Since 1984

[Phil Lozano]

Originally Posted by SwedeSteve

Phil- On my other question, more specifically; who gets the meat? You or who?

The client pays the trophy fee, so the meat belongs to him/her. H/shee can choose to do with it as they like.

Mostly it is donated out our kitchen and staff. Everyone in the camp dines on it and what is not consumed is dried and the staff take home at the end of the season.

The meat does belong to the client, but they more than likely cannot take it home. Generally, a countries Customs Department have some regulations not allowing import of game meat from Africa.

Best,
Phil
_________________________________
Stay out of sight and down wind
Professional Hunter ~ Tanzania

[SwedeSteve]

Got it! I knew it probably wouldn't go with the client. Glad to hear it is eaten though and not wasted. Do you remember if the clients with the 9,3x64 were European?

[Phil Lozano]

So, . . . . . . . . . . Ron,

Are you going to direct some answers to these inquiries, or are you going to continue to pretend that the questions were never put to you ?

Originally Posted by Phil Lozano

Ron AKA,

Did you have a view at the photos in the link ?

How do you explain those results ?

How many head of Dangerous Game have you shot with a 270 ?

Best,
Phil
_________________________________
Stay out of sight and down wind
Professional Hunter ~ Tanzania

[.280Rem]

Phil,

You listed what you've seen. What do you recommend? Say you had a client coming that had a package that included everything from small to larger plains game (Impala up through Zebra maybe) and Cape Buff, and they wanted to come with a 2 gun battery. What would you recommend assuming they had the gun skills to handle what you recommended?

Originally Posted by Phil Lozano

So, . . . . . . . . . . Ron,

Are you going to direct some answers to these inquiries, or are you going to continue to pretend that the questions were never put to you ?



Best,
Phil
_________________________________
Stay out of sight and down wind
Professional Hunter ~ Tanzania

Phil, I can't seem to find the photo links you're writing about. What's the question?

[Phil Lozano]

Originally Posted by SwedeSteve

Do you remember if the clients with the 9,3x64 were European?

Yes they were. The 9.3x64 is more or less the same as a 375 H&H. For plains game, in a scoped rifle, it is OK.

Originally Posted by .280Rem

Phil,

You listed what you've seen. What do you recommend? Say you had a client coming that had a package that included everything from small to larger plains game (Impala up through Zebra maybe) and Cape Buff, and they wanted to come with a 2 gun battery. What would you recommend assuming they had the gun skills to handle what you recommended?

When the clients ask me what to cartridges they should bring for a safari that will cover plains game as well as dangerous game, I suggest a 338 Winnie or a 358 Norma (250 grain bullets in both please) and a 416 of any flavor (Rigby, Rem., Taylor etc..). Then you are ready for anything.

Best,
Phil
______________________________
Stay out of sight and down wind
Professional Hunter ~ Tanzania

[perdidochas]

Originally Posted by SwedeSteve

ROFL 280! She's a much better judge of game than her husband! A 74 lb Elephant! Was it a Pigmy Elephant? I know it was just a typo, but I shot coffee out my nose when I read it, and I'm still laughing...

Phil- On my other question, more specifically; who gets the meat? You or who?

IIRC, a 74 lb elephant refers to the weight of the ivory.

[Ron AKA]

Ron AKA,
How many head of DG have you shot with a 270 ?

I don't trophy hunt so I don't see ever hunting for dangerous game. I have come face to face with two grizzly bears standing between me and my camp, with no other feasable trail back as it was gettin dark. I held them the crosshairs for quite some time, and then decided to walk toward them to see what would happen. Fortunately they backed down and got off the trail. My concern was not the caliber of the gun, but the fact that there were two of them and I only had 4 shots. I don't have a 270, but own a couple of .264WM. Not much different than a 270. Sorry, not a believer in the need for big bore heavy bullets, for reasonable size game.

Regards,

Ron

Originally Posted by SwedeSteve

RonAKA- As far as I know, I am still in NA, and we hunt Bison here!

Interesting. I did not know that. I thought they were still trying to get some reasonable population back up in the wild, and Canada was providing the US with stock. There are quite a few up here that are ranched and meat sold mainly to restaurants. I like it, but in general a little tougher than good beef.

Ron

[Phil Lozano]

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

Ron AKA,
How many head of DG have you shot with a 270 ?

I have come face to face with two grizzly bears standing between me and my camp, with no other feasable trail back as it was gettin dark. I held them the crosshairs for quite some time, and then decided to walk toward them to see what would happen. Fortunately they backed down and got off the trail. My concern was not the caliber of the gun, but the fact that there were two of them and I only had 4 shots. I don't have a 270, but own a couple of .264WM. Not much different than a 270. Sorry, not a believer in the need for big bore heavy bullets, for reasonable size game.

Regards,

Ron

Ron

So, by your own admission, you have never faced a charge, nor had to stop one. Interesting.

So, with no experience, and as you put it

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

not a believer in the need for big bore heavy bullets, for reasonable size game

, but believe the 270 and or 264 is adequate dangerous game like Buffalo.

True enough, of you brain 'em, you can put a Buff down in a charge.

Well, I must give you this, you got a "set" Bwana, you won't have them long should you go Buffalo hunting with a 270, . . . . . . . but you got a set of stones man.


You still failed to explain how the Buffalo in the photo link was able to go 80 yards before laying down after taking 20,000 ft.lbs. of energy.

Maybe it was bad shot placement or bad shooting by the client ?

[Ron AKA]

All this talk about big game in Africa. You should see the gophers we have in Canada. For those we need a big bore!



Ron

[Phil Lozano]

Figures, you have no answers (but huge stones, . . . dude, . . . . huge stones).

All theory, and no practical experience.

Best,
Phil
_______________________________
Stay out of sight and down wind
Professional Hunter ~ Tanzania

[Nathan123]

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

As far as lions go, they are just big cats. Put a lion beside a moose and tell me you need a bigger gun for the lion...Ron

HAHAHA that cracks me up.

That comment reminds me of this video

YouTube - RAW AND UNCUT... Lion Charge from...

I bet if he only had a .270 the outcome would have been very different indeed.

Like i said earlier it has to be able to do the job when everything goes wrong.

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

Ron AKA,
Sorry, not a believer in the need for big bore heavy bullets, for reasonable size game.

Buffalo are reasonable size game? With a shoulder joint as wide as my chest?

The next time i shoot a Buffalo i will take some detailed pictures for you to show you what we are on about. There is a whole lot of muscle and big thick heavy bone to punch through to reach the vitals, and then when you reach the vitals there is a very strong likeleyhood that he will not just fall over stone dead. Alot of people have been killed or stomped and gored by a "dead" buffalo. And to be honest, if you shoot a buffalo with a .270 2 things will happen. 1.You are not going to reach his vitals and 2. He will not be very happy with you afterwards.

I have seen pictures of a Landcruiser that was hit by a buffalo (it was stopped at the time) The bloke that just shot at this buffalo just made it over the hood of the vehicle when it hit. The passenger side door and windscreen and pillar was pushed in to the drivers side shoulder.

[.280Rem]

Originally Posted by Nathan123

HAHAHA that cracks me up.

That comment reminds me of this video

YouTube - RAW AND UNCUT... Lion Charge from Dangerous Game on VERSUS

I bet if he only had a .270 the outcome would have been very different indeed.

Like i said earlier it has to be able to do the job when everything goes wrong.



Buffalo are reasonable size game? With a shoulder joint as wide as my chest?

The next time i shoot a Buffalo i will take some detailed pictures for you to show you what we are on about. There is a whole lot of muscle and big thick heavy bone to punch through to reach the vitals, and then when you reach the vitals there is a very strong likeleyhood that he will not just fall over stone dead. Alot of people have been killed or stomped and gored by a "dead" buffalo. And to be honest, if you shoot a buffalo with a .270 2 things will happen. 1.You are not going to reach his vitals and 2. He will not be very happy with you afterwards.

I have seen pictures of a Landcruiser that was hit by a buffalo (it was stopped at the time) The bloke that just shot at this buffalo just made it over the hood of the vehicle when it hit. The passenger side door and windscreen and pillar was pushed in to the drivers side shoulder.

DUDE! The hunter in that video has a set of stones! And had enough gun too!

It's not that a Buff can't be taken with a .270...it certainly can...with perfect circumstances, the right bullet, perfect shot placement and some luck too. Afterall, I know a lady that took one with a lung shot using a 7x57. The bull did run a bit before going down, and had it charged in stead of running...well...back up would have been used.

[turner]

Originally Posted by Nathan123

HAHAHA that cracks me up.

That comment reminds me of this video

YouTube - RAW AND UNCUT... Lion Charge from Dangerous Game on VERSUS

I bet if he only had a .270 the outcome would have been very different indeed.

Like i said earlier it has to be able to do the job when everything goes wrong.



Buffalo are reasonable size game? With a shoulder joint as wide as my chest?

The next time i shoot a Buffalo i will take some detailed pictures for you to show you what we are on about. There is a whole lot of muscle and big thick heavy bone to punch through to reach the vitals, and then when you reach the vitals there is a very strong likeleyhood that he will not just fall over stone dead. Alot of people have been killed or stomped and gored by a "dead" buffalo. And to be honest, if you shoot a buffalo with a .270 2 things will happen. 1.You are not going to reach his vitals and 2. He will not be very happy with you afterwards.

I have seen pictures of a Landcruiser that was hit by a buffalo (it was stopped at the time) The bloke that just shot at this buffalo just made it over the hood of the vehicle when it hit. The passenger side door and windscreen and pillar was pushed in to the drivers side shoulder.

VERY kool video, thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by Phil Lozano

FYI ~

If you are interested in what cartridges I have seen in Africa for plains game.


Since 1984, the plains game cartridges I have seen -


2 - 270's (Winnie)

20+ - 7mm Mag.'s (Rem, STW, Wby.)

40+ - 300 Mag.'s (Winnie, H&H and Wby).

3 - 8mm Mag.'s (Rem.)

1 - 338 '06

To many to count - 338 Mag.'s (Winnie, Ultra and Wby.)

6 - 35 Whelen's

18 - 358 Norma Mag.'s

4 - 9.3x62's

3 - 9.3x64's

To many to count - 375 Mag.'s (H&H and Wby.)

1 - 416 Mag.

1 - 458 Win. Mag.

1 - 458 Lott


Clients have brought these cartridges to shoot animals from Dik-Dik to Eland.

With few exceptions, these hunters are experienced hunters with more than a few hunts under their belts. They tend to bring cartridges that have a proven history.

Additionally, they do not come with ammo loaded with light bullets. The majority of them come with 'heavy for caliber' premium bullets, with the exception of the 300 Mag. guys. It's about a 50 - 50 split (180 grain and 200 grain bullets).

Anyone see a trend here ?

Velocity is 1 thing, bullet weight and diameter are other items to consider. Better to have all for all big game hunting.


Best,
Phil
____________________________
Stay out of sight and down wind
Professional Hunter ~ Tanzania

With all the posts here about what is a suitable cartridge for Elk, I posted the above to give you some idea of what others use on Elk sized critters.

A noted writer and hunter (CB) says the .30 cal. is his minimum for Elk.
It is not just me that thinks bigger is better.




Best,
Phil
______________________________
Stay out of sight and down wind
Professional Hunter ~ Tanzania

Phil,
I recently read a very interesting article about the tendency of calibers for clients on African safari. It seems that over the last 20 yrs or so, a significantly higher percentage have moved from the popular 7MMmag to .30 caliber and above for light or plains game. This was true in both a chosen 2 gun and 3 gun safari. Have you noticed any similar trend(s)? Thanks.

[AKHunter]

Damn ! It doesnt get any closer that. I hope that fellow had an extra pair of shorts with him.

[turner]

Originally Posted by AKHunter

Damn ! It doesnt get any closer that. I hope that fellow had an extra pair of shorts with him.

I'm still trying to figure which was closer....His getting shot, or them not shooting well enough and his getting mauled!

[SwedeSteve]

Hey guys- Do us all a favor, and quit quoting the whole message when you reply. That way these old eyes won't have to scroll through a half page to read your one line comment !!!! PLEASE?

[Magnumsrule]

I saw another vid where the guys shot a lion but did not put it down. The thing just loked through the grass to see where the shot came from then charged them. When it pounced on the hunter the jaws missed b y inches. They then shot it. Too close though, they showd it in slow mo. I dont see any reason why a 7mm mag would not be capeable of taking most of the plains game. I do agree that the buffalo would need a larger cal. My dad shot a bison in between the eyes for a farmer.... The thing blinked spat out some blood then turned broadside for a second shot. Cal 280 rem. 160 grain remington extended range. Probobly the best 280 load ever made.

[Nathan123]

Originally Posted by .280Rem

DUDE! The hunter in that video has a set of stones! And had enough gun too!

It's not that a Buff can't be taken with a .270...it certainly can...with perfect circumstances, the right bullet, perfect shot placement and some luck too. Afterall, I know a lady that took one with a lung shot using a 7x57. The bull did run a bit before going down, and had it charged in stead of running...well...back up would have been used.

Not saying it can't be done, but what i am saying is what you just said. When everything goes right i am sure you could kill a buffalo with a .270. BUT, if 1 thing is off even just a little (and how often does everything go 100% to plan?). There is no way in the world you are going to kill him, then you have a wounded and very angry animal that wants to kill you.

Phil's pictures that he posted are a perfect example, they are very tough animals (and that was dam fine shooting i might add) he took all that punishment and could still muster up the strength to run off.

[Phil Lozano]

Originally Posted by turner

VERY kool video, thanks for sharing.



Phil,
I recently read a very interesting article about the tendency of calibers for clients on African safari. It seems that over the last 20 yrs or so, a significantly higher percentage have moved from the popular 7MMmag to .30 caliber and above for light or plains game. This was true in both a chosen 2 gun and 3 gun safari. Have you noticed any similar trend(s)? Thanks.

My clients have always brought larger cartridges/calibers. The intermingling of the 2- 270's and 7 Mag.'s were mixed in to the group.

The majority of my clients have always predominately brought 30 Cal.+ cartridges with heavy for caliber bullets.

They (as I have ) determined diameter counts !

Small caliber/cartridges are fine if everything goes correct. But as has been said, how many hunts have you been on that everything goes 100% correct ?

Best,
Phil
______________________________
Stay out of sight and down wind
Professional Hunter ~ Tanzania

Nathan123,

That video you posted was of some P.H.'s following up a wounded Lion, I think in Zimbabwe, but do not remember for sure.

Thanks for posting it. Maybe some people will get the idea, that is sometimes in not enough to hit him, you have to hit him with something that will get his attention, e.g., stopping the charge. And that will not be a 300 Mag. or smaller.


Best,
Phil
______________________________
Stay out of sight and down wind
Professional Hunter ~ Tanzania

[Phil Lozano]

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

Ron AKA,
not a believer in the need for big bore heavy bullets, for reasonable size game.

Regards,

Ron

After the statement above, how do you explain this post from my forum regarding Buffalo, Mr. Ron AKA ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Having my cape buffalo square off at 20 yards after abosrbing 4 rounds from my .375 H&H and 2 rounds from the PH's .416 Rigby, I am one that needs no convincing that cape buffalo are tough.

I was lucky in that he turned and ran broadside so I could close the bolt and pump 1 more round into him. From where he squared off to where he dropped it was about 35 yards.

OK, Bwana, give me your insight.

We are all waiting.

Best,
Phil
______________________________
Stay out of sight and down wind
Professional Hunter ~ Tanzania