What Game/Range is a cartridge good for?

[Ron AKA]

This forum gets a lot of discussion on what it takes for deer, elk, moose, and other NA game similar in size to those. I came across this site, which is kind of interesting as it gives some basic data on each cartridge, and at the end a bit of a graph as to what distance the cartridge is suitable for, the various sizes of game. I had a look through it, and with a few exceptions it seems reasonable. It is interesting to note that they consider moose and brown bear in the same category, and elk a step down from that between moose and deer. That's about where I would place it too. Here are the results for some of the cartridges that get discuss from time to time. Unfortunately they did not have some of the newer ones, and on some the data was incomplete (270WSM for example).

Rifles / Centerfire Rifle Cartridges / Ballistics

The game groups were:

Deer (Antelope, Whitetail, Blacktail, Mule, Hogs)
Elk (Caribou, Black Bear, Sheep)
Moose (Brown Bear)

Cartridge, Deer, Elk, Moose
300 WM, 500, 500, 400
325 WSM, 500, 400, 400
7mmRM, 500, 400, 300
264 WM, 500, 300, 200
30-06, 400, 200, 100
270 Win, 400, 200, 100
280 Rem, 400, 200, 100
308 Win, 400, 200, 100
260 Rem, 400, 200, 100
45-70, 250, 150, 100
25-06, 400, 200, --

243 Win, 300, --, --
30-30, 100, --, --

I sorted based on moose range, and if tied then elk, then deer. If still tied I sorted based on energy at the moose range.

I find it intersting to note that the old buffalo gun, the 45-70 came in at 100 yards for moose. Further I believe the original version was black powder and shot at significantly reduced presures as to what is available today in smokeless centerfire cartridges. Interesting how the modern cartridges compare to the old buffalo gun.

Comments?

Ron

[.280Rem]

That's pretty well just a load of.....somebody's made up BS! Opinion based solely in opinion. I wouldn't hesitate to take a 300+ yard shot on an elk or moose with a 30-06, 270, or 280. I bet there's a lot of dead elk and moose that fell to a 30-30 as well. I've heard of a guide in the CO that carries a .243 for elk, and have heard of a few being taken with 25-06s.

[Ron AKA]

Originally Posted by .280Rem

That's pretty well just a load of.....somebody's made up BS! Opinion based solely in opinion. I wouldn't hesitate to take a 300+ yard shot on an elk or moose with a 30-06, 270, or 280. I bet there's a lot of dead elk and moose that fell to a 30-30 as well. I've heard of a guide in the CO that carries a .243 for elk, and have heard of a few being taken with 25-06s.

They did give the 25-06 credit for up to 200 yards on elk...

Ron

[vikingpreacher]

I'm surprised they including the 25-06 and not the 30-30 for Elk.

[Lng Rng]

What it usually boils down to is not the effective range of the cartridge, but the effective range of the guy behind the rifle. The 300 WSM could kill a deer at 500 yards, and probably even further. But most people have no business shooting at animals at that distance. I personally wouldnt use some of the listed cartridges that they gave the green light for elk either, but that is my opinion.

[Magnumsrule]

Yeah the chart seems fairly reasonable. Tying the 30-06 with a 270 is streatching the truth a bit. Or taking an elk at 500 yards even with a 300 win mag as i would think elk should be rated as "harder to kill" than moose. That has been my experience anyways. In my neck of the would i would not dream of someone using a 243, 30-30, or 25-06 for elk. Too small a bullet, not enough foot pounds. A 243 only has about 2000 foot pounds out of the muzzle! That would be about the same amount of energy a 300 win has at 400 yards!

[Purdy]

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

I find it intersting to note that the old buffalo gun, the 45-70 came in at 100 yards for moose. Further I believe the original version was black powder and shot at significantly reduced presures as to what is available today in smokeless centerfire cartridges. Interesting how the modern cartridges compare to the old buffalo gun.

Comments?

Ron

Nope, the factory 45-70's are just about what you get with black powder. There are still lots of old guns who's design won't stand higher pressures.
Reloading manuals give loads for the old designs and then higher pressure loads for specific modern arms. (eg. Ruger #s 1 &3)

[toolman]

Lumping deer and hogs into the same group is a bit off as well. Anyone who's hunted hogs(at least the bigger ones), will tell you that they are a heck of a lot harder to drop than your average whitetail.

[ArkansasHunter]

The way I look at it is some are better calibers to use, but they'll all get the job done on the game listed.
Though unethical, even a 22 rim fire would work if "conditions" were right.

[sell33]

Good site thanks....

[AKHunter]

I find it interesting that the .325wsm is listed while the .338wm is not. Also, sheep listed with elk ? Sheep should be in the deer catagory.
Hogs should be listed next to black bear.
As for the .30-06 good for moose only at 100 yards, puuullleeese ! And that goes for the .280 and .308 and .7mmRM, I would'nt hesitate to shoot a moose at 300 yards with any of those cartridges.

That chart is a load of hooey

[Ron AKA]

>I find it interesting that the .325wsm is listed while the .338wm is not.
Actually a lot not listed. Can't see a pattern to it.

>Also, sheep listed with elk ? Sheep should be in the deer catagory.
I would agree

>Hogs should be listed next to black bear.
Not a lot of experince, but deer looked right to me.

>As for the .30-06 good for moose only at 100 yards, puuullleeese !
I thought that group should have been split after the 30-06, 270, and 280. I think they are notch up from the 260 and 308. Yep, I would pull the trigger at 200 with any of the first three on moose.

>And that goes for the .280 and .308 and .7mmRM, I would'nt hesitate to
>shoot a moose at 300 yards with any of those cartridges.
They did give the 7mmRM credit for 300 on moose. I think the 280 is probably ok, and the 308 quite marginal. I would question my pulling the trigger at 300 with my .264 on moose. With a rest and assured I could hit what I was aiming at -- perhaps.

Ron

[thebigitch62]

I have seen this before the numbers are based on the energy at a given distance. then what somebody (who this is I don't know) has decided is required for a humane kill.

[Magnumsrule]

I dont know about you guys but when i look at a balistics chart i basically say for a good humane kill without having to split hairs i usually look for this amount of energy. Again this is just looking at cartridges and what i think would be a good measure. 1000 foot pounds for deer, 1500 for moose, and between 1500-2000 for elk. Again i know it could be done with less, and certainly more but do you really want an elk running miles?

[big boomer]

What the "pro's" claim and what works are two different things. For years my grandfather took dear with a 32-20 before some one decided it was too small. All the one shot kills did not know it was too small. He was also known to shoot birds out of the air with a 22 but the pro's say you need a 12 or 20 to hit one. I also find it hard to judge cartridges when some have only one or two bullet weights and some like the 30-06 or 308 have so many different ones.

[Magnumsrule]

Yeah but the ones with 1 or 2 bullet weights usually preform well. The various 308 bullets out there are mostly for expeirimentation. How many people actually switch the weight and load of the bullet they use when hunting different game? Load up the best one and use it. Where i live if you are hunting deer, there is usually an elk tag kicking around as well.

[Nathan123]

Hey Ron AKA, I thought i was gunna open this thread and see .222 good for moose. If a .270 is good for buffalo surely you dont need a big rifle like a .264 for a little old moose?

[SwedeSteve]

LOL Nathan. I think the chart is nothing more than a hasty generalization at best! Especially in the way the game is categorized.
Magnum- The different weights are for experimentation, to develops different loads. I have 3 different loads in each of 3 different rifles so I can choose the best cartridge for the game/distances to be encountered. Two are scoped and zeroed for PBR in the lightest bullet. One is not scoped but I know the holdover.