Here is a question for you; why do some animals drop on the spot when shot and others run no matter what you shoot them with? One fellow told me he shot an 880 lb moose in the lungs with a .338 Win Magnum and it ran across in front of him. He shot it with the semi auto through the lungs as it ran emptying the clip and it continued to run and went into a swamp over 100 yards away before going down.
Another kid in my town shot a bull moose of the same size with a 6.5 140 grain bullet at 175 yards from a M-7 Rem .260 in the heart and it dropped in it's tracks.
Another hunter shot a big whitetail buck in the heart with a 130 gr .270 Win at 50 yards and it turned and ran at him and into the tree in front of the hunter.
I shot a whitetail buck in the heart/lungs with a .25 -06 120 bullet as it was running along at a slow pace and it fell over and never twitched!
I shot another with a 140 gr 6.5 X 55 at 120 paces and hit it long ways. The bullet entered the chest at the base of the neck just above the brisket. It did not hit a bone and went through the heart, part of one lung the liver and paunch the intestine into the groin exited the abdominal cavity and ran under the hide to the rt knee where it was lodged. The deer ran as if nothing had happened and dropped 50 yards away!
Strange isn't it how the animals respond some running basically dead on their feet and others drop on the spot. Does anyone have science to explain this?
I read an article that explained this. If my memory is correct it has something to do with where the heart is in it's beat pattern at the moment of impact. Of course effect of the bullet on the central nervous system has a big effect also.
__________________
Dedicated to the memory of Ronald "Dad" Knutson Sr. 1936-2013
I think if the animal is unaware of danger when shot, they drop. (good hit only) when they are tensed up, scared or already running, they keep going even while dead.
I never read the article you mentioned but it sounds interesting. The topic is interesting to me as I decide if I really need an additional rifle or simply make extra sure of my shot placement when hunting black bear and when I draw that Vermont moose tag next season! One friend who is well traveled answered, when I mentioned the .338 X 06 as a possibly good choice for New England moose hunting, that his experience with the .338 Win Mag and moose mentioned above has him interested in a larger caliber! Well I suppose there are plenty of hunters that agree with him but I know I can't shoot one of the big guns accurately. My 30 06 with 165 gr is all I can handle and be accurate and it is not as accurate as my 6.5 X 55. I tried 200 gr in the 06 and it nearly killed me and it shot poorly. I do know if I were to load my 6.5 X 55 with a 160 Hornady or 156 gr Norma Alaska bullet and keep my shots to 150 yards I can put it where it needs to go. To my thinking bullet placement is the key but never having shot a moose it is easy for me to think I know something when I probably do not.
Some drop and some run; we hunters would be well served to have the science behind this figured out and know exactly what is going on when some good hits drop and some run. It certainly would help with proper cartridge and load selection beyond the basic understanding we all have in terms of desired penetration.
I appreciate your thoughts.
^^ I'm with blaster. I think the flow of adrenalin has a lot to do with it. Shot placement definitely doesn't hurt either.
That would be my understand as well but for example the buck I shot with a
25 06 which dropped as it was running had been pushed and it was in the fleeing mode yet it went down instantly. I am willing to bet the bullet makers have given this some thought.
When it comes to black bears and moose many hunters prefer heavy large diameter bullets which penetrate deeply but are not necessarily fast rounds. For me there has come a point where I simply know I will not shoot well with more gun than I own. I need to feel confident with my rifle and ability to shoot it accurately or face buck fever and a wounded animal.
As you can read there he hunted lions with a single shot 303 British. Later he killed over 1500 elephants with calibers such as the 7x57 Mauser, 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Scoenauer, and the 303 British usually with military bullets. The traditional wisdom of the day was that it required large bore exotic calibers with special bullets to harvest African game. (and still that is hypothesized)
I subscribe to the opinion that calibers between 6MM and about 7.62MM loaded to moderate velocities with decent bullets bring all the killing potential to bear that most shooters are capable of accurately shooting any way, Higher velocities, larger calibers, greater recoil, and expensive exotic bullets that function with the higher velocities do not translate into more game in the freezer in most cases.
Why some though drop in their tracks and others manage to run with seemingly fatal wounds sometimes just doesn't make sense does it?
Here is a question for you; why do some animals drop on the spot when shot and others run no matter what you shoot them with? One fellow told me he shot an 880 lb moose in the lungs with a .338 Win Magnum and it ran across in front of him. He shot it with the semi auto through the lungs as it ran emptying the clip and it continued to run and went into a swamp over 100 yards away before going down.
Another kid in my town shot a bull moose of the same size with a 6.5 140 grain bullet at 175 yards from a M-7 Rem .260 in the heart and it dropped in it's tracks.
Another hunter shot a big whitetail buck in the heart with a 130 gr .270 Win at 50 yards and it turned and ran at him and into the tree in front of the hunter.
I shot a whitetail buck in the heart/lungs with a .25 -06 120 bullet as it was running along at a slow pace and it fell over and never twitched!
I shot another with a 140 gr 6.5 X 55 at 120 paces and hit it long ways. The bullet entered the chest at the base of the neck just above the brisket. It did not hit a bone and went through the heart, part of one lung the liver and paunch the intestine into the groin exited the abdominal cavity and ran under the hide to the rt knee where it was lodged. The deer ran as if nothing had happened and dropped 50 yards away!
Strange isn't it how the animals respond some running basically dead on their feet and others drop on the spot. Does anyone have science to explain this?
Bobby
To answer your question. They DO NOT!
I have been hunting for 50+ years and shot MANY animals and I can say that none of them were hit exactly the same. Those I hit hard went down fast (less than 50 yds). It is all about blood loss (blood pressure loss to be exact). The only sure one shot DRT is a central nervous system hit.
I shoot for the 'boiler room' (heart/lung) and when I use the proper caliber/bullet combination and hit there I have never lost an animal.
Some have went down on impact, most of them were direct heart shots, and some ran for a short distance. I think it is natural reaction to 'flight' when they are startled.
__________________
An armed society is not always polite, but it is a FREE AND SAFE SOCIETY!
Regarding a gun for Vermont moose, Kype: if the ballistics tables are correct, you shouldn't need anything heavier than an accurized Mosin Nagant Model 91/30 shooting 203 grain softpoints. All of the Big Five dangerous game animals in Africa have been taken at one time or another with the Mighty Mosin, and they have considerably tougher hides than a North American moose. As you and others noted, it's all about shot placement.
all i know for certain after killing a lot of whitetailed deer, is there is only two shots guaranteed to absolutely drop one in its tracks. 1 is to sever the spine, and the other is to put a bullet in the brain. my own experience is that a heart shot animal may go 0 feet to 50yds. a lung shot (especially a single lung) can travel a long distance.
I've read where if you place your shot over the shoulder and about 4 inched under the deers back it will drop them on the spot due to the bullet causing trauma to the spine. I have tried that shot and it does what they said. The problem with that is that it doesn't seem to kill the animal, it paralyzes them and then you have to finish them off. Personally after doing that once I decided not to do it anymore because the animal suffers.
Location: upstate New Yorkistan [the first openly totalitian republic of AmeriKa]
Posts: 1,268
Any animal shot in the heart will run some distance if only a few yards. Shoot the animal in the neck, spine, or high in the lungs below the spine and they drop like lightning. If given a choice I aim for the neck or high shoulder/lung area and never have to chase them.
I asked a friend in Montenegro this same question and his reply is as follows and
it takes a some what spiritual understanding of this topic. Here is his reply. Heck I wish i could speak Serb as well as he writes English!
"Bobby
I cant answer to this question.It happened to me and I witness simillar thing many times..Strangest was one wild boar,about 200 lb,and my friend shoot it from 20 yards with breneke slug trough the heart and lungs.Slug went in and went out.That pig run away in full speed for 200 yards in very heavy and rocky terain like nothing happend.Me and my friend thought that he miss that pig,cleanly miss....But when hounds came they start to bark on one spot and we then knew that pig was there...........Very strange!
So that have nothing to do with calibar of rifle or place where that bullet hit the game..
We have here one word that I cant translate to English,that word is damar..it means something like life force and nervs that give life force....Well,that damar can make game runing even if they are dead.Animal(and even men sometimes) doesnt know that they are dead!"
That may be as good as it gets for an understanding of this. Damar, I'll remember that word.
Bobby
P.S. Just got back from sighting in the 30 06 and it shot well today or I did! I think I'll just load it up with a good heavy bullet and pray for my 2012 permit and stop worrying about guns and do more scouting.
Now out to my bow stand for the evening!
high in the shoulders ...takin out both thier front running gear works as well.
very few deer that i've hit with a heart shot haven't run at least a few yards.but i think some of the issue is not just placement but also varies with the individual deer itself....some just seem to wanna live a tad more.
I have been encouraged to give the 180 gr .30 a try for both accuracy and trajectory in the .30 06. My rifle doesn't like 200 gr Sierra Game kings. I tried them and they are not accurate in my rifle and I couldn't handle the recoil.
The Spear 180 gr Grand Slam has also been recommended and I'll have to give both a try unless the first is accurate right off.
Norma makes a 156 gr 6.5 Alaskan bullet for the 6.5 X 55 used in Scandinavia for moose. Vermont moose are closer to the Scandinavian moose size than Alaskan!
I should give that bullet a try in the 6.5 also it can't hurt to experiment.
Yesterday I spent the day scouting moose while keeping an eye open for bear. My companion and I found a spot in an area closed to motorized vehicles and few if any hunters will get to on foot. We also found a good spot, in the heart of very difficult to get to moose territory that we can pitch a tent! Can't wait for next season! Mean while we continue to scout and use GPS to identify the best areas we find. It was quite a hike for me 6 weeks after knee surgery but it has to be done!
We stopped at a check station and two archery moose had been reported there both bulls from our new this year archery only season. It has rained every day but the last day of the season,yesterday and still a successful Vermont archer shot a 830 lb bull with a 52 inch spread! Good for him!
My main gig is bow but I do enjoy rifle hunting also and put in for both permits with no success this time around. Next year!
how do you plan to get the moose out of the woods if you kill it in a no motor vehicle area?
Here in Vermont we still have guys that love their draft horses. We are allowed to contact these guys in advance of the hunt and make armaments with them. They come on over with the team and hall the moose out or you can quarter it and pack it out yourself. Some guys like me like the idea of having to walk, camp and work hard scouting and prefer not to use 4 wheelers. Most areas of Vermont, private lands, people run them. Using 4 wheelers on public land is a controversial thing here. Personally I don't care for them being used in hunting. They are a useful farm tool however and people often use them to work their land and hall feed to their animals. They serve a useful purpose that way but riding them around the woods........not for me.
Bobby
P.S. It is kind of cool to see these draft horses work. One of my neighbors had a team he used to plow his corn field every year just for the fun of it.
There is something very nostalgic about it which I enjoy. Kind of like using an old Mauser military conversion instead of a hot new Remington rifle.
8Likes
