What bothers me about modern military rifles.

[SwedeSteve]

It is an option for every soldier. Fill it as you need. I know my weapon of choice would hold a few !!

[YugoM59/66]

just got back from afghanistan. i had an M4 with the rails. on night patrols i would have PVS17C(nightvision scope) or Thermal sights that mounted in front of my ACOG, a surefire flashlight, PEQ15's(laser light with IR capabilities) and a foregrip. i would say my rifle weighed about 13 14 lbs with a loaded magazine. i carried at least 8mag's maybe 10 sometimes and i was always able to react to anything that happened. i would have been lost without my rail system. everything i had that i used to think was pointless and ridiculous, helped me out a lot in combat. i swear by those rail's, i love em. even on long patrols it was never too much too handle. 20 kilometers is still 20 kilometers. your still miserable. your only as fast as your slowest guys, think about the m249 SAW gunners, there carrying twice as much weight

[Pothole]

so i guess it comes down to the old saying "make friends with the guys in the armory" and set up your rifle how you want it

[Big Tool]

It really became too much when I saw this contraption at the gun show that was a scope/flashlight/laser.

It was tshaped with the scope in the middle and the flash/laser on opposite sides of the scope.

The contraption stood about 6 inches above the gun. Major stupid imo.

I do like the concept of having a rail to attach a forward pistol grip to.

After having several ar's i must say I don't even like to have a scope on them much. The added weight of a scope+riser+rings makes my bushmaster awkward feeling.

[YugoM59/66]

i must say the armorer was a close close friend of mine

[jrswanson1]

The combo is nice, you save weight by not having separate mounts for the light and laser, and you don't have to move your hand from the grip to turn any of them on. But, to each their own.

Jim

[Ninja Piper]

My assigned duty weapon is an M-4 and all I have on it is the M-68 optic. I don't believe that adding the PAQ/4, PAQ/2, etc... is worth the weight. I have a PAQ/4 issued to me now, and when we went to qualify we had to put it on for night fire. With the thing mounted on the rifle, I couldn't even see the front sight post! The whole KISS philosophy applies with service rifles. Forward handles are just another thing to get caught on. The mag works just as well as some Gucci-gear handle. Just my opinion...

[Ninja Piper]

As far as flashlights... while they are useful to show you where you are pointed, they give a big bright point for the rest of them to shoot at! Kind of like the idea that tracers work both ways...

[TACAV]

You dont simply use your flashlight as a constant on you use them to in very short momentary half second bursts so
1. if you are doing an area or a building search you can actually see where you are going

2. if you locate a target you can identify it

3. You can again see to engage it.

You arnt just walking around with your light on constant all willy nilly .
If you are moving through such dark circumstances as above looking for targets chances are the bad guy is going to see you first anyways and is already hiding.

This allows you to paint him with an overwhelming tactical level of light which may blind and disorient him assuming you are using a quality weapon light and it allows you to clearly see your target and what is around so you can decide to immediately engage or not too.

Without one you are risk walking, tripping, falling into things, creating more noise yourself or hurting yourself, you cannot clear the areas you are in as you cant see, and should you find someone you wont be able to ID them as a threat or not, or what background you might have. If they are a threat you will be left shooting at shadows or maybe a muzzle flash.

If they have a gun and are hostile they will be shooting at you light or not, so you might as well blind them and return accurate fire at the same time.

[Ninja Piper]

TACAV,

You bring up very good and valid points. Technically I agree with you in the idea of the use of the flashlight, but I have yet to be issued anything that would make it easy to use in that manner. They gave us Pelican lights but no extended switch to make turning it on and off in a quick burst extremely awkward because you had to reach up and hit the butt switch each time. With it attached to the end of the rifle, its just not practical. I've had training with the white light tactics in clearing buildings, etc... and I do see the benefits to it. But as of yet, I have not seen anything to come down the supply line from any of the units I have been assigned to that make it practical.

I do own a Surefire tactical light with an extended switch for my personal M&P .40 for home defense as well.

[TACAV]

Originally Posted by Ninja Piper

TACAV,

You bring up very good and valid points. Technically I agree with you in the idea of the use of the flashlight, but I have yet to be issued anything that would make it easy to use in that manner. They gave us Pelican lights but no extended switch to make turning it on and off in a quick burst extremely awkward because you had to reach up and hit the butt switch each time. With it attached to the end of the rifle, its just not practical. I've had training with the white light tactics in clearing buildings, etc... and I do see the benefits to it. But as of yet, I have not seen anything to come down the supply line from any of the units I have been assigned to that make it practical.

I do own a Surefire tactical light with an extended switch for my personal M&P .40 for home defense as well.

Hmm, How do you have it mounted and how far? Do you have a rail system?

Or I guess I could say how do you hold your rifle? With a standard forearm or with a foregrip?

[Ninja Piper]

The weapon I deployed for OEF was A2/203. The mount we got was supposed to fit somehow between the hand guards towards the front end of it. I never mounted it because like I said, there was no extended switch that could be positioned where it would be easy to reach with a 203. I hold my rifle by the mag well, no foregrip. As a 203 gunner, you don't really have the option. When I went for OIF, I went with an M-4, but no rails.

[Ninja Piper]

Originally Posted by YugoM59/66

i must say the armorer was a close close friend of mine

Me too! I worked in the armory!

[YugoM59/66]

well if u cant see through ur optics why didnt u mount it on the side. u clearly arent a grunt so when did u even use those things in oef or oif. i used everythinge i had on my rifle at some point or another. i think u just need to learn to set ur gear up correctly man cause my stuff was on point. even the guys with 203's used there lights just fine

[basqueechmo]

IMHO, the rails were a great addition to the M4/M-16/etc. You learn very quickly what works when and what doesn't work. My personal preference was my M68 and PAQ4, but the great thing about the rail was I could add a flashlight or vertical grip if needed. If a highly motivated super duper paratrooper wants to do a 20k w/every bell and whistle on his rifle, good for him. If a different high speed individual wants to try and go at it at night without an IR device, I suppose that's his/her perogative (though my SOP was M68 and PAQ4 or PEQ2 were required, everything else was optional, and I loved those IR sights at night). Point is, these accessory rails have allowed a level of customability that hasn't really been seen before. As long as some rear echelon commander doesn't mandate that EVERY bell and whistle needs to be mounted, I think we have a good thing going. The ability to personalize your weapon to the constantly changing battlefield of urban combat with an often invisible enemy is a great achievement. IMHO.

[YugoM59/66]

i completely agree basq

[gbear-48]

Originally Posted by Ninja Piper

The weapon I deployed for OEF was A2/203. The mount we got was supposed to fit somehow between the hand guards towards the front end of it. I never mounted it because like I said, there was no extended switch that could be positioned where it would be easy to reach with a 203. I hold my rifle by the mag well, no foregrip. As a 203 gunner, you don't really have the option. When I went for OIF, I went with an M-4, but no rails.

Pic's?

[Pothole]

i doubt this is right but i thought it was interesting


M203grip - M203 40mm Grenade Launcher Handgrip

[Darkfront]

Originally Posted by Pothole

i doubt this is right but i thought it was interesting


M203grip - M203 40mm Grenade Launcher Handgrip

My AR used to have the DPMS Tuber free float tube that used the M203 handguard around it. I found this thing trying to get a vertical grip, found out it costs over $300!!! It was cheaper to buy and install a new quad rail and buy a standard grip...

[YugoM59/66]

i love when people went out and bought those for deployment for litterally 300 dollars and then they issued them to people when we got there