I recently sold a Colt HBAR II Target Match Competition while keeping my DPMS and Del-Ton AR's.
The Colt didn't impress me much, and the trigger was noticeably less crisp than the other two.
I attribute a lot of the cost of Colt to the same UAW strangle hold that drove Detroit into the ground. Colt hasn't been an innovator in the firearms industry in decades. Instead they sat on their laurels and relied on their military contracts, which they have since lost.
The strike of the late 80's put them way behind the curve in innovation, and their attempts to catch up resulted in flops like the Double Eagle and All American 2000. The end result of that was they lost out big in the Law Enforcement contracts as they didn't have anything to compete with Glock, Sig, or Beretta. They still don't to this day.
Another reason that might explain the extra cost of the Colt is where there home is 20 miles North of me here in New Haven Conn. where they have been since opening their doors in the 1800's. Fairfield county is one of the most expensive counties to live in anywhere in the US. Cost of business real estate, state taxes labor cost all all very high here in Conn which is why we are so low on the list of job creation in this state. I have no doubt a lot of these cost get passed on to the customer.
Something a lot of people do not know is many of the variety of receivers that are available are also made right here in Conn not just Colt. Stag Arms. home is right nere in New Britain Conn. as well as several others. Sam Colt was the man that gave use the six shooters of the later half of the 19th century that made all men equal and set the standard. They have always been and still are located in New Haven Conn. One of the few business icons left around here. Them and the Sikorsky helicopter plant are about all that is left in a state that use to be huge on manufacturing.
I like my Rock River AR's just fine. That being said, I could easily be persuaded to own whatever a dissenter wants to buy for me.
As I've said many times in response to all of the "what should I buy" questions, It doesn't matter what anyone else has. If you buy a specific brand just because someone else has one, you'll very likely make a foolish purchase. If there was only one "best" AR out there, we would all have one, and we wouldn't have the choices we currently have.
I have a couple of rimfire rifles that will shoot houseflies all day long at 50 yards. If I post the make and model of the rifle, how many will rush right out and buy one? I'm sorry, I didn't see any hands... try again ?
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As a follow up to my own post back on page one, I forgot to mention that one huge factor in the price difference with some of the "higher end" brands is that they are continuously developing and implementing in their models various technology improvements and design enhancements to further modernize the AR15 platform.
These companies offer and include parts and features that the more commercial level brands do not.
These are things like the Noveske Switchblock which is an adjustable gasblock that you can manually change without tools on the fly to adjust the gas flow for high volume suppressed and unsuppressed shooting.
Or the Knights Armament fully ambidextrous lower receivers that feature built in ambidexterous magazine and bolt catches already integrated into the lower. As opposed to taking a standard lower receiver and having to bolt on aftermarket mods to a standard lower receiver like the Magpul BAD Lever or Troy Industries ambi mag release etc.
As I stated earlier, the vast majority of AR15 owners do not shoot primarily suppressed, let alone own a suppressor so more expensive options like the Noveske Switchblock (which works wonderfully I might add and totally gets rid of that nasty blowblack) would serve no useful purpose other than to cost them more money for a part/option they have no use for.
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i love to be able to say things like
i own the finest -fill in the blank- money can buy.
but i simply cannot afford to buy any colts of any kind.
that lil pony triples or quadruples the price
The difference is negligible and not worth the extra cost imo. I have a bushmaster and a PSA. My room mate has a doublestar. My brother has a DPMS. My bushmaster seems a tad bit better in fit and finish than the doublestar and DPMS. It also has had absolutely no problems ever, compared to the exactly one each the other two have had. My PSA likewise hasn't had issues, but I haven't shot it that much either. None of them seemed the quality of my issued FN Herstal M16A4 I had in MCT.
Everything is different in some small way. All you can do is look around and make a decision based on the data you have available. It's difficult to go wrong with AR-15s.
Just an observation, but aside from the SAA Colt hasn't manufactured anything of their own in decades. In fact the solid top strap of the SAA was a design that was adopted several years after Sam Colts death. There is nothing illegal about what they do, but it sure looks like they need somebody actually 'driving the Colt bus'.....
Just an observation, but aside from the SAA Colt hasn't manufactured anything of their own in decades. In fact the solid top strap of the SAA was a design that was adopted several years after Sam Colts death. There is nothing illegal about what they do, but it sure looks like they need somebody actually 'driving the Colt bus'.....
Colt is much like HK in that their primary focus has always been the govt./ military sector of business over the commercials side.
Their commercial sides was more of a "might as well get a piece of that market too while we're at it" sort of afterthought.
They have been coming out with a bunch of other innovations over the past years but most people have not heard of them.
They have submitted some of the designs to the US military in the recent carbine trials but for political reasons and the US govt. refusing to change anything the trials have been largely stagnant of late.
They have an M4 "Enhanced" model with certain major upgraded parts,a gas piston gun, and the new Colt CM901 which is a single modular multi-caliber fully ambidextrous lower receiver that can accept both 5.56, 6.8, and 7.62x51 upper receivers.
They should be releasing their commercial model that comes with a default 7.62x51 carbine upper sometime this year hopefully.
Also one of the primary reasons Colt doesn't do a large portion of their manufacturing is because of their military contracts with the US and allied governments. That is why their TDP was given to FNH to co-produce so that they could keep the supply up with the huge demand.
That is nothing new. Just look back at WW2 when you had about 2 dozen different manufacturers all pumping out the same spec M1 rifles and carbines.
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It's not always the size of the dog in the fight. Often it's the size of the fight in the dog.
I shot Colt gov models in the M-16 way back when and now that I'm a civvy, I shoot a keyhole marked upper (no name to be found anywhere) on a Spike's lower. Match Stage 2 trigger with 20" Match HBAR Free floating. Would I put my rig up against a so called highfalutin Colt Rig? Anytime, any place, at $10 a shot if they'll take my wager.
Brand names have not ever made or broken the rifle for me. It's how it works for me that makes the rifle. I've hammered the absolute dogsh*t out of my rifle with little errors to report. My paint is a wreck and I've got nicks and dings on my rails, but that happens if you don't have a safe queen. But, when I pull her out to go to work, she's already open for business waiting on me with coffee ready. If that makes any sense... I'm talking about my rifle of course.
I've shot bushmasters, DPMS , rocks and Colts and a few others and seem to find most if not all can outshoot most if not all of us, get the best you can afford and learn to shoot it like you know the curves of you loved one (that'd be the boss, the queen of your dreams) take good care of them both and you'll never go wrong with eith......... the rifle.
OK now here is dumbest AR fact that you will ever here. As everyone knows Colt has been in buisness a long time and all of that time right here in Conn. a short drive from where I live. If you live in Conn. you can not own an AR-15 rifle with a Colt manufactured receiver!!! They are on a short list of banned weapons that are listed by manufactures name. The Conn. law says you can not own a Colt AR-15 but it is legal to go buy a Stag Arms reciever which is also made right here and mount all of the Colt parts to it! You almost have to laugh it is so stupid.
I bought a Colt when I didn't know anything about the different brands on a recommendation of the salesman that showed it to me. Don't have any regrets after thousands of rounds. Everything still works just fine. I looked up the M-4 comparison chart online and it showed that Colt was the only brand that met all mil-spec standards for all of the parts required. There probably some other brands today that do meet all mil-spec for a higher price but to me the price I paid for my Colt was worth it. My great grandsons will be shooting it with no problems in years to come. I haven't had any experience with any other brands but I'm sure they all go bang when they are clean and well taken care of. Happy shooting!
I have two Bushmasters I'm trying to out shoot.
Common parts, accurate. 1450.00 in both rifles.
No they aren't an Armalite or Colt but what's in a name?
For 95-98% of the AR15 owners out there, they will never shoot or use their carbine/rifle hard enough to notice the difference between an $800 Bushmaster or a $2,200 Knights Armament.
The super vast majority of AR15 owners out there will probably never shoot their gun enough to wear out the barrel or have to worry about replacing worn parts and springs and after even a few years may only have maybe 5,000 rounds or so through their gun.
For that other 5-2% who do (usually action sports/3 gun competition or the tactical training community) who might shoot that many rounds in a 4 day carbine class (multiplied by a couple or more of those in a year in addition to all of the misc. range trips they do) they will and do notice the difference.
I know several friends and co workers who own 1 or more personal AR15s.
Probably at least 5 of them put less than 500 rounds through them a year. I know two of them have yet to put ANY rounds through them and they have owned them for almost 6 months now. One is a Rock River Arms LAR15, and one has a Colt LE6920. I know one other guy who is currently building his second AR and has probably waaaay less than 1,000 rounds through his first one. Both builds are Spikes Tactical.
Who cares. It's a hobby.
Contrasting to that I have one friend who is going to a 4 day Haley Strategic carbine/pistol class in two weeks in Colorado with his suppressed 300 Blackout Noveske/AAC SBR.
I know that the ammo requirements for that class are 1,000 rifle and 1,000 pistol rounds. Not counting several range trips this is his 3rd training class this year or so. He shoots... a lot.
The same could be said for the 1911 community.
You probably won't see a lot of high end competitive 1911 shooters rocking out with an $650 Rock Island Armory pistol.
I know several of the guys on our departments competitive pistol team have several Les Baers, Wilson Combats, and Springfield Armory custom jobs that are in the $2,500 to $3,000 plus range.
That is not to say that that $650 RIA pistol is crap, and it probably gets the job done for a lot of satisfied owners but at a certain usage level you get to that point of diminishing returns or maxing out its capabilities and you need something else.
Again, You get what you pay for but for the vast majority of people they will never be using their gun in a role where they will notice the difference so for most people the huge difference in price is probably pretty inconsequential as well.
When people come to me and ask me for advice on an AR15 I have gotten to the point where the first question I ask them is "What do you want to do with it."
Most of the time, it's "Ooh I don't know. I just want one to have. Nothing serious, just something to plink with etc."
Personally I will refer them to BCM simply because I know they make a good solid product and they are well within the same price range of DPMS or Rock River Arms for example.
But either way they don't need to drop mega dollars on a LaRue, Noveske, Knights Armament, etc. for what they want to do with it.
Even more personally. My first AR15 was a Rock River Arms carbine. I still have it. I have modded the crap out of it and replaced most of the parts and it is still going strong.
I have personally owned AR15s and parts made by Stag, Armalite, CMT, Rock River Arms, BCM, Daniel Defense, and Noveske. Yes I can notice the difference. I know for example that every part on my Noveske from the barrel to the parts fitting was triple checked for quality control and proper specs by a real person by hand during assembly.
Where as maybe a handful out of a large batch were checked for quality control purposes on some of my other companies builds. *shrugs
Every part on my Noveske is tight, in spec, and rock solid and it runs and runs, and runs even when hot and dirty.
As much as I would like too I can't honestly say the same thing for some of my other builds from other manufacturers when put through the same conditions. Or even just looking at it from the factory without even getting to the shooting part.
If it comes to needing more accuracy than a Colt or any other reliable AR provides, I'll be using a scoped throw bolt anyway. I'm sure you would too feller.
If it comes to needing more accuracy than a Colt or any other reliable AR provides, I'll be using a scoped throw bolt anyway. I'm sure you would too feller.
I have a scoped Bushmaster Varmiter SS that I will shoot against just about any throw bolt gun on the market, confidently! You best have something that will shot 1/4" groups at 100 yards. I dont know any factory bolt gun capable of that. A Hill Country Custom rifle has a 1/2" gaurantee at 100 yards but it is also $1800+. Ill take a Bushmaster, and I have have owned a Colt H-Bar Match, it wont hold a candle to this Bushmaster. When Colt Decided to NOT to sell to Civilians, I went to Bushmaster, and found they have a better gun for the money. As far as I am concerned. When Colt pulled that crap, only selling to military and law enforcement, I decided I would NEVER own ANYTHING made by Colt.
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There ain't no fix for stupid! 
