All-Around Dangerous Game Cartridge

[CroMagnum]

I was responding to Midas' post, he didn't clarify which country either and left it as a broad generalization of the whole continent so that's why I asked the question. You should ask Midas the same question you just asked me.

[Midas]

Originally Posted by CroMagnum

Including big brown bears? If it's illegal to use in Africa then why are people still using it?

Yes, all of the big bear species, except polar bears! they are a lot different than thick skinned African game. Maybe I should be more specific, I have yet to see a country where it meets the energy requirements, nor have I spoken to any PH's who would recommend using it. If you can find a PH who will let you use it, go ahead and use it. But I think calling it an adequate African DG cartridge, based on a stunt that was done to promote the use of Garrett's ammo, is a bit of a stretch. Don't forget that Roy Weatherby took the Big 5 with his .257 Weatherby cartridge

[carbine100]

460 Weatherby

[andrew cochran]

Since I live in north America and I'm not goin to Africa. A 45-70 would do fine.

[HEMI]

For many of us an African or Alaska hunt would be a hunt of a lifetime, why would you not make the investment in a proper rifle and caliber. A freind hunted cape buffalo years ago he hit a bull at @ 50 yards with a 458 square on the shoulder, the bull looked at the hunter with a stare that will be imprinted on his mind forever, if the bull wasn't ancored he had no doubts of what its intenions were, he said his 458 felt like a 22 at that point.3 more shots put it down.

His next Africa gun was a 505 gibbs if they made a 805 he would have bought it.
Because of health reasons he never again made it to Africa again,but that hunt was an investment in personal growth,a lifelong dream, you will get a 1000% return on everything you put into it, so take your 375 if you want but your ph will most likely kill your bull for you.

If I get the chance to go to Africa I know what i'll be taking a very special 505 that was bought after a valuable life leason.

[Phil Lozano]

Originally Posted by HEMI

For many of us an African or Alaska hunt would be a hunt of a lifetime, why would you not make the investment in a proper rifle and caliber. A freind hunted cape buffalo years ago he hit a bull at @ 50 yards with a 458 square on the shoulder, the bull looked at the hunter with a stare that will be imprinted on his mind forever, if the bull wasn't ancored he had no doubts of what its intenions were, he said his 458 felt like a 22 at that point.3 more shots put it down.

His next Africa gun was a 505 gibbs if they made a 805 he would have bought it.
Because of health reasons he never again made it to Africa again,but that hunt was an investment in personal growth,a lifelong dream, you will get a 1000% return on everything you put into it, so take your 375 if you want but your ph will most likely kill your bull for you.

If I get the chance to go to Africa I know what i'll be taking a very special 505 that was bought after a valuable life leason.

Nicely said.

[mtm1]

For strictly DG, my .416 CRF Mod. 70 should be just fine. Obviously if I hunted Africa regularly I'd opt for something with more frontal area for DG. My 400 gr. load does 2440 fps and is very accurate. For African DG a 500 doing similar would probably be preferable.

[Midas]

Now that I think about it, the .416's are very fine all around DG cartridges, they can reach out to 200 yards or more, and pack a mighty punch up close!

[Phil Lozano]

Originally Posted by mtm1

For strictly DG, my .416 CRF Mod. 70 should be just fine. Obviously if I hunted Africa regularly I'd opt for something with more frontal area for DG. My 400 gr. load does 2440 fps and is very accurate. For African DG a 500 doing similar would probably be preferable.

Originally Posted by Midas

Now that I think about it, the .416's are very fine all around DG cartridges, they can reach out to 200 yards or more, and pack a mighty punch up close!

[Midas]

Originally Posted by Phil Lozano

See Phil, not all of us are loonies here

[Phil Lozano]

Originally Posted by Midas

See Phil, not all of us are loonies here

Pretty funny !

[samuel]

Originally Posted by Midas

See Phil, not all of us are loonies here

I am every sinse I took up shooting/hunting,which was when I was 8yrs old,60yrs ago.Phil,what are your thoughts on the old saying,supposedly by guides,that they would rather have a client armed with a smaller cartridge they can shoot well than a big boomer they can't handle.My experience in this field isn't as a guide,but as an advisor to friends that I was going hunting with.We were going after game that are hard to stop moreso than dangerous.Of course being hard to stop is what makes game dangerous.I never considered game dangerous when first shot even when they didn't stop as long as you werent between where they were and where they wanted to go.And even then they would pass by you if you stayed still.Going after wounded is dangerous and makes my hair stand up thinking back on hunts where I had to do it.Back to what I asked about,some hunters just don't handle recoil well and some don't have time to spare to condition themselves to heavy recoil.A guide wouldn't want to pass up the money as that is why they are in business,so what would you do,tell them to carry what they can handle or take the chance and over gun them?I have went hunting several times with hunters carrying what I considered light for the job firearms and if they were good with them,they did ok.I have also been out with hunters that carried a cal/cartridge they were afraid of and they didn't do too good,usually requiring me to stop their game or go after it in brush.You may not believe it but a large moose with a wide set of antlers can hide behind a bush and ambush you.And when they charge from a few feet away they are as dangerous as game gets.Usually they keep moving away from you but once in a great while they decide to eleminate you personally.I still think a hunter is better off with a gun he can handle. sam.

[Phil Lozano]

Sam,

I agree, a bullet placed in the right spot is better than a bullet in the leg.

However, a well placed bullet does not make up for inadequate power. If some people cannot shoot larger, adequate cartridges, then they should hunt animals that will easily succumb to the power level of their cartridge.

Ethically (and to protect our sport), we must kill the animals we hunt in the quickest, most humane way possible. If we do not demand this of the people in our sport, the Anti's will use it against us. One video of an animal running off that is repeated shot, or an animal suffering needlessly, will go along way in getting people's sympathetic vote.

Dealing with recoil is just a matter of practicing enough. If you cannot practice enough, perhaps you should not be going after larger, more dangerous game.

Just because you bought an "Indy Car", does not mean you can drive it properly and be competitive enough to win with out practicing, no matter how much you really want to win !. As with anything else, you are only good at what you practice.

I have refused to take people after dangerous game, for many different reasons. If you are a P.H. and you take someone after a dangerous animal or an animal that you know will require multiple shots to kill, due to the cartridge being used, then I have questions about that P.H.'s ethics.

JMO

[Burningtree_83]

.375 H&h will most likely do the trick. When I was a kid in AK and working in AK as a grown man in AK for the forest circus later in life countless people packed a .375. including the government stooges.

[Russel]

Sadly I am no longer in Africa. Being fortunate to have spent allmost all of my life in Africa and in some of the more rural areas as well as comming into contact with many of the old Hunters/Farmers and Ranchers, added to my own experiance The 375 H&H wins hands down, because of the avalability of ammo etc. However in the last 15years I have used a 9.3x62 and variouse metric calibers. I settled for the 6.5x55 mauser as my main culling rifle, this is an amasingly satisfying cartrige to use on allmost all plains game up to Kudoo cows and provided you know what you are doing and do it well Kudoo bulls. For bigger game I have used the 9.3 with dual diamiter mono metal solids with a sharp shoulder at the change of diamiter.Very efective. If I had a wish list caliber it would be for the 425Westly Richards. As for the 460 Weatherby thank you but no thank you.I still have flinchitis from a 378 and have no wish to destroy what little self respect I have left re; recoil tollerance. Dont believe any one who tells you you wont notice it in the field. True you wont but you will still flinch. Not a good idea when something has a grudge debt to collect and you are that debt.

P.S Freedom is not free it is paid for in blood

[meatloaf]

.50 bmg

"If you are going to take the life of a noble animal . . . . . . . . . . . . . you should feel the pain as well" Amen

[Nathan123]

I love .375 H&H it is my favourite cartridge. But since we are talking ALL dangerous game favourites dont mean much. If i wanted a cal to use for ALL dangerous game the .458 Lott gets my vote.

[HATCHETT JACK]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

Since at my age I probably won't get out of the U.S. I feel that a 45-70 lever action should take care of anything I may find here if I do my part.

not to mention the 45-70 in marlin has killed the big six in africa, using randy garretts ammo

[Midas]

Originally Posted by HATCHETT JACK

not to mention the 45-70 in marlin has killed the big six in africa, using randy garretts ammo

Did he manage to stop any charges with it?

[HATCHETT JACK]

Originally Posted by Midas

Did he manage to stop any charges with it?

he dropped a charging lion... vince lupo is his name you can google him for the whole story