Beretta's lawsuit

12-07-2003, 03:16 PM

Legal fight targets gun design in fatality
Resurrected civil lawsuit against Beretta

By Glenn Chapman, STAFF WRITER

OAKLAND -- Lawyers Monday will resume battling about whether the Beretta company is responsible for a Berkeley teenager's shooting death because the design of its semi-automatic pistol didn't make it obvious there was a bullet in the chamber.

A resurrected civil lawsuit against Beretta U.S.A. charges a gun design flaw resulted in the accidental killing of Griffin "Kenzo" Dix in May 1994.

Beretta's defense team has countered that fault lies with the family of Michael Soe, who was 14 years old when he aimed his father's Beretta 92 Compact L handgun at Dix and pulled the trigger without making certain the chamber was empty. Dix was shot in the heart.

"If a cheap disposable camera can tell you when it's loaded, surely a handgun should indicate when there is a bullet in the chamber," Dix's father, Griffin Dix, wrote in a local newspaper editorial published after legislation was passed requiring clear chamber-loaded indicators and mechanisms that make guns inoperable if bullet

clips are removed. "Effective designs for loaded-chamber indicators and magazine disconnect safety devices have been available for many decades."

The 9-mm Beretta pistol that killed Dix was defective because the chamber-loaded indicator was tiny and difficult to see, the suit against the gun maker charges. The indicator on the pistol was a small red dot that rose a millimeter when a round was in the chamber.

Soe got the gun from a camera bag next to his father's bed and popped out the magazine, thinking he had unloaded the weapon before pointing it at his friend, according to Griffin Dix.

Soe's dad, Clarence, reportedly bought the gun the previous year.

Griffin Dix maintains Soe would not have squeezed the trigger if the Beretta had been designed to make it easy to see a bullet was in the chamber. Griffin and Lynn Dix, a Berkeley couple, filed a wrongful death suit in Alameda County Superior Court in 1995. The suit demanded $7.5 million in damages. A civil trial ended with jurors exonerating Beretta.

The way was cleared for a retrial after an appellate court ruled a panelist came to the jury box convinced it was Clarence Soe's responsibility, not the gun maker's, to ensure the pistol was properly stored and his son was taught firearm safety.

"I believe in parental responsibility," the juror was quoted as saying in court documents. "There is too much laxness in society today."

The juror was "belligerent and domineering," disrupted deliberations, denigrated dissenting members of the panel and browbeat peers to his position, appellate court documents indicate.

Alameda County Superior Court Judge Gordon Baranco is presiding over the new jury trial. Michael Soe was among those called to testify since opposing lawyers made opening statements to jurors Dec. 2. Presentation of evidence is to continue in Baranco's courtroom in the County Administration Building at 1221 Oak St.
:target:

Sniper[MI] · 12-07-2003, 03:23 PM

The a hole that aimed the gun is responsible for the others death, period!!! Any jackhole that would aim a gun at another without the intent of shooting the other is just asking for trouble. The man is dead cause the other man is a stupid Jack Arse! Thats it, Beretta has nothing to do with it!

BattleRifleG3 · 12-07-2003, 03:49 PM

Since when was it a crime not to have invented something? Loaded chamber indicators are a new thing. There was a time when they didn't exist. Are we going to sue the medical community for not finding a cure for cancer yet?

For crying out loud, this is hurlworthy...

12-07-2003, 04:01 PM

loaded chamber indicators have been around since 1929 when the first Walther PPK showed up

BattleRifleG3 · 12-07-2003, 07:40 PM

Thanks for the Walther info, I just keep seeing more modern guns include a loaded chamber indicator that it seems like more of a new thing. I still think the arguement stands, though, that one should never be prosecuted for not building something.

12-07-2003, 10:05 PM

I wish loaded chamber indicators were more popular with manufacturers..but I don't want it to be legally mandatory..

BattleRifleG3 · 12-08-2003, 01:30 AM

They're getting there... Steyrs, Springfield XDs, the latest Glocks, I'm not sure about the new Smith/Walthers. I like it on my Steyr (in case anyone hasn't noticed, I like my Steyr).

01-01-2004, 04:57 PM

http://www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1...850336,00.html

Gun case declared a mistrial due to hung jury
Jurors split on Beretta's culpability

By Glenn Chapman, STAFF WRITER

OAKLAND -- A mistrial was declared Tuesday after jurors deadlocked over whether the design of a Beretta pistol caused the accidental shooting death of a Berkeley teenager in 1994.

It was the second time Alameda County jurors pondered the circumstances that ended with Kenzo Dix shot dead by a 14-year-old friend showing off a gun he thought was unloaded.

The first civil trial ended with jurors exonerating the Beretta gun company. Their verdict was overturned by an appellate court that ruled a juror convinced parents are responsible for weapons in their homes had bullied other jurors and affected the outcome.

Alameda County Superior Court Judge Gordon Baranco presided over the second civil trial, which ended Tuesday in a mistrial after it became apparent the jury was irrevocably divided about whether the gun maker was culpable.

"They failed to convince two separate Alameda County juries that it was the pistol design that was at fault," said attorney Craig Livingston, who defended Beretta at trial. "It is my hope that the family will find a more productive way to deal with the tragic loss of their son. It is time to have closure to it."

Dix's parents and their attorney stepped from Baranco's courtroom Tuesday vowing to take their case to trial for a third time. Mistrials come with the option of renewing proceedings. The option of a third trial is to be discussed at a Jan. 2 hearing.

"We got a lot further up the hill this time," said Dix's mother, Lynn. "I think the gun companies are on notice that they have to make guns a lot safer."

Lynn and Griffin Dix, who are divorced, condemned proposed legislation that would insulate gun makers from wrongful death suits.

"These lawsuits are not frivolous," the mother said, referring to firearms companies as callous. "It is our only recourse."

Attorneys said after the mistrial was declared, the jurors reportedly agreed the Beretta semi-automatic pistol at issue in the case was well-made and that gun owners should make certain weapons are safely handled.

Livingston said the Dix family was capably represented by the Keker & Van Nest law firm in San Francisco, and was able to incorporate a decade's worth of firearm design evolution into their case.

Dix lawyer Elliot Peters argued at trial the chamber-loaded indicator on the Beretta 92 Compact L wielded by Michael Soe that fateful day was ineffective, and that inexpensive design changes would have prevented the fatal accident.

"They are still selling these guns," Griffin Dix said Tuesday. "They are, essentially, ignoring deaths that could be prevented."

Livingston argued at trial it would be ridiculous to find Beretta at fault for marketing a high-quality Italian pistol built with safety features that performed as intended. The blame for the tragedy rests with Michael Soe and his father, Clarence, Livingston argued.

The day Michael Soe got the gun from his father's bedroom he was so intent on impressing his friend and going undetected by elders in the house that he didn't bother to check whether there was a bullet in the chamber, Livingston said at trial.

Griffin Dix praised state legislation requiring handguns sold in California as of 2007 to feature clear chamber-loaded indicators and locking mechanisms activated when ammunition clips are removed.

Rave · 01-01-2004, 08:12 PM

I think a loaded chamber like that on the PPK is an excellent feature,but it doesn't replace unsafe gun handling,period!:nod:

pmg47 · 01-15-2004, 10:13 PM

I was looking at a Beretta 9000s today and noticed they will not fire if clip is out. Something new or has it been that way on other newer models?

MAX7.62 · 01-15-2004, 11:16 PM

Kimber uses a small slot in the top of the chamber that allows you to see the rear of the cartridge if there's one in the pipe. Also their "tactical" external extractor on the newer models serves as a chamber indicator.

Person picks up pistol, drops magazine, aims at friend, kills friend - "I thought it was unloaded, I took out the clip" = bad firearms training. Father bought the Beretta a year earlier, probably went to the range once, maybe, never had any formal training - probably, etc. Why not let the lawyers kick the dad's butt for neglegence for not teaching his kid gun smarts?

Shaun · 01-16-2004, 02:19 AM

I think these lawsuits need to be made unlawful - the next step is to eliminate the trial laywers who try these types of lawsuits purely for the money

01-16-2004, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pmg47
I was looking at a Beretta 9000s today and noticed they will not fire if clip is out. Something new or has it been that way on other newer models?

The magazine disconnect safety is new with Beretta..Smith has been using it for years :target:

pmg47 · 01-16-2004, 06:24 PM

Thought so, knew I had not seen it before. Guess it will be a feature from here on out, or maybe just select models. Just something else that causes the prices to increase.Guess lawyers don't own firearms or just settle for one(handgun) for payment. LOL

01-16-2004, 06:53 PM

they have to protect themselves from every bonehead that can't take the blame for their own mistakes and can find a sympathetic judge, jury and lawyer

02-01-2004, 10:37 AM

http://www.gazette.net/200405/prince.../199355-1.html

colt45 · 02-01-2004, 11:36 AM

RULE NUMBER ONE TREAT EVERY GUN AS IF IT WHERE LOADED.

h1humma · 03-25-2004, 05:21 PM

the kid that did that is just plain STUPID i'm 14 and i no not 2 got get som1's gun take tha clip out thinking it's un loaded and point it at some1. the only person at blame for this is the kid for havin such a STUPID AS* idea

P22 · 03-25-2004, 07:18 PM

Crapola,
I'm gonna have to learn to read all the instructions. I mistakenly voted no, as I was thinking it was a for or against poll on the lawsuit, I missed the word "frivilous".
The owner of the gun is at fault.

Despoiler · 03-26-2004, 02:27 AM

While a chambered round indicator are a nice idea, they should not be necessary. Like my dad always told me, Treat every gun as if it was loaded (Even if you knew it was not). Guns are dangerous tools, if the operator does not know what they are doing.
If the parents had a gun in the house and did not teach their children gun safety I feel that they have they are at fault, not the gun maker!
Why is it if a 15 yr old takes out the family car and runs down someone we don't go after the auto maker, but our society wants to go after a gun maker if it is used irresponsibly.

View Poll Results: frivolous ?
yes	25	92.59%
no	2	7.41%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

12-07-2003, 03:16 PM	#1
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	Beretta's lawsuit Legal fight targets gun design in fatality Resurrected civil lawsuit against Beretta By Glenn Chapman, STAFF WRITER OAKLAND -- Lawyers Monday will resume battling about whether the Beretta company is responsible for a Berkeley teenager's shooting death because the design of its semi-automatic pistol didn't make it obvious there was a bullet in the chamber. A resurrected civil lawsuit against Beretta U.S.A. charges a gun design flaw resulted in the accidental killing of Griffin "Kenzo" Dix in May 1994. Beretta's defense team has countered that fault lies with the family of Michael Soe, who was 14 years old when he aimed his father's Beretta 92 Compact L handgun at Dix and pulled the trigger without making certain the chamber was empty. Dix was shot in the heart. "If a cheap disposable camera can tell you when it's loaded, surely a handgun should indicate when there is a bullet in the chamber," Dix's father, Griffin Dix, wrote in a local newspaper editorial published after legislation was passed requiring clear chamber-loaded indicators and mechanisms that make guns inoperable if bullet clips are removed. "Effective designs for loaded-chamber indicators and magazine disconnect safety devices have been available for many decades." The 9-mm Beretta pistol that killed Dix was defective because the chamber-loaded indicator was tiny and difficult to see, the suit against the gun maker charges. The indicator on the pistol was a small red dot that rose a millimeter when a round was in the chamber. Soe got the gun from a camera bag next to his father's bed and popped out the magazine, thinking he had unloaded the weapon before pointing it at his friend, according to Griffin Dix. Soe's dad, Clarence, reportedly bought the gun the previous year. Griffin Dix maintains Soe would not have squeezed the trigger if the Beretta had been designed to make it easy to see a bullet was in the chamber. Griffin and Lynn Dix, a Berkeley couple, filed a wrongful death suit in Alameda County Superior Court in 1995. The suit demanded $7.5 million in damages. A civil trial ended with jurors exonerating Beretta. The way was cleared for a retrial after an appellate court ruled a panelist came to the jury box convinced it was Clarence Soe's responsibility, not the gun maker's, to ensure the pistol was properly stored and his son was taught firearm safety. "I believe in parental responsibility," the juror was quoted as saying in court documents. "There is too much laxness in society today." The juror was "belligerent and domineering," disrupted deliberations, denigrated dissenting members of the panel and browbeat peers to his position, appellate court documents indicate. Alameda County Superior Court Judge Gordon Baranco is presiding over the new jury trial. Michael Soe was among those called to testify since opposing lawyers made opening statements to jurors Dec. 2. Presentation of evidence is to continue in Baranco's courtroom in the County Administration Building at 1221 Oak St. :target:

12-07-2003, 03:23 PM	#2
Sniper[MI] Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Future 51st state, "New Hope" Posts: 3,796	it's BULLPUCKEY! The a hole that aimed the gun is responsible for the others death, period!!! Any jackhole that would aim a gun at another without the intent of shooting the other is just asking for trouble. The man is dead cause the other man is a stupid Jack Arse! Thats it, Beretta has nothing to do with it! __________________ FNUH!

12-07-2003, 03:49 PM	#3
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,432 Images: 13	Since when was it a crime not to have invented something? Loaded chamber indicators are a new thing. There was a time when they didn't exist. Are we going to sue the medical community for not finding a cure for cancer yet? For crying out loud, this is hurlworthy... __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

12-07-2003, 07:40 PM	#5
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,432 Images: 13	Thanks for the Walther info, I just keep seeing more modern guns include a loaded chamber indicator that it seems like more of a new thing. I still think the arguement stands, though, that one should never be prosecuted for not building something. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

12-07-2003, 04:01 PM	#4
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	loaded chamber indicators have been around since 1929 when the first Walther PPK showed up

12-07-2003, 10:05 PM	#6
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	I wish loaded chamber indicators were more popular with manufacturers..but I don't want it to be legally mandatory..

12-08-2003, 01:30 AM	#7
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,432 Images: 13	They're getting there... Steyrs, Springfield XDs, the latest Glocks, I'm not sure about the new Smith/Walthers. I like it on my Steyr (in case anyone hasn't noticed, I like my Steyr). __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

01-01-2004, 04:57 PM	#8
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	http://www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1...850336,00.html Gun case declared a mistrial due to hung jury Jurors split on Beretta's culpability By Glenn Chapman, STAFF WRITER OAKLAND -- A mistrial was declared Tuesday after jurors deadlocked over whether the design of a Beretta pistol caused the accidental shooting death of a Berkeley teenager in 1994. It was the second time Alameda County jurors pondered the circumstances that ended with Kenzo Dix shot dead by a 14-year-old friend showing off a gun he thought was unloaded. The first civil trial ended with jurors exonerating the Beretta gun company. Their verdict was overturned by an appellate court that ruled a juror convinced parents are responsible for weapons in their homes had bullied other jurors and affected the outcome. Alameda County Superior Court Judge Gordon Baranco presided over the second civil trial, which ended Tuesday in a mistrial after it became apparent the jury was irrevocably divided about whether the gun maker was culpable. "They failed to convince two separate Alameda County juries that it was the pistol design that was at fault," said attorney Craig Livingston, who defended Beretta at trial. "It is my hope that the family will find a more productive way to deal with the tragic loss of their son. It is time to have closure to it." Dix's parents and their attorney stepped from Baranco's courtroom Tuesday vowing to take their case to trial for a third time. Mistrials come with the option of renewing proceedings. The option of a third trial is to be discussed at a Jan. 2 hearing. "We got a lot further up the hill this time," said Dix's mother, Lynn. "I think the gun companies are on notice that they have to make guns a lot safer." Lynn and Griffin Dix, who are divorced, condemned proposed legislation that would insulate gun makers from wrongful death suits. "These lawsuits are not frivolous," the mother said, referring to firearms companies as callous. "It is our only recourse." Attorneys said after the mistrial was declared, the jurors reportedly agreed the Beretta semi-automatic pistol at issue in the case was well-made and that gun owners should make certain weapons are safely handled. Livingston said the Dix family was capably represented by the Keker & Van Nest law firm in San Francisco, and was able to incorporate a decade's worth of firearm design evolution into their case. Dix lawyer Elliot Peters argued at trial the chamber-loaded indicator on the Beretta 92 Compact L wielded by Michael Soe that fateful day was ineffective, and that inexpensive design changes would have prevented the fatal accident. "They are still selling these guns," Griffin Dix said Tuesday. "They are, essentially, ignoring deaths that could be prevented." Livingston argued at trial it would be ridiculous to find Beretta at fault for marketing a high-quality Italian pistol built with safety features that performed as intended. The blame for the tragedy rests with Michael Soe and his father, Clarence, Livingston argued. The day Michael Soe got the gun from his father's bedroom he was so intent on impressing his friend and going undetected by elders in the house that he didn't bother to check whether there was a bullet in the chamber, Livingston said at trial. Griffin Dix praised state legislation requiring handguns sold in California as of 2007 to feature clear chamber-loaded indicators and locking mechanisms activated when ammunition clips are removed.

01-01-2004, 08:12 PM	#9
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 7,018	I think a loaded chamber like that on the PPK is an excellent feature,but it doesn't replace unsafe gun handling,period!:nod: __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

01-15-2004, 10:13 PM	#10
pmg47 Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 24	I was looking at a Beretta 9000s today and noticed they will not fire if clip is out. Something new or has it been that way on other newer models? __________________ There is nothing better than a beer in your hand and a dog at your feet.

01-15-2004, 11:16 PM	#11
MAX7.62 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Classified Posts: 934	Kimber uses a small slot in the top of the chamber that allows you to see the rear of the cartridge if there's one in the pipe. Also their "tactical" external extractor on the newer models serves as a chamber indicator. Person picks up pistol, drops magazine, aims at friend, kills friend - "I thought it was unloaded, I took out the clip" = bad firearms training. Father bought the Beretta a year earlier, probably went to the range once, maybe, never had any formal training - probably, etc. Why not let the lawyers kick the dad's butt for neglegence for not teaching his kid gun smarts? __________________ The Second Amendment, it ain't about DUCK HUNTING! I feel more like I do now that I did when I first got here!

01-16-2004, 02:19 AM	#12
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,599 Images: 1	I think these lawsuits need to be made unlawful - the next step is to eliminate the trial laywers who try these types of lawsuits purely for the money __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

01-16-2004, 06:24 PM	#14
pmg47 Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 24	Thought so, knew I had not seen it before. Guess it will be a feature from here on out, or maybe just select models. Just something else that causes the prices to increase.Guess lawyers don't own firearms or just settle for one(handgun) for payment. LOL __________________ There is nothing better than a beer in your hand and a dog at your feet.

01-16-2004, 06:53 PM	#15
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	they have to protect themselves from every bonehead that can't take the blame for their own mistakes and can find a sympathetic judge, jury and lawyer

02-01-2004, 11:36 AM	#17
colt45 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Occupied Territories of New York (Buffalo) Posts: 2,898	RULE NUMBER ONE TREAT EVERY GUN AS IF IT WHERE LOADED. __________________ "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis "If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective." - Ted Nugent "Self-defense is Nature's eldest law." -John Dryden

02-01-2004, 10:37 AM	#16
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	http://www.gazette.net/200405/prince.../199355-1.html

03-25-2004, 05:21 PM	#18
h1humma Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: VA Posts: 51	the kid that did that is just plain STUPID i'm 14 and i no not 2 got get som1's gun take tha clip out thinking it's un loaded and point it at some1. the only person at blame for this is the kid for havin such a STUPID AS* idea

03-25-2004, 07:18 PM	#19
P22 Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: N.E. TEXAS Posts: 17	Crapola, I'm gonna have to learn to read all the instructions. I mistakenly voted no, as I was thinking it was a for or against poll on the lawsuit, I missed the word "frivilous". The owner of the gun is at fault.

03-26-2004, 02:27 AM	#20
Despoiler Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Occupied Territory of California Posts: 2,232	While a chambered round indicator are a nice idea, they should not be necessary. Like my dad always told me, Treat every gun as if it was loaded (Even if you knew it was not). Guns are dangerous tools, if the operator does not know what they are doing. If the parents had a gun in the house and did not teach their children gun safety I feel that they have they are at fault, not the gun maker! Why is it if a 15 yr old takes out the family car and runs down someone we don't go after the auto maker, but our society wants to go after a gun maker if it is used irresponsibly.