Good 1st deer rifle.

Bountyhunter · 12-27-2005, 12:44 AM

Pball,

What part of the state do you live and hunt in? How old is the boy, and what is his temperment?

I got my first deer rifle when I was ten years old. It was a Remington M742 in .308. That was about 1958. I began shooting coyotes with it, as deer season wasnt open yet, but took the first deer with it in 1961.

If you live and hunt in the eastern end of the state and the boy is smaller and timid, then I'd say go with the .243, as it is basically a short range varmit gun, and will suffice for close range shots in the woods. Out where I live, it is mainly carried in the ranch trucks for coyotes. I've seen deer killed with a .243, but they didnt drop where shot, or had large chunks of meat all bloodshot. Most of them took more than one bullet to go down. Not good.

If you live west of 81 highway, then I'd say get the boy a .308. I'm from the Hays/Russell area and hunt there every season. The bucks there get over 300 pounds and a .243 just isnt humane, especially when some of the shots on the nice bucks will be at 300 yards or better. Savage has the best trigger, but if the boy has some growing to do yet, then look at the choices in the .308 semi-autos. Remington, Browning, and some others have some nice SA's. I still have my old 742, my wife and daughter both still hunt with it as I moved on to the .30-06. I think the 06 would be way to stiff to start a little guy on, but a .308 auto would do nicely, I started on one at 10.

Good luck. Work the little guy up to shooting a deer rifle first, and then see what he migrates to.......I hope that you find the wisdom to avoid the .243 for deer and that he is able to handle the .308. I dont know where you are, but if I were close, I'd bring my rifle and let him try it. Remember, you can load your own shells, and you can load them down a ways until he gets the hang of it. You dont have to go the magnum route first thing......

B

pball942 · 12-27-2005, 01:22 AM

Just west of 281 and south of 156 is some canyon county. Which can drasticly give you an advantage if you play it right (praying dosen't hurt either). But your 300 yard shot can be halfed and even quartered which is even why I would consider a .243 on our fine bucks. And shot placement is key. For that reason we target shoot at least every other week. But I do here you on in reguards to range. I can't even count the number of time that I've seen deer in the CRP and feed feilds.
In reguards to my son, far from timid that is why I stated at the begining of my string I felt confident he could handle a .308, but as I stated it's what my wife likes.
But that is the whole reason for this string, there other people out there with ideas that I never would have considerd. Thanks for your input Bounty

Copper · 12-27-2005, 10:55 AM

For out in you neck of the woods, I would consider looking at a .270. It shoots pretty flat and the recoil is on the mild side. When considering optics, remember the old saying "you get what you pay for" and this is especially true with optics. Another thing I would recommend for your area is a good bi-pod.

lefty o · 12-27-2005, 12:06 PM

i got to jump in, the only reason a 243 doesnt stop them quickly is because the idiot pulling the trigger did not do his job- it is not the fault of the cartridge. if the bullet is put in the heart, the animal will not go far- if your not capable of putting the bullet in the heart, you should not pull the trigger. i personally prefer the 7mm-08, but the .243 is more than capable of humanely taking deer.

JAMES · 12-27-2005, 08:16 PM

I've never fired one, but that 7mm-08 sure has some good looking ballistics data. So many great cartridges, so little time and money....

I don't think its right that you Kansans hog all of the big deer......If I ever saw a 300lb deer down here, I'd probably scream and run away! I bet we have bigger skunks than Kansas does, though. That's something to be proud of...

pball942 · 12-27-2005, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAMES

I bet we have bigger skunks than Kansas does, though. That's something to be proud of...

I don't think how it matters how big they are, they all stink! If your not too far south maybe next season you could come a little North. Have some great spots.

I would like to say thanks to everyone for their input and all the great ideas. It has really opened my eyes to many possibilities. I have started my own personal hunt for a Mosin Nagant and found a Mauser but in sorry condition. But those are all matters for other forums.

I asked my son today what he would like to have for a deer rifle, and I swear his head almost expolded. He hasn't given me an answer yet but well see what happens.

Copper · 12-28-2005, 04:17 PM

A good ole lever action .30-30 is hard to beat for a first deer rifle. You can pick up a new Winnie 94 or a Marlin for under $300. There is also no shortage of good used ones out there also and they can be had for around $200 -$250.

Try looking at the next gun show in your area. I've actually seen some still wrapped up in cosmoline paper at the Tulsa gun show.

JAMES · 12-29-2005, 08:55 PM

My first "deer rifle" was a Winchester 94 .30-30.....still have it, with its real walnut stock and absence of those extra special, double bubble safety levers, notches, and nick whackers. Now that I think about it, I never shot a thing with it.....I must be a dud. Well, I ain't givin it up anyhow.

That 7mm-08 is beginning to sound like a real fine choice for a young man from Kansas, or maybe a 260 Remington....hmmmm......

*subliminal message to follow:......buy the Mosin.......buy the Mosin.....

N2914J · 12-29-2005, 11:13 PM

I personally recommend a .30-.30. It was my first gun, I still have it, and its awsome. Its great for a beginners gun because its got VERY manageable recoil (12 lbs), simple to use, and easy to get comfortable with. Also, it has killed more deer than any other rifle (partly because its been around for so long). My Dad got my Marlin 336 at Wal-Mart for $279.99 I believe. Not a bad buy, and ammo isn't TO bad. I am DEFINITLEY no professional PBALL, but I recommend a .30-.30. I own a .30-.30 and a 7mm Magnum, and thats a dream team if I ever heard of one. .30-.30 for general deer hunting, and a rifle with the legs in case I need them if I decide to hunt the Plains or something. I can't stress enough how great a beginner gun a .30-.30 is. Before you take him hunting, make sure he is very familiar with the gun. Don't EVER give him a gun for the first time in a stand. I put a 4X scope on my .30-.30 with raised mounts so I can still use my iron sights (I shoot better with those anyway). One more thing, make sure he knows how to shoot with the iron sights first. Well, theres my two cents worth. I'm still a teenager, so learning to shoot is fresh in my mind. If you've got any questions, ask away.

Jeff

pball942 · 12-30-2005, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAMES

*subliminal message to follow:......buy the Mosin.......buy the Mosin.....

Looking at some Mosins on the net.

We did go to the Gun store today (My son and I), by the way he is still undecided. He wants to try a .308 as he has never shot one, and a bit shy of the unknown. He did look at a 30-30 and his eye lit up. Of course that happens every time he opens the Winchester catalog.
He wanted to take an AK home with him, but I said no. Learn to shoot your .22 better.
My son is looking forward to this weekend as I was loaned a FAL / L1A1 to try (he really wants to sell me a weapon).
N2914J rest assured by the time my son takes to a blind or stand he will be ready. Marine Corp rifle training is hard to surpass.

Simper Fi

Copper · 12-30-2005, 02:20 AM

If he has shot a 12 ga. with bird loads, it is very similar to what the recoil of a .308 feels like. Have fun with the FAL this weekend!! Be sure to let us know how it turned out.

pball942 · 12-30-2005, 03:16 PM

Will do. I plan to start a thread in the Fal forum look for it there. And if you good cooper maybe I'll put up a pic or two.

twra2b · 12-30-2005, 09:14 PM

i took my first deer with a rmeington model 760 gamemaster in a .270 Win. my whole family has shot deer with it from my grandmother to myself. i have now graduated to a T/C Encore in a 7 Rem. Mag. heavy barrel surprized wiht how little recoil it gave. i had considered a .30-06 heavy barrel from www.midsouthshooterssupply.com but they were sold out i also saw a .308 heavy barrel there which is a good, low recoil caliber with plenty of ammo. If you get the Encore not only does your son have a gun, but you can also have a spare barrel in caliber of your choice to quickly install for the days he must go to school

pball942 · 01-03-2006, 01:02 AM

Well it was a fun weekend. Lots of guns and tons of ammo. The verdict is in. My son would like a .270 for his 1st deer rifle. Now we are looking at which one. But he is smitten with that caliber.

myarmor · 01-03-2006, 01:12 AM

270 is a fine caliber.
Call around and check out some local...wait for it...yes I will say it-Walmarts.
There have been many Winchester Model 70 Black Shadow models on clearance for some excellent prices. I got one for $225, and after 8 shots this thing will put them in 1/2' at 100 with cheap Winchester 130gr Super-X's.
Maybe I just got a good one...well yeah, any out of the box rifle that does 1/2' is a good one...but call around and see.

inuyasha · 01-03-2006, 02:34 AM

personally i was going to go with the .270 but i see thats already been mentioned since the first one i saw mentioned.. good round but play around with different brands of the ammo and see which works better for you... ours likes one brand of ammo, the rest its not that accurate with. its either remington or winchester with nosler partition. not really sure, my dad is the only one whose used it but hes brought a deer down pry nicely with it every time hes had a chance. cant stress enough check the ammo.. his dad showed him a round that you could shoot a piece of paper and itd splatter the bullet on a piece of paper a little ways behind it, it was that touchy of a round.

pball942 · 01-03-2006, 02:40 AM

I hear you on the Model 70 myarmor. Have one myself 7 mm mag, and yes it came from Walmart too. $250.00 5 or 6 years ago. Too good of a price to pass up. As far as the ammo goes I've always had good experince with Winchester Super X in my 70.

myarmor · 01-03-2006, 06:09 AM

Seems most all my rifles shoot Winchester and Federal ammo pretty good.
The Winchester Super-X Silvertips (not the CTBT) shoot great in my 30-06.
Remington ammo, is another story.

Copper · 01-03-2006, 05:00 PM

My Remington 700 ADL in .270 has taken a few "praire goats" in eastern Colorado. It has a nice flat trajectory, and is an excellent choice for shooting at distances in open ground. As far as loadings are concerned, mine seems to like Federal Premium 150 gr. Nosler Partitions. A .270 will put down anything in the lower 48 that you should come across. Good choice.:right:

David0031 · 01-10-2006, 09:37 AM

243, 7mm-08 & 308 are all good choices, the first 2 are basically necked down 308 winchesters. Personally I like the added versiatility of the 7mm-08, lots of bullet weights available, good for varmits, and enough for elk (if ranges isn't too extreme).

They are all also very efficent (use relatively little powder to velocity) comparted to the Magnums that take almost 50% more powder to only get 200-300 fps greater velocity. Savage package guns I think are the best buy out ther $440 will get you shooting. You can always upgrade the scope later.

I'm going 7mm-08 for my next rifle, but if the largest you plan on going is deer the 243 will work, but the little heavier bullet of the 7mm would be better IMO.

And these are short action guns, so the rifle will be shorter and lighter compared to the 270/30-06 long actions.

Happy Shooting
David

12-27-2005, 01:22 AM	#22
pball942 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 256	Just west of 281 and south of 156 is some canyon county. Which can drasticly give you an advantage if you play it right (praying dosen't hurt either). But your 300 yard shot can be halfed and even quartered which is even why I would consider a .243 on our fine bucks. And shot placement is key. For that reason we target shoot at least every other week. But I do here you on in reguards to range. I can't even count the number of time that I've seen deer in the CRP and feed feilds. In reguards to my son, far from timid that is why I stated at the begining of my string I felt confident he could handle a .308, but as I stated it's what my wife likes. But that is the whole reason for this string, there other people out there with ideas that I never would have considerd. Thanks for your input Bounty __________________ Running is not a plan. Running is what you do when your plan fails.

12-29-2005, 11:13 PM	#29
N2914J Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 391	.30-.30 All The Way I personally recommend a .30-.30. It was my first gun, I still have it, and its awsome. Its great for a beginners gun because its got VERY manageable recoil (12 lbs), simple to use, and easy to get comfortable with. Also, it has killed more deer than any other rifle (partly because its been around for so long). My Dad got my Marlin 336 at Wal-Mart for $279.99 I believe. Not a bad buy, and ammo isn't TO bad. I am DEFINITLEY no professional PBALL, but I recommend a .30-.30. I own a .30-.30 and a 7mm Magnum, and thats a dream team if I ever heard of one. .30-.30 for general deer hunting, and a rifle with the legs in case I need them if I decide to hunt the Plains or something. I can't stress enough how great a beginner gun a .30-.30 is. Before you take him hunting, make sure he is very familiar with the gun. Don't EVER give him a gun for the first time in a stand. I put a 4X scope on my .30-.30 with raised mounts so I can still use my iron sights (I shoot better with those anyway). One more thing, make sure he knows how to shoot with the iron sights first. Well, theres my two cents worth. I'm still a teenager, so learning to shoot is fresh in my mind. If you've got any questions, ask away. Jeff __________________ God Bless America

12-30-2005, 03:16 PM	#32
pball942 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 256	Will do. I plan to start a thread in the Fal forum look for it there. And if you good cooper maybe I'll put up a pic or two. __________________ Running is not a plan. Running is what you do when your plan fails.

01-03-2006, 01:02 AM	#34
pball942 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 256	Well it was a fun weekend. Lots of guns and tons of ammo. The verdict is in. My son would like a .270 for his 1st deer rifle. Now we are looking at which one. But he is smitten with that caliber. __________________ Running is not a plan. Running is what you do when your plan fails.

01-03-2006, 02:40 AM	#37
pball942 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 256	I hear you on the Model 70 myarmor. Have one myself 7 mm mag, and yes it came from Walmart too. $250.00 5 or 6 years ago. Too good of a price to pass up. As far as the ammo goes I've always had good experince with Winchester Super X in my 70. __________________ Running is not a plan. Running is what you do when your plan fails.

12-27-2005, 12:44 AM	#21
Bountyhunter Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Territory Posts: 103	Pball, What part of the state do you live and hunt in? How old is the boy, and what is his temperment? I got my first deer rifle when I was ten years old. It was a Remington M742 in .308. That was about 1958. I began shooting coyotes with it, as deer season wasnt open yet, but took the first deer with it in 1961. If you live and hunt in the eastern end of the state and the boy is smaller and timid, then I'd say go with the .243, as it is basically a short range varmit gun, and will suffice for close range shots in the woods. Out where I live, it is mainly carried in the ranch trucks for coyotes. I've seen deer killed with a .243, but they didnt drop where shot, or had large chunks of meat all bloodshot. Most of them took more than one bullet to go down. Not good. If you live west of 81 highway, then I'd say get the boy a .308. I'm from the Hays/Russell area and hunt there every season. The bucks there get over 300 pounds and a .243 just isnt humane, especially when some of the shots on the nice bucks will be at 300 yards or better. Savage has the best trigger, but if the boy has some growing to do yet, then look at the choices in the .308 semi-autos. Remington, Browning, and some others have some nice SA's. I still have my old 742, my wife and daughter both still hunt with it as I moved on to the .30-06. I think the 06 would be way to stiff to start a little guy on, but a .308 auto would do nicely, I started on one at 10. Good luck. Work the little guy up to shooting a deer rifle first, and then see what he migrates to.......I hope that you find the wisdom to avoid the .243 for deer and that he is able to handle the .308. I dont know where you are, but if I were close, I'd bring my rifle and let him try it. Remember, you can load your own shells, and you can load them down a ways until he gets the hang of it. You dont have to go the magnum route first thing...... B

12-27-2005, 10:55 AM	#23
Copper Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Southern "Mizzeruh" Posts: 246	For out in you neck of the woods, I would consider looking at a .270. It shoots pretty flat and the recoil is on the mild side. When considering optics, remember the old saying "you get what you pay for" and this is especially true with optics. Another thing I would recommend for your area is a good bi-pod.

12-27-2005, 12:06 PM	#24
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 5,028	i got to jump in, the only reason a 243 doesnt stop them quickly is because the idiot pulling the trigger did not do his job- it is not the fault of the cartridge. if the bullet is put in the heart, the animal will not go far- if your not capable of putting the bullet in the heart, you should not pull the trigger. i personally prefer the 7mm-08, but the .243 is more than capable of humanely taking deer.

12-27-2005, 08:16 PM	#25
JAMES Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: OKLAHOMA Posts: 575	I've never fired one, but that 7mm-08 sure has some good looking ballistics data. So many great cartridges, so little time and money.... I don't think its right that you Kansans hog all of the big deer......If I ever saw a 300lb deer down here, I'd probably scream and run away! I bet we have bigger skunks than Kansas does, though. That's something to be proud of...

12-28-2005, 04:17 PM	#27
Copper Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Southern "Mizzeruh" Posts: 246	A good ole lever action .30-30 is hard to beat for a first deer rifle. You can pick up a new Winnie 94 or a Marlin for under $300. There is also no shortage of good used ones out there also and they can be had for around $200 -$250. Try looking at the next gun show in your area. I've actually seen some still wrapped up in cosmoline paper at the Tulsa gun show.

12-29-2005, 08:55 PM	#28
JAMES Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: OKLAHOMA Posts: 575	My first "deer rifle" was a Winchester 94 .30-30.....still have it, with its real walnut stock and absence of those extra special, double bubble safety levers, notches, and nick whackers. Now that I think about it, I never shot a thing with it.....I must be a dud. Well, I ain't givin it up anyhow. That 7mm-08 is beginning to sound like a real fine choice for a young man from Kansas, or maybe a 260 Remington....hmmmm...... *subliminal message to follow:......buy the Mosin.......buy the Mosin.....

12-30-2005, 02:20 AM	#31
Copper Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Southern "Mizzeruh" Posts: 246	If he has shot a 12 ga. with bird loads, it is very similar to what the recoil of a .308 feels like. Have fun with the FAL this weekend!! Be sure to let us know how it turned out.

12-30-2005, 09:14 PM	#33
twra2b Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sevierville, Tn Posts: 17	i took my first deer with a rmeington model 760 gamemaster in a .270 Win. my whole family has shot deer with it from my grandmother to myself. i have now graduated to a T/C Encore in a 7 Rem. Mag. heavy barrel surprized wiht how little recoil it gave. i had considered a .30-06 heavy barrel from www.midsouthshooterssupply.com but they were sold out i also saw a .308 heavy barrel there which is a good, low recoil caliber with plenty of ammo. If you get the Encore not only does your son have a gun, but you can also have a spare barrel in caliber of your choice to quickly install for the days he must go to school

01-03-2006, 01:12 AM	#35
myarmor Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Southwest ,VA Posts: 1,147	270 is a fine caliber. Call around and check out some local...wait for it...yes I will say it-Walmarts. There have been many Winchester Model 70 Black Shadow models on clearance for some excellent prices. I got one for $225, and after 8 shots this thing will put them in 1/2' at 100 with cheap Winchester 130gr Super-X's. Maybe I just got a good one...well yeah, any out of the box rifle that does 1/2' is a good one...but call around and see.

01-03-2006, 02:34 AM	#36
inuyasha Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: US occupied territories of "south dakota" Posts: 357	personally i was going to go with the .270 but i see thats already been mentioned since the first one i saw mentioned.. good round but play around with different brands of the ammo and see which works better for you... ours likes one brand of ammo, the rest its not that accurate with. its either remington or winchester with nosler partition. not really sure, my dad is the only one whose used it but hes brought a deer down pry nicely with it every time hes had a chance. cant stress enough check the ammo.. his dad showed him a round that you could shoot a piece of paper and itd splatter the bullet on a piece of paper a little ways behind it, it was that touchy of a round.

01-03-2006, 06:09 AM	#38
myarmor Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Southwest ,VA Posts: 1,147	Seems most all my rifles shoot Winchester and Federal ammo pretty good. The Winchester Super-X Silvertips (not the CTBT) shoot great in my 30-06. Remington ammo, is another story.

01-03-2006, 05:00 PM	#39
Copper Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Southern "Mizzeruh" Posts: 246	My Remington 700 ADL in .270 has taken a few "praire goats" in eastern Colorado. It has a nice flat trajectory, and is an excellent choice for shooting at distances in open ground. As far as loadings are concerned, mine seems to like Federal Premium 150 gr. Nosler Partitions. A .270 will put down anything in the lower 48 that you should come across. Good choice.:right:

01-10-2006, 09:37 AM	#40
David0031 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 7	243, 7mm-08 & 308 are all good choices, the first 2 are basically necked down 308 winchesters. Personally I like the added versiatility of the 7mm-08, lots of bullet weights available, good for varmits, and enough for elk (if ranges isn't too extreme). They are all also very efficent (use relatively little powder to velocity) comparted to the Magnums that take almost 50% more powder to only get 200-300 fps greater velocity. Savage package guns I think are the best buy out ther $440 will get you shooting. You can always upgrade the scope later. I'm going 7mm-08 for my next rifle, but if the largest you plan on going is deer the 243 will work, but the little heavier bullet of the 7mm would be better IMO. And these are short action guns, so the rifle will be shorter and lighter compared to the 270/30-06 long actions. Happy Shooting David Last edited by David0031; 01-10-2006 at 09:39 AM.