bear ammo is really that dirty and have to give it a dang good cleaning every time.

Will update with tested.

o~\o

[billt]

For what it's worth my last 2 Bushmasters I purchased were shipped with 30 round magazines with these anti tilt, Generation II Mag-Pul followers. You can get the same magazine from C-Products. I have since ordered 10 more of these because they feed so well. You can depress the follower anywhere with the erasure end of a pencil and it won't jam up. I can't do that with my mags that have the conventional green followers. Midway sometimes puts these on sale for $9.95 each under the AR-Stoner name. They are the only ones I buy now. They feed like a dream. Bill T.

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by billt

For what it's worth my last 2 Bushmasters I purchased were shipped with 30 round magazines with these anti tilt, Generation II Mag-Pul followers. You can get the same magazine from C-Products. I have since ordered 10 more of these because they feed so well. You can depress the follower anywhere with the erasure end of a pencil and it won't jam up. I can't do that with my mags that have the conventional green followers. Midway sometimes puts these on sale for $9.95 each under the AR-Stoner name. They are the only ones I buy now. They feed like a dream. Bill T.

IF you wish, you can actually find the magazine rebuild kits with new springs and the new generation follower:

TAPCO-World's]TAPCO-World's finest shooting and military gear - finest shooting and military gear

Fulton Armory: AR-15 Parts, Accessories, Tools and Books has magazine rebuild kits with the green follower. Be careful when ordering, some are for 20 round magazines.

I hope this helps.

[Texan]

Email a good friend that is fighting for our freedom over in the big sand box and told the problem I was having. He said I haven't shot enough ammo thru it yet. Told me to pull the bolt and submerge it in a jar of automatic transmission fluid over night. Pull it out, just wipe it off (don't dry it), DO NOT PUT any oil on it, re-assemble the rifle and go shoot.

Did as the Army Strong young man said. Went out this mor'n put 200 round thru it with 6 different steel/poly mags w/black followers...NOT one jam.

He said it's the high detergent factor of the ATF cleans the crap out....and now to keep it well oiled. I knew this to be fact for Harley and automotive engines but...an AR-15. Hey, it worked...!!!!

He's sending me something they use over the in the sand to use on my AR.

o~\o

[LarryO1970]

Good, at least the problem is ratified and you have an operable AR.

[billt]

ATF is one of the best gun lubricants going. Not to mention it only costs around $2.00 a QUART! Bill T.

[Righteous]

I had the same problem with this last bushmaster M4 I bought, did same dam thing, was not in any hurry so sent it back to bushmaster, they relieved the chamber tension and polised the chamber and feed ramp, have not had a single problem since shooting anything and everything thru it, toook about 3 weeks to get it back from them.\

[FragMaster]

Nice Socks. Sorry, had to say it.