leaving for Afghan

[captainflip]

Hello everyone. Im Phil and I'm getting ready for my first deployment in Afghanistan. We have all been issued very old M16A2 rifles and have no equipment for them. I am a truck driver and expect to be on the road and probably will have to defend myself and want tro be as prepared as possible. I am looking at buying a personal Aimpoint and havent used one except for that one time in basic two years ago (which just so happens to be the only time my accuracy was semi-decent). Does anyone have advice on what type I should get even from other brands. Are they truly accurate from any rail position? And how do I zero it?

[SightNSqueeze]

I can't comment on the Aimpoint, but M16A2s were issued to the Marines of the logistics group that I was with in Iraq and they were good rifles when kept clean every day. I think the environment will be kinder to your M16A2 in Afghanistan that the environment of Iraq. Be sure to clean your mags and check your rounds from time to time. Good luck down range and may God be with you and the other fine warriors in the GWT.

[captainflip]

After going through so many doublefeeds and other malfunctions I have over the past two years learned to keep them immaculate due to my fear that it would happen during a deployment. But more than my fear of weapon jams is my fear of not hitting anything. I am a horrible shot so I am looking for aome type of modification to assist in aiming. Thankyou for the advice and I'll do my best to pass the luck along.

[TACAV]

I have an Aimpoint Micro T1 I know a lot of people are using the full sized Comp M4 which uses a single AA battery. I haven't used it so I cant speak for it.

But if i can judge Aimpoint by my T-1... I can say that its awesome and a great product.
My Micro T1 with a LaRue mount tall mount for 1/3 co witness is rock solid though. It has nearly unlimited eye relief and a much longer battery life (5 years on setting 8 of 12). It has a good return to zero as well if you have to take it off for some reason and cant rezero right away.

The Comp M4 is like 80,000 hrs on its optimal brightness setting. Although if its really sunny out you may find yourself turning the brightness up. Still both have longer battery life than an Eotech.

Both models are night vision compatible.

Zeroing is just like any other scope. Stick it on, do your zero and adjust windage and elevation accordingly. Once properly zeroed they are parallax free if you can see the red dot your shot will go where the dot is even if you arnt looking perfectly directly through the optic. Both the Comp M4 and the Micro T-1 can be used with magnifiers. Although the dot size on a T-1 is 4MOA and the Comp M4 is 2MOA.

The Comp M4 is the armys new M68 close combat optic. a bit pricey at around $700 plus the mount. If you want to get a cheaper model you could always get a Comp M3 which is an older model and uses those 3 volt batteries.

If you do get one, get a good mount.
On the subject of mounts I see your using A2s with the carry handle? They still make decent red dot mounts for them too. But it would be a lot easier if you had a flat top imo.

What branch of the services are you in?

One of my Marine buddies who did vehicle operations was issued an ACOG for his M16. In fact during his annual qual his entire unit was issued M16s with ACOGs.. guess thats what they are going for these days. It all depends on what your mission is though.

------------ EDIT..

I sent you a PM you might want to check that out.

[captainflip]

Im in the Army in an MI unit. We are some type of new fancy self sustaining brigade so my squad of drivers are the only ones doing actual convoys for the whole brigade. Ive only ever used one type of sight on a rifle and i believe it was the M68. I didnt even zero it. Is it just the same as the iron sights with adjusting vertical and horizontal when im at the range? And sadly my high speed company wont allow me to put a flat top so would it be easier to mount inbetween my sights or actually up on the handle? And what is co witness? With this many questions you can be sure you will soon see me taking your advice from the PM

[Whootsinator]

If you have an A2, how exactly are you planning to go about mounting your chosen sight?

Edit - You posted while I typing my message.

Mounting any type of sight like that is going to be a bit tricky without an A3 flat top. Your only option would appear to be mounting it on top of the rear sight. Or 'carry handle', as you're referring to it.

If you go that route, mounting will be a bit of a pain. You're going to have to bed it with epoxy or fiberglass or SOMETHING.

[blueice]

CaptainFlip, I pray that God keeps you and all the rest of the boys, out of harms way....

[Whootsinator]

If you want to do it right, and considering if you're really going to Afghanistan, YOU WANT TO DO IT RIGHT, I'd go this route.

http://www.armsmounts.com/default.asp?mode=products&sub=mounts&id=[hsh]39

Copy and paste that.

[captainflip]

I thought if I buy a rail system for my rifle It could mount anywhere in the rails like inbetween the iron sights?

[captainflip]

ha you posted as i was typing. thank yuo for that link... very helpful

[TACAV]

Well they do make mounts for A2 carry handles

For example....
A.R.M.S. #16A AIMPOINT M16 A1/A2 CARRY HANDLE MOUNT - all but they arnt optimal in my opinion as now you have cheek weld issues but its better than nothing i suppose.

"Co witness" is the term referring to using your iron sights through your red dot optic.

I know you dont have a flat top upper but if you did u would probably have back up rear flip sights.

You could either leave them folded down out of the way for a less un obstructed view through your red dot or you could leave them up.

Co witness is the ability to look through your iron sights through the optics field of view.

If your red dot broke or battery died you still have your iron sights.

The two most common co witness levels are "absolute" and "lower 1/3".
Absolute means that if you were looking through your rear and front iron sights like normal your optics target dot would be right dead center lined up with your sight picture.
This requires a lower mount. You would see the dot sitting just above or on your front sight post.

1/3 means that the optic sits in a slightly higher mount so that you can still use your iron sights if need be but the iron sight picture is in the lower third of your optics field of view. So when you arnt lining up the rear and front iron sights the dot appears to be a little higher than your front sight post.

This allows for a less "cluttered" field of view when looking through your optic assuming you are using a rifle with a fixed A2 style front sight tower.

-------------------- If your a driver tasked for vehicle operations and not like a turret gunner in a HMMWV im kinda surprised they are giving you a full sized rifle and not a shorter M4.

[captainflip]

I know this isnt the same rifle ill have but couldnt i set it up kind of like this but with 1/3, be inbetween my ironsights and still be able to use both?

[TACAV]

Originally Posted by captainflip

I know this isnt the same rifle ill have but couldnt i set it up kind of like this but with 1/3, be inbetween my ironsights and still be able to use both?

1/3 lets you use both iron sights and the red dot.
Here is a picture to let you see what I mean.


This is you looking through your red dot using your iron sights. The left is an absolute co witness and the right is a lower one third. If you had a flat top upper with a folding rear sight you could always fold the rear sight down for that less obstructed view i spoke of earlier.

Since you dont have a flat top you arnt going to have any cowitness whatso ever as whatever mount you stick on top of the carry handle is going to put the optic on a higher plane than your iron sights. The mount I posted in the link earlier actually has a notch cut below the mount so that you could either look down your normal iron sight plain OR get a higher cheek weld and look through the optic so you have to do one or the other.

The only other thing you might be able to do is get a picatinny rail system. Either a quad rail replacement for your hand guard and mount the red dot in a forward "scout" set up position or get an A2 adapter like this

AR15 / M16 Weapons Carbines and Accessories, military tactical gear, Optics, see second picture down.

I have no personal expirience with this type of set up though.

[captainflip]

The actual sett up I originally was thinking of was with picatinny rails. one on the top handguard for my sight and on the bottom for a vertical handguard as i naturally hold the magazine well for all my shooting. As long as it is a comfortable sight position for me it will be just as fast and functional as with a flat top?

[Darkfront]

Originally Posted by captainflip

The actual sett up I originally was thinking of was with picatinny rails. one on the top handguard for my sight and on the bottom for a vertical handguard as i naturally hold the magazine well for all my shooting. As long as it is a comfortable sight position for me it will be just as fast and functional as with a flat top?

I don't think that mounting on a top rail on the standard handguard will give you the proper sight picture. Best to look for a Z-mount that will allow you to co witness with your red dot between front and rear sight.

An example of one can be found here.
GMG AR-15 Z-Mount Handle type mount

Just don't get this particular one. I wouldn't trust a 24 dollar mount with my life.

[captainflip]

http://www.commandarms.com/product.asp?pID=11&cID=8

[TACAV]

Try one of these. Well first find out if your unit will let you add this part to your gun, some units are more up tight about it than others when it comes to aftermarket parts.

The following are made by Ultimak, they are a pretty good company and make some good stuff.

Both these mounts are constructed with a built in channel so that you can still use your primary iron sights if your optic goes down.

Aimpoint 10174 M-16, AR-15, AR-10, Forward Carry Handle Mount
Mounts optic just forward of carry handle

AR-15/AR-10/M-16 Carry Handle Mount for Aimpoint Comp / M68
Elevated top of carry handle mount

[nathangdad]

I will pray for your safety in a country which we have invaded with no
thought going in, no definition of success now that we are in, no real public support for the effort, and no way out with our current level of political leadership in America.

I have no idea what you could do to defend yourself in a truck the U.S. government will not protect with armor plate and bullet proof glass.
You should have a protected (at least to some degree) driver enclosure.

[captainflip]

Our plt sgt has told us we can make mods as long as he approves them so I will bring my ideas to him. I don't understand why they are not giving us carbines when we are going to be inside trucks where a longer rifle is more difficult but I wouldn't expect much more from the unit I am in. I am simply trying to compensate for the set back in the weapon I've been given and, I know from the training we've done that my leaders are likely to get someone killed through horrible decisions and terrible planning. Ive decidied that I will do everything I can to make sure that it is not me. Thank you all for your advice, I think I have learned enough from everyone to make an informed decision on which setup will be most benificial and comfortable for me.

[SightNSqueeze]

captainflip, don't sell the M16A2 short on capabilities. Just a couple of miles from where I'm sitting, Marine recruits are qualifying at 500 yard ranges with some of the oldest M16A2s in the inventory, and with standard iron sights. I know some people have problems with the iron sights, but the problem is not as much with the shooter or the weapon as it is with inadequate time and resources to practice. Even after you get downrange, you and your troopers need to practice at every opportunity in bright day and low light conditions. Finally, it may be a blessing that you are not saddled with M4s. I’ve never been to Afghanistan, but I have to assume that there will be more open country engagements there than in downtown Ramadi or Fallujah where CQB engagements were usually in stairwells, foyers and patios.