News about the Beretta M9 for US Army & M9A1 for the US Marines:

[9mmfan]

Beretta has been awarded a multi-year contract by the U.S. Army to deliver M9 pistols to servicemen and women as part of the U.S. Government commitment to ensure the operational safety and readiness of U.S. Armed Services

NEWS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Editorial Contact:
Karen Lutto
Lutto PR (press office)


Matteo Recanatini, Marketing Manager
LE/DoD Division
Beretta USA Corporation

UNITED STATES ARMY LAUNCHES NEW YEAR WITH PURCHASE
OF 25,403 U.S. MADE BERETTA M9 PISTOLS

ACCOKEEK, MD (January 17, 2008) — Beretta has just announced that it has been awarded a multi-year contract by the U.S. Army to deliver M9 pistols to servicemen and women as part of the U.S. Government commitment to ensure the operational safety and readiness of U.S. Armed Services worldwide.


The contract is for 25,403 M9 pistols with deliveries starting in June 2008 and continuing until February 2010. The U.S. Army also reserves the right to purchase additional M9 pistols as needed to meet their needs. All of these M9 pistols will continue to be manufactured at the Beretta U.S.A. facility located in Accokeek, Maryland.


“Beretta is always honored to assist the U.S. Armed Forces in defending our country,” stated Jeff Reh, Vice-General Manager for Beretta U.S.A. Corp. "The Beretta M9 pistol remains the most reliable and well-tested handgun in the U.S. military inventory, with tests resulting in an average of only one malfunction every 20,500 rounds fired. U.S. Government witnessed testing at our factory has confirmed this remarkable reliability.” Mr. Reh added that, “Beretta U.S.A. Corp. has supplied the Beretta M9 pistol as the standard sidearm for the U.S. Armed Forces since 1985 and continues to make investments in manufacturing capability, R&D and product development to serve the needs of the U.S. Military and Homeland Defense community. “


"We are proud to be able to provide the U.S. Armed Forces with a reliable, robust sidearm that will perform when needed to defend the lives of our servicemen and women”, said Elio J. Oliva, Vice-President of Sales and Marketing for Law Enforcement and DoD at Beretta U.S.A. Corp. “We understand that the M9 is not a primary weapon system and that it is often used a weapon of last resort, in close quarters and under demanding conditions. When U.S. servicemen deploy their M9 in theater it needs to work. All 350 employees at Beretta U.S.A. understand the importance of this mission and remain committed to delivering the highest quality products to our Military”, said Mr. Oliva.


“Each of our M9 pistols is test fired with proof rounds and tested for accuracy at 50 meters”, said Gabriele de Plano, Vice-President of Product Development at Beretta U.S.A. Corp. “We have continued to invest significant resources to improve the quality and already impressive performance and reliability of the M9 through the years. We have also developed new accessories such as high-lubricity sand-resistant magazines to deliver improved performance in the unique environmental conditions of the Afghan and Iraqi theaters”, added Mr. de Plano. Each Beretta M9 pistol ships with 15-round standard magazines and is designed to accept 20-round magazines.


In 2005, Beretta U.S.A. Corp. received 13 contracts for M9 pistols and component parts from the U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps. Many of the U.S. Army purchases were multi-year contracts lasting five years, from which over $31 million dollars in purchase orders have since been issued to Beretta U.S.A. Corp.


In addition to the M9, Beretta U.S.A. has developed the M9A1 pistol which incorporates various enhancements such as integrated Picatinny rail, enhanced grip checkering and magazine well modifications to allow for quicker tactical reloads. To date Beretta U.S.A. has supplied over 4,000 M9A1 pistols to the United States Marine Corps.

About Beretta Law Enforcement:

In addition to producing the celebrated M-9 pistol, the official sidearm of the five branches of the US Armed Forces, Beretta also outfits law enforcement and homeland security agencies across the United States.

Through its recently-launched Total Solution™ system, Beretta combines the strengths and core-competencies of every company within the Beretta Holding Group to provide optimal products and services to the Law Enforcement and Defense community. Beretta’s Total Solution™ provides a complete array of products to suit diverse regional conditions and meet agency objectives and needs. These include the polymer Storm family of products (Cx4 carbines and Px4 pistols), the Benelli line of shotguns, including the M4 Super 90, adopted by the United States Marine Corps, the SAKO and Tikka line of sniper rifles, the line of shotguns and pistols offered by Stoeger, and the hi-tech line of optics manufactured in the US by Burris.

[ArkansasHunter]

The Air Force awarded a contract to Glock too.

EDIT...What becomes of the guns there replaceing ? Anyone know ?

[two-70]

glocks are the best in my opinion, lots better than the M9

[Shaun]

This is great they are still getting a high quality gun and definitely one that is better than any glock ever made.

[ArkansasHunter]

Don't bet on it !

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

The Air Force awarded a contract to Glock too.

EDIT...What becomes of the guns there replaceing ? Anyone know ?

... I believe they are sold off to Allies... kinda like F-16's to Poland, etc.

The new Beretta 92'a are junk, not made nearly as well as the originals.

As Air Force... I'll bet we go to Glock (as ArkansasHunter specified) in .40 ... maybe .45. As far as I'm concerned... the 9mm is done...

[hawkeye_gunner]

Why are these pistols junk?

[ArkansasHunter]

My son who is now a Park Ranger told me Our State Parks were changeing from A Glock 40 S&W to A Glock 45 caliber.
I'm sorry I can't ever remember the model numbers.
He was told it would be late this summer before they get the 45 calibers because the U.S. Air Force put in a big order.
Thats all I know...A.H


Thanks Larry for your info.

[9mmfan]

Which new Beretta are you calling junk? How can they be called junk if the Army just sign a new contact for over 25,000 new M9's? The contract runs till atleast 2010. It has been in use by the US Army sence 1985. I own three Beretta's, the 92FS, the Beretta 9000S and the Neos .22 and I have shot thousands of rounds through each without one malfunction. They have been the most reliable handguns I have ever own.......and 168,000 rounds without a single malfunction test under Army supervision speaks for it's self. No other hand gun can touch that record. I know that Glock and SIG makes good handguns also, but calling the Beretta 92FS junk is crazy. The proof is in writing:


"The Ultimate Pistol.
Each Beretta 92FS must pass a battery of more then 3,000 quality control check and measure that includes complete interchangeability of parts before leaving the factory... and proven in the field in countless defensive confrontations, the 92FS is in all respects the “ultimate”.

A legendary Firearm.
The most tested and trusted personal defense weapon in history. The 92FS, designated M9 by the U.S. Military, not only meets or exceeds all U.S. Military testing guidelines, it totally rewrites them.

Beretta U.S.A. Reliability and Durability Statistics for the Beretta 9mm Pistol.
• The average reliability of all M9 pistols tested at Beretta U.S.A. is 17,500 rounds without a stoppage.
• During one test of twelve pistols fired at Beretta U.S.A. before Army supervision, Beretta-made M9 pistols shot 168,000 rounds without a single malfunction.
• The Beretta 9mm pistol was the most reliable of all pistols tested in the 1984 competition which resulted in the award of the M9 contract to Beretta.
• Two-thirds of all M9 pistols endurance tested at Beretta U.S.A. fired 5,000 rounds without a single malfunction or, at most, with only one malfunction.
• The average durability of Beretta M9 slides is over 35,000 rounds, the point at which U.S. Army testing ceases.
• The average durability of M9 frames is over 30,000 rounds. The average durability of M9 locking blocks is 22,000 rounds.

Precise, Safe, Reliable.
92 Series Pistols are semi-automatics and operate on the short recoil, delayed locking block system, which yields a faster cycle time and delivers exceptional accuracy and reliability.
Each features a lightweight, forged frame made form aircraft-quality aluminum alloy, with a open top frame which makes jamming almost impossible.
On FS models, the manual safety also functions as a decocking lever.
A firing pin block secures the firing pin."

[Shaun]

i have had my 92F for 20 years and I have to say it is one of the best I have ever owned and shot the most. I would put it up against any of the glocks that commonly jam

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by hawkeye_gunner

Why are these pistols junk?

The older 92's were made better... heavier, more solid. The new ones have a lot of what seems like aircraft plastics in the slide and frame. The muzzle flip is very pronounced over earlier versions.

My choice... I'd take the older version any day.

Originally Posted by Shaun

i have had my 92F for 20 years and I have to say it is one of the best I have ever owned and shot the most. I would put it up against any of the glocks that commonly jam

Shaun, you are right... the older, more original versions are the best of the two.

Hey, let's face it.... I carry one every day... but I just prefer the older version.

I am not attempting to "stir the pot" here. The new versions of the 92 are just made differently than the originals. Hold the two side-by-side and you can feel the weight difference. That added weight to me... I like it.

I will say that the new version of the 92 has a better sight system than the original, I personally like the 3-dot system.

To each his own I guess...

[9mmfan]

The "new" Beretta 9mm is called the 90Two, it has a thicker slide and frame, but only time will tell if will have the GREAT reliability record of the 92FS. I also carry one daily, by choice. I place my life in the Beretta 92FS each day I go to work, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Here are some pictures of the new 90Two:


Beretta 90two

[LarryO1970]

The "new" Beretta 9mm is called the 90Two, it has a thicker slide and frame, but only time will tell if will have the GREAT reliability record of the 92FS.

... this is not the one I am referring to. I am referring to the newer production of the 92FS ... same as the military has carried for years. This is a civilian version and not what I am talking about...

[ArkansasHunter]

I've never heard of Glocks Jammimg commonly.
A.H

[GlockMeister]

When are they going to give them one with some real stopping power though? I love the Beretta M9 and the Glock, but give them at the very least a .40 in the Glock and at the very least a .45. if not in a Beretta, something. Probably wouldn't any longer be in the M9 configuration if a Beretta, but a 9mm tends to sometimes just pissing someone off instead of dropping them, unless you get a head shot or other vital organ hit. But in combat and the heat of the moment, you generally don;t have the time to sit there and aim or ask the person to quit moving or hiding so you can take a decent shot.

Watched a show on this the other night, about the lack of stopping power in the 9mm on the military channel or maybe it was the history channel? Either way the guy had commented on how little stopping power the 9mm had and unless you got a vital organ or head shot, the odds were the person could still live long enough to still be a threat or get away and live to fight another day.

I'd rather, in combat, carry something that I know will take them out with the 1st and if not it then the 2nd shot, as a .45 would, rather then have the 9mm and have maybe 3 hits on the person and still have them shooting,coming at me. The big difference and + with the 9mm though is the round/magazine capacity. Which is why I mentioned the .40cal. You can still get at least a 15 round magazine (Glock) over the 7 or 8 round of the standard .45.

I do believe however I saw a .45 where the configuration allowed a 10 or 12 round capacity? I can't remember which brand or model it was or which show I heard or saw it on. I do remember hearing it though. And no it wasn't the Glock .45GAP round either or maybe it was, hell I can't remember. lol Although there is another thought, the .45GAP round. I'd personally still take that over 9mm if ever in combat and given the choice. Too bad our boys can't carry their personal firearms that they're familiar with and use to, hand guns anyhow. I know some specialized units do get the .45 still.

I'm personally glad they extended Beretta contract or gave them a new one. They are tried and true to work when needed and an overall great gun (M9) and company. Although, in this recent testing ground where our men and women are now, I haven't heard what the sand and dust is doing to them like I have the M4.

G-Meister

[9mmfan]

While there are a few polymer parts on the newer 92FS guns like the safety, most of the parts, like the slide are still made of steel. The frame is still made with aircraft-quality aluminum alloy like it always has been. But like I have said before, calling the new Beretta 92FS junk is crazy. Some people like the light weight of a Glock. That's one reason why Glock has become so popular. Everyone on this web site is going to have guns that they like better than others. There is no right or wrong answer here. The gun a person can shoot the best and is the most reliable for them to use is the gun they should own.

The Glock, the SIG and the Beretta are all great guns that are made great companys. But most foreign gun companys refuse to open a plant in the USA to manufacture their firearms. Even though they are making thousands for law enforcement. This is just one of the many reasons I like Beretta, not only are they the most reliable handguns I have ever owned most are also made in the USA. And giving jobs to americans. In fact, most of the guns that Beretta is selling is the US are made at their manufacturing plant in Maryland.

It's just to bad that the US military can't use something like the 9mm 147 gr. Hydro-shock.


(gel shots by Doug Carr)

"Take your pick. They all look like they'd do the job. If you do your job with shot placement.

Notice the heavier bullets - the FBI considers 12 inches of penetration a minimum to effectively stop the threat. Don't use those light 115gr 9mm or other weak useless "frangible" rounds that don't offer enough penetration."

The M9 and the 92FS is not the same gun. The following is from Beretta and the US military:

From Beretta regarding the USA 92FS and Italian 92FS:

Quote:
All of the technical specifications are the same. All parts are interchangeable. There are no technical differences.
The only exceptions on the Italian made 92FS’s are:
Italian markings
Barrel will usually be marked "9MM"
Inox and .40 Cal. slides will have different markings on slide denoting Inox and .40 Cal./9mm.

Note that previously, it was thought that the barrel was cold hammer forged in the Italian versions, but that is NOT true. (PX4 and Cougar barrels are, however). Apparently, the barrel isn't always marked 9mm either.

The differences between the M9 and 92FS:

• The M9 usually has a straight dustcover and non-radiused backstrap (Contract Pistols will always be straight/straight)
• The 92FS (recent model) has a radiused backstrap and angled dustcover
• M9 markings (including proof markings and cage # markings)
• M9 lacks the warning to read owner's manual
• The rear sight of the 92FS has 2 dots, whereas the M9 has a single half-moon
• M9 (unless special or limited edition) comes in cardboard box, with no plastic hard case

All model 92/M9/M9A1/96/90Two model barrels are made the same way.

All other aspects of 92FS and M9 are similar/identical. This includes warnings and polymer coated parts.

[GlockMeister]

Originally Posted by 9mmfan

While there are a few polymer parts on the newer 92FS guns like the safety, most of the parts, like the slide are still made of steel. The frame is still made with aircraft-quality aluminum alloy like it always has been. But like I have said before, calling the new Beretta 92FS junk is crazy. Some people like the light weight of a Glock. That's one reason why Glock has become so popular. Everyone on this web site is going to have guns that they like better than others. There is no right or wrong answer here. The gun a person can shoot the best and is the most reliable for them to use is the gun they should own.

The Glock, the SIG and the Beretta are all great guns that are made great companys. But most foreign gun companys refuse to open a plant in the USA to manufacture their firearms. Even though they are making thousands for law enforcement. This is just one of the many reasons I like Beretta, not only are they the most reliable handguns I have ever owned most are also made in the USA. And giving jobs to americans. In fact, most of the guns that Beretta is selling is the US are made at their manufacturing plant in Maryland.

It's just to bad that the US military can't use something like the 9mm 147 gr. Hydro-shock.


(gel shots by Doug Carr)

"Take your pick. They all look like they'd do the job. If you do your job with shot placement.

Notice the heavier bullets - the FBI considers 12 inches of penetration a minimum to effectively stop the threat. Don't use those light 115gr 9mm or other weak useless "frangible" rounds that don't offer enough penetration."

But this type of test, in my mind, doesn't show the amount of damage done. I mean, sure a 9mm 147gr. hydro shock may have more penetration but if it doesn't have any umph behind it and it doesn't leave as much damage in its' path, the odds are it can just go through and through. That's what the discussion was on that show I watched. I wish I could remember which one it was. I hate quoting what I heard and not being able to remember where I heard/saw it to back it up, especially when I know I did. lol

Do your own test, take a few melons and shoot one with a 9mm and the other with a .40 and the other with a .45. no hollow point, just a standard grained round in FMJ for all three calibers. Compare the damage. Compare the through and through, if any, and the amount of damage done on the way through.

On the picture you have in this post, the 9mm 147gr. hydro shock went what maybe 1 " more then the 230 gr.45 ACP, but look at the spread of the round? The 9mm 147gr. hydro shock went about what, a 1/4" more maybe then the 180gr .40cal? Again, look at the spread of the round compared to the 9mm?

I suppose this is a disagreement that could go on forever. Just like the one of bolt action over semi-auto for sniping. Revolver over semi-auto. All of which were kind of friendly argued on Guns and Ammo. They both have their good and bad points. The same I suppose could be said of this topic.

I would take the .40 15 round mag. or even the .45ACP 8 round mag over the 9mm if I had a choice. I would except the 9mm and it's 17 round mags, (which I don't even think are standard issue, think it is only a 15 rounder) if that is all that was offered. But I don't believe, that in the military, which is where this conversation originated from, Beretta getting a new contract for the M9, that they issue them 9mm 147gr hydro shocks as the ammo? They issue standard FMJ 9mm round. (The NATO approved standard round only the members of NATO seem to honor, to avoid overkill) (but wait, it's war, your killing and maiming anyhow, what difference does it make if in the process you're assured from the first shot, they aren't going to get back up?) And that is why I said I'd take and they should issue either of those 2 rounds in FMJ over the 9mm.

In the end though, it all comes down to personal preference. I look forward to further friendly debate.

G-Meister

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by 9mmfan

While there are a few polymer parts on the newer 92FS guns like the safety, most of the parts, like the slide are still made of steel. The frame is still made with aircraft-quality aluminum alloy like it always has been. But like I have said before, calling the new Beretta 92FS junk is crazy. Some people like the light weight of a Glock. That's one reason why Glock has become so popular. Everyone on this web site is going to have guns that they like better than others. There is no right or wrong answer here. The gun a person can shoot the best and is the most reliable for them to use is the gun they should own.

The Glock, the SIG and the Beretta are all great guns that are made great companys. But most foreign gun companys refuse to open a plant in the USA to manufacture their firearms. Even though they are making thousands for law enforcement. This is just one of the many reasons I like Beretta, not only are they the most reliable handguns I have ever owned most are also made in the USA. And giving jobs to americans. In fact, most of the guns that Beretta is selling is the US are made at their manufacturing plant in Maryland.

It's just to bad that the US military can't use something like the 9mm 147 gr. Hydro-shock.


(gel shots by Doug Carr)

"Take your pick. They all look like they'd do the job. If you do your job with shot placement.

Notice the heavier bullets - the FBI considers 12 inches of penetration a minimum to effectively stop the threat. Don't use those light 115gr 9mm or other weak useless "frangible" rounds that don't offer enough penetration."

The M9 and the 92FS is not the same gun. The following is from Beretta and the US military:

From Beretta regarding the USA 92FS and Italian 92FS:

Quote:
All of the technical specifications are the same. All parts are interchangeable. There are no technical differences.
The only exceptions on the Italian made 92FS’s are:
Italian markings
Barrel will usually be marked "9MM"
Inox and .40 Cal. slides will have different markings on slide denoting Inox and .40 Cal./9mm.

Note that previously, it was thought that the barrel was cold hammer forged in the Italian versions, but that is NOT true. (PX4 and Cougar barrels are, however). Apparently, the barrel isn't always marked 9mm either.

The differences between the M9 and 92FS:

• The M9 usually has a straight dustcover and non-radiused backstrap (Contract Pistols will always be straight/straight)
• The 92FS (recent model) has a radiused backstrap and angled dustcover
• M9 markings (including proof markings and cage # markings)
• M9 lacks the warning to read owner's manual
• The rear sight of the 92FS has 2 dots, whereas the M9 has a single half-moon
• M9 (unless special or limited edition) comes in cardboard box, with no plastic hard case

All model 92/M9/M9A1/96/90Two model barrels are made the same way.

All other aspects of 92FS and M9 are similar/identical. This includes warnings and polymer coated parts.

Keep in mind that you did not show how FMJ rounds perform. HydraShock rounds are not standard rounds for combat or usual military encounters.

I would agree GlockMeister, it all comes down to personal preference... unless you are dictated by a department what you will use (what is acceptable by the city/county/state) in a professional capacity.

I say the new 92 is "junk" because of my admiration for the earlier version. While it truly isn't "junk" ... I personally prefer the earlier version, which others may not. Hey, it's their choice, not mine.

My understanding is that the Glock (.45) will be replacing the Beretta (9mm) (which was tied to the survival of the AB in Aviano)... I do have mixed (personal) feelings on this. I like the Beretta better than the Glock... probably due to exposure and training.

To each his own brother...

[Wingwiper]

I was under the impression the Military was going to drop that piece of crap and go back to the .45 cal. I heard it was due out in the next year or two.
I will say the Berretta is very comfortable to hold but its accuracy is not as good as the M1911 nor does it have the stopping power of the .45.

I found it odd way back when we were first issued these firearms why the U.S. would sign a contract for a Military Firearm to a once MAJOR U.S. Enemy.

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by Wingwiper

I was under the impression the Military was going to drop that piece of crap and go back to the .45 cal. I heard it was due out in the next year or two.
I will say the Berretta is very comfortable to hold but its accuracy is not as good as the M1911 nor does it have the stopping power of the .45.

I found it odd way back when we were first issued these firearms why the U.S. would sign a contract for a Military Firearm to a once MAJOR U.S. Enemy.

I have been hearing that (at least the AF) is going to the Glock in .45 ...