My BLR

.308 Winchester

[lefty o]

assuming you are able to place the bullet where you want it, the .308 will kill most things that walk or crawl. deer are no problem for it.

The .308 Winchester has won more benchrest matches than any other cartridge above the 6mm caliber. And continues to win more Hunter class benchrest matches than all other cartridges combined. The .308 is also one of our most popular big game cartridges, not only in the U.S. but in many other countries as well.

Soon after World War II, the U.S. government issued contracts to Winchester and Remington for assistance in the development of a replacement cartridge for the .30-06. The result of those efforts was a shorter version of the .30-06 called T-65. Later the name was changed to 7.62mm NATO.

Realizing that any cartridge adopted by Uncle Sam was sure to become popular among civilian shooters, Winchester beat Remington to the punch by dressing the 7.62mm in civies and calling it .308 Winchester. It was a good move. The .308 went on to enjoy the popularity as a big game cartridge, not only in bolt action rifles but in pumps, single shots, autoloaders, and lever actions as well. Which pretty much sums up the primary reason for the .308's success. Its short overall length enables rifle manufacturers to offer it in any type of rifle.

Choosing the .308 instead of the .30-06 in a bolt action, slide action or autoloading rifle doesn't make sense simply because the shorter cartridge can never be made to equal the performance of the longer cartridge. But in a lever action rifle such as the Savage Model 99, the .308 is far superior to the .30-30 class of cartridges.

[jerry]

When I hunt w/ High Power I use a .308 & I'm the greatest deer hunter on the continent. So, if you want to be cool like me..........................

uhm..okay..

[jerry]

It was a joke LD, ha.

[jerry]

BTW,
I diasagree with this portion of the article.

"Choosing the .308 instead of the .30-06 in a bolt action, slide action or autoloading rifle doesn't make sense simply because the shorter cartridge can never be made to equal the performance of the longer cartridge."

30 ought 6 is a doozy :right:

[lefty o]

i also disagree with that statement. if you keep the 308 loaded with projectiles under 170gr it will go toe to toe with the -06. it is only with the 180gr+ that the 308 is at a disadvantage.

[jerry]

Yup a classic, :right:
But to say the 308 can never be made to = it's performance is only partly true. Someone needs to get in a book.

From: bartb@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Subject: Re: 308 vs. 30-06.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site

Brent Danielson (jessie@iastate.edu) wrote:

: Why is it that handloaded 30-60 can't be made as accurate as a .308
: given the same quality of rifle?

Because the '06 powder charge is longer and heavier. That tends to
be more difficult to uniformly ignite and delivers a harder blow to
the bullet before it gets into the rifling.

: In fact, I would think that a 30-06 could be more accurate since
: there is the option of loading it with more powder and getting the
: bullet to the mark quicker - thus reducing the opportunity for wind
: drift and other environmental anomalies.

A common belief, but it doesn't prove out in reality. Competitive
shooters would rather have a cartridge that is more accurate even if
the bullets leave the barrel 100 fps slower. The difference in wind
drift is overcome by the smaller cartridge shooting much smaller groups.
The '06 can shoot a 190 gr. about 100 fps faster than a .308. That gives
a one-half inch deflection advantage per MPH of crosswind at 1000 yards.
In real deflection, it's 9 inches for the .308 versus 8.5 inches for the
.30-06. With the best '06 match rifles shooting about 13-inch groups at
that range, their size opens up horizontally to about 30 inches with a
crosswind varying +/- one MPH. The best .308 rifles at 1000 yards
shoot about 7-inch groups. Those would increase horizontally to about
25 inches with the same crosswind variance. So, the increased velocity
of a .30-06 is in reality not an advantage compared to the .308 Win.
However, given equally accurate cartridges, less wind deflection of
one over the other would be an advantage.

In the '50s , when the .30-06 was the only cartridge allowed in highpower
competition for most matches, the best of 'em would shoot 5- to 6-inch
groups at 600 yards. The target used at 600 yards had a 12-inch V-ring
inside the 20-inch 5-ring. Shooting possible scores at 600 yards was
an every day thing. Then along came the .308 Win. and folks immediately
found out that in equal quality rifles, that new cartridge would shoot
groups half the size as the venerable '06. Scores instantly became much
higher and a few years later the target's scoring ring sizes were made
smaller. It was attributed to the .308's shorter and smaller powder
charge. Perhaps other things helped too, but it all boils down to the
fact that the .308 Win. has better accuracy at all ranges through 1000
yards.

Outside of competitive shooting, the difference between these two
cartridges is miniscule.

BB


Search for Google's copy of this article
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From: bartb@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Subject: Re: Inherent accuracy of different calibres
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site

C. Daniel Myers (myersc@ucs.orst.edu) wrote:

: I keep hearing how .308 Win is more accurate than .30-06 Springfield.
: Is this true?

Yes it is true. The .308's improved accuracy is why the NRA reduced the
scoring ring sizes on highpower competiton 200 and 300 yard targets in 1966.
And the 1000-yard target's scoring ring sizes were made smaller in 1971.

Reasons why the .308 Win. is more accurate than the .30-06 are primarily
due to its smaller (lighter weight) powder charge:

* Being the same diameter, but shorter in length, it ignites and burns
more uniformly. This results in smaller velocity spreads which means
vertical shot stringing is smaller. Tests in the early 1960s showed
the .308s cut vertical group size about in half over the .30-06.

* As the smaller charge causes the front slope of the pressure curve to
not rise as fast, the bullet is pushed more gently into the throat/leade.
This causes less bullet deformation which results in the bullet being
less unbalanced as it leaves the barrel. More balanced bullets shoot
more accurately than less balanced ones.

* Another reason is barrel twist. .30-06 barrels standardized on a 1:10
twist in the early 1900s. That is way too fast for best accuracy with
150 to 180 grain bullets they mostly used. A 1:12 twist would have been
much better but folks didn't understand that at the time. With the .308
having 1:12 or 1:11 twists, their slower-velocity bullets were perfectly
stabilized and they shot smaller groups. Only with 200-grain bullets
did the .30-06 hold its own, but they had to shot with maximum charges
and that meant recoil started getting difficult to consistantly manage.

The best 600-yard groups competition .30-06es got in the 1960s was about
5 to 6 inches for twenty shots. As the .308 Win. cut that in half, the
bigger matches would have the top five or so competitor's with the same
perfect scores; tie breaking became a nusiance. With a few people having
a score of 100-20V, the NRA's tie-breaking rules didn't work; match
sponsors had to share awards between two tieing scores.

On those old military targets, the B target used at 600 yards had a 20-inch
5-ring and its V-ring inside was 12-inches. Putting 20 record shots inside
the V-ring happend once in a while. But the 1966 decimal midrange (MR)
target has a 12-inch 10-ring with a 6-inch X-ring inside of it. Now, the
discrimination between scores and competitors is much easier to make. Yes,
perfect scores are still shot on the new target; the record is 200-19X.

But in the pursuit of game animals, the differences are rather small when
sporting rifles are used.

BB

this is one slick handling rifle..smooth.. :full:

[jerry]

Ok,
Next time we hear about it better be in a range report Mr.! :full:

I'm going to a gunshow today..can't make no promises it will still be with me afterwards.. :jaw:

I couldn't find the gunshow..I think it got cancelled..I took it to the range..was going to shoot it but the range had no .308 Winchester in stock :insane:

The entry below is plagarized from SPEER's Reloading Manual #12:

Like many other successful sporting cartridges, the .308 Winchester began
as a military development. The Search for an effective and compact cartridge
for machine guns and semi-auto service rifles actually began shortly after World
War I and continued until the experimental T65 cartridge was adopted by the U.S.
as the 7.62 NATO service cartridge in 1954.

Winchester beat the military to the punch by introducing the T65 as the
.308 Winchester in 1952. The case was almost a half-inch shorter than the
30-06, but, with special ball powders developed for the T65, the .308 could
nearly match the ballistics of the older service cartridge. First offered in
the Winchester Model 70 bolt action and the Model 88 lever action, the .308 was
quickly picked up by other manufacturers. It was a natural for short-action
rifles and quickly established a reputation for accuracy.

Winchester barrels for the .308 were made with a 1-in-12 inch twist rate.
This limited the heaviest useful bullet weight to 200 grains instead of 220
grains, found in the 30-06. Other rifle makers have built .308 rifles using
1-in-10 inch twist barrels. There seems to be little practical difference
between the two twist rates with bullets lighter than 200 grains.

In the hunting field, ballistic differences between the .308 and the 30-06
are negligible. The choice between the two cartridges can often be made by the
type of action you prefer. A short bolt-action or a semi-auto, lever- or
slide-action favors the .308. In full-length action, the 30-06 gets the nod.
Both cartridges can be used on similar types of game. They are suitable for
anything in North America with the exception of the great bears. We prefer a
larger, heavier bullet on these.

In a target-grade rifle, the .308 can be used effectively on steel and
paper targets out to 1,000 yards. Normally bullets such as Speer's 168 and 190
grain match boat tail hollow point are used for competition. In most rifles,
the .308 is capable of top-notch accuracy.

Because the .308 Winchester is a military spin-off, surplus cases are
readily available. Military cases are often thicker than commercial ones, and
have less case capacity. Reduce charges developed in commercial cases at least
5% when loading military brass. Also, try to match headstamps for more uniform
results. The loads to not exceed the SAAMI maximum average pressure of 52,000
cup.

The reason for the preceeding message is that I've seen quite a bit of
bantering about as to what cartridge is "best." The answer to that question is
simple: No 1 cartridge does EVERYTHING best. One cartridge may be awesome for
one application, and only moderate in another area. I've presented the
information in the last message to give y'all some background on *MY* favorite
rifle cartridge.

When you are thinking about what will get the job done, remember the 3 biggest
factors affecting bullet lethality: (1) Shot Placement, (2) Shot Placement, and
(3) Shot Placement. Do this well, and it will cover up a myriad of other sins.
Pick a cartridge that's in the general ballpark of being appropriate for the
job, add marksmanship, and the rest will follow.

[jerry]

Originally Posted by Logansdad

I couldn't find the gunshow..I think it got cancelled..I took it to the range..was going to shoot it but the range had no .308 Winchester in stock :insane:

Yes, it can be THAT popular :full:

I've been looking at another Browning BLR :right: they are fine rifles

[Johnny_Revolver]

The BLR in .308 would be a very good pig outfit here in my country. Just give you a little more flexability over say a 30-30. I would like a BLR .308 for sure, but they are a tad expensive new and extremely elusive second hand. In fact being left handed, a BLR in .308 would take some beating for the type of shooting I do.

$650 brand new here