Don't dis conspiracy "nuts" as paranoid
Posted 08-05-2008 at 09:24 AM by DWFan
For those who dismiss "paranoid conspiracy nuts", I'll give you three names and a paraphrase of their own words:
Lyndon B. Johnson: Our purpose is to halt the spread of communism and insure the survival of the democractic government of South Vietnam.
Never mind that South Vietnam NEVER had a democratic government, but a series of military regimes. How many died in the service to our country for that political mistake? How many of those that died didn't even have the right to vote? This is the man who also almost single-handedly got the Gun Control Act of 1968 passed by bring political pressure to bear on congressmen and senators.
Richard M. Nixon: I am not a crook. I have not violated the oath of office of President of the United States.
Never mind that if he didn't order the break-in at the Watergate hotel, he was instrumental in the cover-up that followed including suppression of witnesses and elimination of evidence. He also lied about our military involvement in Laos and Cambodia in the early 70's. In fact, at least one of his closest friends and advisors was known to have connections with organized crime.
George Bush Jr.: We must curtail the threat that Saddam Hussein poses with his stockpile of weapons of mass destruction and his connection to terroist organizations.
How many of our soldiers have died for chemical and nuclear weapons that didn't exist and in deposing a ruler who realistically was no threat at all except to his own people? Is it just coincidence that Dick Cheney was the CEO of Haliburton before becoming Vice President and Haliburton recieved, by far, the largest amount of no bid contracts during the Iraq War?
How about something else? The Mayaguez and the battle at Koh Tang. Never heard of it? I'm not surprised. Air Force Security Police were killed when their responding helicopter was shot out of the sky, but the govt. called it a "rotor malfunction". During that mission, when it was determined by the on-site Marine commander that additional support was needed at Koh Tang, the military commanders and administation people in Washington determined they weren't necessary until almost too late. Marines were left to die on the island, and the government denied this until 1999 when an independent investigation proved otherwise. Their families weren't even told until then. To this day, the US Marines lists those men as missing but denies they were left behind.
Add that to Kent State, Waco, Ruby Ridge, the aftermath of Katrina and countless other confirmed instances where the government has suppressed the truth or outright lied, violated civil rights and covered up evidence.
Some folks feel they have every right to be paranoid.
Lyndon B. Johnson: Our purpose is to halt the spread of communism and insure the survival of the democractic government of South Vietnam.
Never mind that South Vietnam NEVER had a democratic government, but a series of military regimes. How many died in the service to our country for that political mistake? How many of those that died didn't even have the right to vote? This is the man who also almost single-handedly got the Gun Control Act of 1968 passed by bring political pressure to bear on congressmen and senators.
Richard M. Nixon: I am not a crook. I have not violated the oath of office of President of the United States.
Never mind that if he didn't order the break-in at the Watergate hotel, he was instrumental in the cover-up that followed including suppression of witnesses and elimination of evidence. He also lied about our military involvement in Laos and Cambodia in the early 70's. In fact, at least one of his closest friends and advisors was known to have connections with organized crime.
George Bush Jr.: We must curtail the threat that Saddam Hussein poses with his stockpile of weapons of mass destruction and his connection to terroist organizations.
How many of our soldiers have died for chemical and nuclear weapons that didn't exist and in deposing a ruler who realistically was no threat at all except to his own people? Is it just coincidence that Dick Cheney was the CEO of Haliburton before becoming Vice President and Haliburton recieved, by far, the largest amount of no bid contracts during the Iraq War?
How about something else? The Mayaguez and the battle at Koh Tang. Never heard of it? I'm not surprised. Air Force Security Police were killed when their responding helicopter was shot out of the sky, but the govt. called it a "rotor malfunction". During that mission, when it was determined by the on-site Marine commander that additional support was needed at Koh Tang, the military commanders and administation people in Washington determined they weren't necessary until almost too late. Marines were left to die on the island, and the government denied this until 1999 when an independent investigation proved otherwise. Their families weren't even told until then. To this day, the US Marines lists those men as missing but denies they were left behind.
Add that to Kent State, Waco, Ruby Ridge, the aftermath of Katrina and countless other confirmed instances where the government has suppressed the truth or outright lied, violated civil rights and covered up evidence.
Some folks feel they have every right to be paranoid.
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Comments
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Being aware is one thing. Chronic inflexible paranoid ideology is another.Posted 08-05-2008 at 11:53 AM by TexasT
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"George Bush Jr.: We must curtail the threat that Saddam Hussein poses with his stockpile of weapons of mass destruction and his connection to terroist organizations..."
Dude, really? Are we going to have to go there?
Nevermind that since 1991 we were spending millions and millions of dollars deploying to Saudi and Kuwait for Operations Northern and Southern Watch, trying to keep him from killing his own people, trying to keep him out of Kuwait, not to mention the dozen or more times he fired on U.S. and Allied planes patrollinig the no-fly zone with anti-aircraft emplacements. (That means the Air Force, and sister services has been in combat in Iraq non-stop since 1991, 17 YEARS!) Nevermind that he again and again and again refused to allow inspectors into the country to ENSURE he didn't have weapons of mass destruction. I mean what were we supposed to do, take his word for it? We were wrong, I will admit that, but what other choice did we have? Wait until another 9/11 happened, or a similar attack where the weapons could have been traced back to Iraq? Then everyone would be saying, "We should have gone in when we had the chance, but Bush didn't go so it is all his fault."
It was a risk, we took it, we were wrong about the weapons, but now a country who has known all of 5 years of true democracy since its exsistence now has a shot at it for a long, long time.
"How many of our soldiers have died for chemical and nuclear weapons that didn't exist and in deposing a ruler who realistically was no threat at all except to his own people?"
What exactly makes them less of a person than you or I? Because they are Arab? Because they believe in a different God?
I think EVERYONE would be singing a different tune if it was, say, Spain or Germany who had a dictator that tortured his people for fun, who massacred thousands upon thousands of his own people because they thought he was a tyrant. A dictator who didn't allow inspectors in to make sure that chemical weapons he used in the past were now destroyed. Everyone would be crying bloody murder, everyone would be yelling we need to do something about it.
Well, we did, it was tough, we lost a lot of good men and women, but I am glad I was a part of it, as most of the people I serve with are proud of it. We did what needed to be done, and frankly, I don't give a good God damn whether anybody who sits at home in the comfort of their house and criticizes the reasons we did it approves or not.
WOW, I needed to get that off my chest, I love blogs! DWFan, I need you to know that this was not a personal attack against you in any way shape of form, it just irritates me when people say we are there for oil, for money, for contracts, or for anything OTHER than trying to do something good. I take it as a personal slap in the face to me and all my fellow veterans who have ridden this out since the beginning. Who SEE the good being done over there, not just the bad things and mistakes that are trumpeted on the nightly news. I take it to mean that we are nothing more than mercenaries, and that really burns my grits!
Again, I respect you as a member of this site, as a fellow American and gun owner, as a person with his own opinions... I just had to get all this off my chest...Posted 08-05-2008 at 01:13 PM by USAF_462/2W1X1 - I didn't take it as a personal attack, USAF and I'm glad you took the opportunity to vent. Unlike some, (and I am not pointing fingers here), I believe in the right of an individual's opinion. The fact remains that the 9/11 terrorists had more of a direct connection to Saudi Arabia than to Iraq and the majority of the reasons stated by our government for going to war in Iraq simply weren't true and there is growing evidence that the govt. knew it wasn't true....much like Vietnam.
Humanitarian relief? Does that give us the right to invade another country and depose it's leadership? Then what is so special about Iraq as opposed to Darfur (Sudan) or Angola or Bosnia...or China?
This is not a personal slap on any veteran's face; I am a veteran too. I am proud of our service people. It's a questioning of the right of our government that is "by the people and for the people" to so willingly sacrifice this country's young citizens to "improve life" in another country. We cannot be the world's policemen nor be the armed force used for a country's liberation. We simply do not have the resouces to do that.
My basic premise is this. Any government that operates in secret or practices deception by definition is not "for the people".Posted 08-05-2008 at 02:59 PM by DWFan
Updated 08-05-2008 at 03:51 PM by DWFan -
It's kind of like hindsight.
At the time EVERYONE in the world believed the intelligence.
And sorry, but yes, contraband weapons WERE found, not as many as we thought, but they were found.
Next question, who has the crap he snuck out of the country?
If all you want to do, is say, That Mr. Bush is a bad man, you've said it, along with a lot of folks. But that means all the others who believed the same intel are just as bad as he is, and guess what, now you gotta point your finger at a bunch of Democrats, who are now conveniently saying, oops, I believed it then, but oh I've had a change of heart, and now I'm a good guy!
I have my own beefs with the sitting Prez, but I ain't gonna get on here, and call him names, and berate him. I also gave Mr. Clinton the same respect, and I can't stand him.
Everyone has jumped on the bash Bush bandwagon, but no one has anything that would stand in a court of law. The man has done the job, to the best of his ability, in the worst circumstances, and it could have been a lot worse, in the end.
He could have rolled over, and showed a yellow streak to the world. But your hindsight can't see those possibilities, can it? Hindsight is 20/20, as they say. Can you see into the future?Posted 08-05-2008 at 10:18 PM by Seabeescotty - If all I wanted to say is that Bush is a bad man, I wouldn't have mentioned Nixon and Johnson. I simply chose a Democrat and a Republican and the current President. In truth, and if you read the blog, he's doing nothing previous presidents haven't done in one form or another and THAT is my point. You can call it hindsight, I call it history; or more correctly, a running legacy of not just the president but of the entire government.Posted 08-06-2008 at 12:02 AM by DWFan
Updated 08-06-2008 at 04:38 AM by DWFan -
most conspiracy nuts are just that
NUTSPosted 08-31-2008 at 11:06 AM by billy - most are easy to dis when they are obviously delusional.
not all
MOSTPosted 08-31-2008 at 03:17 PM by billy - You mean the sky is not falling?Posted 08-31-2008 at 05:30 PM by TexasT
- Posted 08-31-2008 at 08:59 PM by toolman
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Very interesting article toolman.Posted 09-01-2008 at 07:52 AM by iflylow74
