I hadn't really been into black guns until I inherited an AR10 and AR15 from my brother several years ago. I've taken them to the range and really, really, really enjoy shooting them. I had posted a question here a few months ago about caliber options for uppers. But, I am really curious about what the differences are between the brands. Mine are Bushmaster.
I've been reading a lot about black rifles as a whole in AR type magazines but they seem to generalize the AR in the articles or discuss upgrades for a particular brand or..."this brand uses this upgrade"...More in-depth information seems to be relatively easy to find for bolt action rifles, etc...Winchester M70 is a Mauser type action, it does X, Remington Model 700 is this type of action and it does Y. The stocks are different because of Z. This is an advantage because...etc., etc.
What are the strengths and weaknesses of the AR brands? Where does Bushmaster fall?
Thank you!!
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First, they aren't "black rifles". Any rifle can be made black, and any AR-15 or AR-10 can be made into any color on earth. That term comes directly from idiot reporters trying to make the rifles sound more sinister.
That being said, no one brand is inherently better than another. I have a Bushmaster and I can't see where it's any better than my friend's Double Star. Double Star is a relatively cheap AR-15, but I don't see a difference. My brother has a DPMS parts kit rifle and again, I see no difference. They all shoot when the trigger is pulled, are accurate, and fit and finish is good on them all. They're completely interchangeable with each other as well. Basically, what you end up doing is paying for the name when you buy a "better" brand. Bushmaster, Stag, Colt, FN, and some others I can't think of right now all command a higher price because popular opinion is that they're better. Reality, you're paying for a stamp on the side of the receiver.
Look around and find the configuration you want. Type in the name of the maker in a search engine and look for problems. If you don't immediately see a bunch of links to places where people have had problems with them, then it should be just fine.
what jmp said is mostly true, if they make there guns to Mill Spec then they are all the same, the only reason to pay more for one brand over another if the level of quality control. Some companies are notorious for letting bad guns out of the factory (Olympic Arms) others like Noveske are very good about the testing and inspections that the rifle has to go through to make it to sale.
Bushmaster is a great brand, and I own one, but I have also heard a lot of good things about doublestar, and their usually cheaper than the bushys, it might just be down to the fact that bushmaster has a more proven name
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^^That's pretty much it. Some names have been around longer. That does not mean they're better though. Just means they've been around longer. Like I said, I have a Bushmaster, and I love that rifle to death! But at the same time, I'm not going to tell you to buy one, because if I knew then what I know now, I would have saved money and just bought something else. I'm not saying the higher priced brands aren't good. They are good and they have a name for a reason. BUT other makes will be just as good. It's like the difference between a Ford Ranger and a Mazda B-series truck. They're the same deal, just with a different name on it.
I own 3 AR's. Two Bushmasters and one Colt. I love my Bushmasters. They seem to put a little more quaility in them then some other manufacturers. One very nice thing about Bushmaster is that they use standard equipment. The Colt has larger holes at the trigger and when the upper and lower receiver meet. Not a big problem but it limits what you can do.
My first Bushy has been modified to the point where the trigger is a Chip McCormick, barrel is Rock River, the bolt carrier and bolt are Lewis Machine Tool. It has several other little tweeks all thanks to standard or millspec sizing.
You pay for what you get. Mine goes bang avery time and chambers the next round. Never a problem.
One thing to make sure about is a crome lined barrel.
I also go with the standard gas impengment system and I'm not a piston fan.
Thanks for the replies! That clarifies a lot. I figured that if they were as interchangeable as they are they all should be close to the same. But, I wasn't sure if I was missing something.
Yeah, I only recently have been hearing them called "Black Rifles". But, not from the media, actually from the AR magazines. That term is all over the place in there. If I had know the media calls them that, I wouldn't have even considered writing it. LOL
Thanks again for the input!
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There are subtle differences in AR brands that are not readily visible to the untrained.
For example: staking of the gas key bolts, staking of the castle nut, phosphate finishing the barrel BEFORE putting the front sight/gas block on, better quality springs, trigger groups, etc.
Do not kid yourself into thinking that the purchase of a $700 AR 15 is going to give you Mil.Spec. quality of production that will stand up in battle field conditions.
If you want a tough battle gun that will last in the field, you will have to pay for it. If you just want a "look cool at the range" gun, there are plenty of those on the market that cost significantly less.
Sure there is a degree of "name factor" in the price, but the name brand would not be able to sustain that price if it was not able to live up to expectations.
As for Bushmaster, specifically, I think it is one of the better brands of AR 15s on the market. I have two of them. My Colt is the only brand I like better. The other brands I own (DPMS, CMMG, S&W, E.A.) are pretty much in a lesser category. I do not own an Armalite AR 15, but if their quality is the same as the AR 10, it should be excellent as well.
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First, they aren't "black rifles". Any rifle can be made black, and any AR-15 or AR-10 can be made into any color on earth. That term comes directly from idiot reporters trying to make the rifles sound more sinister.
That being said, no one brand is inherently better than another. I have a Bushmaster and I can't see where it's any better than my friend's Double Star. Double Star is a relatively cheap AR-15, but I don't see a difference. My brother has a DPMS parts kit rifle and again, I see no difference. They all shoot when the trigger is pulled, are accurate, and fit and finish is good on them all. They're completely interchangeable with each other as well. Basically, what you end up doing is paying for the name when you buy a "better" brand. Bushmaster, Stag, Colt, FN, and some others I can't think of right now all command a higher price because popular opinion is that they're better. Reality, you're paying for a stamp on the side of the receiver.
Look around and find the configuration you want. Type in the name of the maker in a search engine and look for problems. If you don't immediately see a bunch of links to places where people have had problems with them, then it should be just fine.
WRONG. You are Not just "paying for a stamp on the side of the receiver". There are great quality differences among brands, especially since every schmuck and his sister is making AR's now. Does every AR have a double chrome lined barrel?? Forged receivers?? MP tested bolt and properly staked carrier key?? Free floated hand guard? M4 feed ramps?? The answer is NO. Those are high quality features that you only find on your better ARs. The average AR won't last as long, be as accurate, and will be more prone to misfiring and wearing out far sooner. Buy as good as you can get. Bushmaster is a good quaity AR. Not as good as larue or Noveske, but far better than crap like Del Ton or Olympic.
I like my Bushy carbine. B/M is made of hard steel, I haven't noticed much wear anywhere.
Mine is accurate, and has not failed. It's been shooting hand loads good at 100 & 200 yds.
So I put a Mako Quad rail and a light on it. They are in the Top three, mid priced, like DPMS and
Colt.
There are AR-15's that are built to Mil-Spec - which the term is often misleading but essentially it means materials, finishing, and testing standards. Things like MP/HP tested barrels, F height front sights with flat tops, finishing under the front sight, barrel materials, feed ramps, staked bolt carriers, twist rate, etc. Select-fire may be one aspect of what separates a military M4/M16 from an AR15 but it isn't the make-all break-all of what makes mil-spec mil-spec.
__________________ When I can't think of anything original to post I think to myself, 'what would Sprout say?' -PSLMAN
There are subtle differences in AR brands that are not readily visible to the untrained.
For example: staking of the gas key bolts, staking of the castle nut, phosphate finishing the barrel BEFORE putting the front sight/gas block on, better quality springs, trigger groups, etc.
Do not kid yourself into thinking that the purchase of a $700 AR 15 is going to give you Mil.Spec. quality of production that will stand up in battle field conditions.
If you want a tough battle gun that will last in the field, you will have to pay for it. If you just want a "look cool at the range" gun, there are plenty of those on the market that cost significantly less.
Sure there is a degree of "name factor" in the price, but the name brand would not be able to sustain that price if it was not able to live up to expectations.
As for Bushmaster, specifically, I think it is one of the better brands of AR 15s on the market. I have two of them. My Colt is the only brand I like better. The other brands I own (DPMS, CMMG, S&W, E.A.) are pretty much in a lesser category. I do not own an Armalite AR 15, but if their quality is the same as the AR 10, it should be excellent as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprout47
There are AR-15's that are built to Mil-Spec - which the term is often misleading but essentially it means materials, finishing, and testing standards. Things like MP/HP tested barrels, F height front sights with flat tops, finishing under the front sight, barrel materials, feed ramps, staked bolt carriers, twist rate, etc. Select-fire may be one aspect of what separates a military M4/M16 from an AR15 but it isn't the make-all break-all of what makes mil-spec mil-spec.
+1
pay attention to these two posts especially.
There really is a big difference in overall performance/fit/reliability, in ARs made to true mil specs by Colt or BCM for example or even really high end ones like Noveske or Knights Armament.
vs something say made by DPMS, Stag, or Double Star which are more "commercial grade" AR15s. They may still be "mil-spec" but mil spec is just a standard that has to be met. And while the US military may not mass field total crap but something pretty dang good there is always something better on the high end market.
For many here that own rifles made by double star, Olympic, DPMS etc. and the rifle works well for them you always have to ask two important questions.
-What are they using their rifle for?
-What do you plan on using the rifle for?
There is a big difference between taking one out to the range, and casually slow firing a couple mags worth target shooting, using one for light precision work for target shooting or hunting or even doing a couple mag dumps out at the range for general entertainment.
Vs. actually fielding one as a fighting rifle where you will run that gun very hot and dirty in training (shooting literally thousands plus rounds through it in a very short time like a couple days), banging it around etc, and in crappy conditions or doing things like SBRing a direct impingement gas system and keeping a reliable shooter with a 11.3" -10.5" barrel.
Use like this is where you will see the lesser made rifles start to crap out vs the higher grade ones keep on blasting away. This is where those nitty gritty details like true proper heat treated barrels, and internals will make or break the gun.
Now, most people do not run their guns that hard. A lot of people may not put 1,000 rounds through their rifle in a whole year, some might put three and a half times that amount through their rifle in a single week for a class or something.
You see where Im going?
I guess all Im trying to say is evaluate what you want this rifle for. If your just a casual shooter who wants an AR15 for some fun shooting or defense around the farm or house, or something than there is absolutely nothing wrong with a DPMS, Olympic, Stag, whatever. That gun will still probably both out shoot and out last you.
It will probably also take a lot more mistreatment than you think it can.
(On a side note BCM makes a great "fighting rifle" and it is very reasonably affordable)
If you plan on making this into some sort of gun for work or if your just a training junkie or competition shooter who will probably be shooting a few thousand rounds a year through it then you may want to consider something higher end. If you can afford to shoot it that much with the price of ammo these days, you can probably afford the higher gun too which will be a good investment.
This isn't trying to be some sort of elitist comment either. I do shoot a lot of rounds every year but I cant afford a Noveske as much as I'd love one. Spending $1,200 on the upper reciever alone puts it out of my budget range.
I got a very well built RRA set up that works well and is proven, and I invest the rest into ammo and training.
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I agree whole heartedly about BCM. For a little over $400 I was able to put a M4 SOCOM 14.5" upper on a Colt Match HBAR lower that I had and have a very solid well-built rifle that will stand up to the punishment I expect from a fighting rifle.
I typically shoot between 200-600 rds when making a trip to the range and will have the barrel quite hot by the end of a run; the cost and reputation of BCM products left me sure that they were the right company for the job. So far I haven't had a single malfunction - despite being run hot and dirty.
__________________ When I can't think of anything original to post I think to myself, 'what would Sprout say?' -PSLMAN
Thank you for the replies. There's a lot of good info here! Just what I was looking for.
I already own the Bushmasters but just wanted to see how they stand up to other brands and what makes them different. Great replies to that question.
I probably will not buy another AR type rifle (...probably being the key word. We'll see after I keep using them). I received mine from my brother when he passed away several years ago. As mentioned one is an AR10 in .308 and the other an AR15. Actually, he gave me an AR15 pistol in .223 as well...not sure what I'm going to do with that yet.
My main hobby that I do with firearms is some range shooting, hunting and CCW. So, my brother's guns were completely different from mine. He bought guns for the wow/fun factor. I buy guns for a specific purpose. I probably average 6 trips to the range annually and probably shoot 100 rounds of handgun and 20 - 40 rounds of hunting rifle each trip. So, I don't think I'll be too hard on these guns. Although, back in October, I took a 3 day Practical Rifle class (entire class was with a bolt action) that I really enjoyed. It was my first real training in the 23 years I've been shooting. I never really knew anyone in the shooting/hunting sports and really just taught myself. I knew that I probably had acquired some poor habits over the years and decide that I really wanted to learn proper shooting fundamentals...and just have fun. I also was shooting LH up til the class and was right eye dominant. So, I used the class to train shooting RH and made the switch.
I really enjoyed this course and am very interested in taking a Carbine course with my AR15. Of course, this might change my whole way of thinking about shooting in the future.
Thanks again for everyone taking the time to give me some feedback.
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