Let's Push for a National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Law!

[Cyrano]

Anyone, especially anyone east of the Mississippi River which contains several of the Peoples Democratic Republics in the United States (Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey and Maryland) that aren't exactly warm to the idea of citizens exercising their Second Amendment rights, who has had occasion to consider transporting their pistols across state lines, knows what a pain in the neck it is to do so legally without the possibility of being arrested by an overzealous cop. To go from, say, upstate New York to Florida, if memory serves you need not only your NY State resident CCW, but you need nonresident permits from PA, MD and FL as well. Each of these permits costs at least as much as the NY permit does, and it takes a lot of time and trouble to get them all.

I feel this is nonsense and pure bovine feces. We all know the requirements to obtain a pistol permit don't vary much from state to state. The Constitution (don't remember which Article, but it's in there) requires states to honor each other's legal documents. This is why you can drive anywhere in the USA on your home state's driver's license. The same principle should apply to a CCW permit.

If you want to help push for a federal law that says all states must honor each other's pistol permits, here's the text of a letter I sent to my Congressman. Feel free to copy and amend it, and send it to your Congresscritters and Senators. If enough of us push for this, especially with DC v. Heller coming up and almost certain to be decided our way, perhaps we can put a stop to the silliness of making honest people get multiple permits just to do something they have a right to do, legally.

Dear Congressman Hall:

I want you to imagine something for me.

You have a driver’s license issued by your state of residence, the State of New York. Now, let’s suppose you decided to drive from your home to a Democratic Party function in, say, Connecticut. The Connecticut State Police spot your New York license plates, pull you over and ask to see your driver’s license. They look at it and tell you, "Sorry, Mr. Hall, but you can’t drive in the State of Connecticut. This isn’t a Connecticut license, and you must have a Connecticut driver’s license to drive here. You’re under arrest for driving without a license."

Or, let’s suppose you and your wife buy a little summer place on Cape Cod. As you and your wife are moving in, the chief of police stops by and asks to see your marriage license. You and she produce it. He looks at it and tells you, "I’m sorry, Mr. and Mrs. Hall, but you aren’t legally married. This marriage license wasn’t issued in Massachusetts. The Commonwealth only recognizes marriages with marriage licenses issued in Massachusetts. If you want to be considered legally married in Massachusetts, you will have to get a Massachusetts marriage license and get married all over again."

It sounds preposterous, doesn’t it? Absurd, even? A basic standard of American law is that all states must recognize and respect each other’s driver’s licenses and marriage licenses, even though the criteria for issue vary somewhat from state to state. Everybody knows this. You can drive anywhere in the country on your home state’s driver’s license. And no one ever questions whether your marriage is legal, even if you were married in another state.

But look at those two scenarios again. This time, substitute "carry concealed weapon license" for the driver’s license and the marriage license. You now have the idea of the problem – or perhaps discrimination is more precise – faced by American citizens lawfully licensed to carry concealed the moment they cross a state line.
As things stand now, trying to go from Point A to Point B with a pistol, even if you aren’t carrying it on your person and have it locked away in your luggage with the ammunition stored separately from the weapon, is a legal ball of snakes. Not all states recognize the permits of all other states. Some, like Texas, recognize the permits of about half the states in the Union. Others, like Massachusetts and New York, recognize only permits issued by their state. A few, like Idaho, Michigan, Utah, South Dakota, Indiana, Missouri, Oklahoma, Tennessee and Kentucky do recognize and honor valid carry concealed weapons permits from all other states; but as you can see they are very much in the minority.

The permit situation is so convoluted that the State of Florida issues a pistol permit called a "Nonresident Concealed Carry Weapons Permit" that provides non-residents of Florida with reciprocity with most of the states east of the Mississippi, just so they can transport their pistols without being hassled by the police in the states they drive through. But even there, unless one has also obtained Nonresident CCW permits from the Commonwealths of Virginia and Pennsylvania, it is entirely possible that a simple traffic stop could land you in jail for illegal carriage of a weapon – even though you have a valid permit in your home state!

As I have said, Congressman Hall, this is absurd. The situation needs to be regularized. The rules for who is allowed to carry concealed vary no more from state to state than do the requirements for obtaining a driver’s license. Ask one of your staffers to spend a little time pulling the requirements for each state’s CCW permit off the Internet and you will see what I mean. Firearms safety classes; background checks; references; fingerprinting; not being a convicted felon; not being a drug addict; not having been committed to a mental institution; they’re all standard requirements for citizens who wish to obtain a pistol permit.

As a group, CCW permit holders are much better versed in firearms safety and the responsibility that goes with firearms use than run of the mill citizens. They deserve the same consideration and reciprocity under the law that drivers of motor vehicles receive across the country.

If the several states in the Union are required to honor the one kind of license, by the same principle they ought to honor the other. I respectfully request that you draft and sponsor a National Concealed Weapons Permit Reciprocity Bill, to require all states to honor all legally issued carry concealed permits issued by all other states. It would save citizens with state-issued CCW permits a great deal of nonsense. It would relieve them and the police of the necessity of trying to remember whose permits are honored reciprocally with whom. Finally, it would insure that honest citizens could travel with their firearms in their cars without having to worry about being arrested simply for crossing a state line with those firearms in their possession. It’s a law whose time has come.

Thank you for your attention.

Sincerely,

[ArkansasHunter]

You left out that the Constition says we can carry and bear arms too !

Good read and maybe it'll will bring about the results we hope for...A.H

[BattleRifleG3]

Full faith and credit is also in the Constitution, which is why marriage and driver's licenses transfer. Not honoring other state's CCW permits not only violates the 2nd Amendment, but the full faith and credit clasue of the Constitution.

[Cyrano]

Thanks, BRG3. That was the clause in the Articles I couldn't remember. As you and I both say, that clause is why the several states must honor each other's driver's and marriage licenses. It's a big point in my argument in favor of a national reciprocity CCW permit law.

[Windwalker]

It sure would be nice.

[seven]

An "incident" at work last week reminded me that I need to get a concealed weapons permit. So I went down to the Sherrif's office today and in three weeks and $20 I should have my own carry permit.

It also brings to light how foolish I have been not to take advantage of my own rights in order to protect myself and my property. A 15 minute drive, one form to fill out and a 20 dollar bill is all the time and money it will take for me to exercise my rights.

[BPierce]

Right now the issue of concealed carry is considered a "states rights" issue. Their are a lot of things that one may be licensed for in one state that are not recognized in the others. (I sure wish ND recognized my MN hunting license) The drivers license falls under an interstate transportation consideration. Even so the requirements and laws pertaining to driving are much more universal than CCW laws.

There is however a practical first step. A major problem that is keeping states from granting reciprocity and even recognition of out of state permits is the disparity between the laws. For instance, one state has no requirement and so none of the other states have granted reciprocity.

I would suggest that the federal government use the carrot rather than the stick. Devise a federal background & training standard that would not be required of the states. However if a state adopted the standard their CCW permits would automatically meet the requirements for reciprocity in all states using the standard.

An option would be a federal "background & training certification". This would not be a permit, except perhaps in DC and other federal territories, but the states could recognize anyone with a federal certification as automatically meeting the requirements for their state license as well as automatic reciprocity for any visitor with a federal certification.

Either of these options would encourage the states to get on the bandwagon. It would also relieve them of having to evaluate the laws and training standards of other states.

States do not recognize each other's marriage licenses. You can not get a marriage license in MN and go to Madison to get married. States recognize the "marriage" not the license. The only thing the license does is permit the marriage to take place. States also recognize foreign marriages that were not subject to any of the laws we feel important in the US. Also with the advent of "same sex" marriages in some states it is questionable if all states will automatically recognize a "marriage" conducted in another state even if the participants were "married" after obtaining a valid marriage license.

[dscrick]

I live in Ohio, CCW became law here in April of 2006. I received the 46th permit issued in my county. The state Attorney General at that time began the process of making reciprocity agreements with other states. Then a Democrat governer and a Democrat AG got voted in, so that has not gone anywhere since.

I decide to do the prudent thing and get a Florida non resident permit. It's recognized in just about every state that has CCW. The rest of them are the usual commie commonwealths and such, where ther will never be CCW.

A national reciprocity bill would be great, but the law enforcement community has been trying to get legislation allowing off duty police to carry in other states for years, and even THAT has met with resistance.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by dscrick

I live in Ohio, CCW became law here in April of 2006. I received the 46th permit issued in my county. The state Attorney General at that time began the process of making reciprocity agreements with other states. Then a Democrat governer and a Democrat AG got voted in, so that has not gone anywhere since.

I decide to do the prudent thing and get a Florida non resident permit. It's recognized in just about every state that has CCW. The rest of them are the usual commie commonwealths and such, where ther will never be CCW.

A national reciprocity bill would be great, but the law enforcement community has been trying to get legislation allowing off duty police to carry in other states for years, and even THAT has met with resistance.

Oh, I agree, Chief. There will be resistance, not only from the gun-grabbers but also from the states-rights crowd. But nothing will happen if all we do is talk about it. We have to contact our congresscritters (useless as they may be for far too many things) and make some noise. If enough of us send enough letters to the 425 duly elected clowns that allegedly represent the American People in Washington, we may see some action on this issue.

I'll agree that the chances of the National Concealed Weapon Reciprocity Bill passing the first time out are right up there with the tissue paper dog chasing the asbestos cat through hell. But if we can get one congresscritter to write up and sponsor a bill and get it put into the hopper, even if the bill ends up pigeonholed or tied up in committee by the antigun fascists like McCarthy, Pelosi, Feinstein and Clinton, the issue will be out in the open. It will be in the Congressional Record. People will become aware of it, and they may discuss it some. What I am certain of is that if we just sit here and bitch to each other about what a lousy situation it is at present, when you can't be sure which states have reciprocity with what other states at any given time without having to research it online and making sure the info is current, it won't get any better.

Look, the worst possible result of your writing your Congressman would be getting back a form letter saying in effect, "Thank you for your letter voicing your concerns. Now sod off. I don't give a damn." The best possible result would be getting a letter saying, "Thank you for your letter. I agree with you. I'm putting such a bill into the hopper this week. Can you suggest sources for reliable information to help me make my case and get co-sponsors?" But you won't know until you try.

If we all try, it could make a difference. And if we don't get any results - well, at least we'll know we tried, and we can vote against the incumbent swine come November!

[LarryO1970]

Guys, I live in Wisconsin and we have a Democrat Governor who has scuttled the CCW attempt every time. I carry anyway... he has no right to tell me I cannot enjoy the RIGHT to the 2nd Amendment of MY Constitution.

Funny part here... is that all these idiots who say we cannot carry or utilize our rights to self defense and the 2nd Amendment surround themselves with guns. Hypocrites...

[dscrick]

Originally Posted by Cyrano

Oh, I agree, Chief. There will be resistance, not only from the gun-grabbers but also from the states-rights crowd. But nothing will happen if all we do is talk about it. We have to contact our congresscritters (useless as they may be for far too many things) and make some noise. If enough of us send enough letters to the 425 duly elected clowns that allegedly represent the American People in Washington, we may see some action on this issue.

I'll agree that the chances of the National Concealed Weapon Reciprocity Bill passing the first time out are right up there with the tissue paper dog chasing the asbestos cat through hell. But if we can get one congresscritter to write up and sponsor a bill and get it put into the hopper, even if the bill ends up pigeonholed or tied up in committee by the antigun fascists like McCarthy, Pelosi, Feinstein and Clinton, the issue will be out in the open. It will be in the Congressional Record. People will become aware of it, and they may discuss it some. What I am certain of is that if we just sit here and bitch to each other about what a lousy situation it is at present, when you can't be sure which states have reciprocity with what other states at any given time without having to research it online and making sure the info is current, it won't get any better.

Look, the worst possible result of your writing your Congressman would be getting back a form letter saying in effect, "Thank you for your letter voicing your concerns. Now sod off. I don't give a damn." The best possible result would be getting a letter saying, "Thank you for your letter. I agree with you. I'm putting such a bill into the hopper this week. Can you suggest sources for reliable information to help me make my case and get co-sponsors?" But you won't know until you try.

If we all try, it could make a difference. And if we don't get any results - well, at least we'll know we tried, and we can vote against the incumbent swine come November!

Dead on Cyrano. We must flood the offices of our 425 "Duly elected clowns" (and the 100 other idiots in the Senate) with calls and letters.

And even if you don't agree with all they do, JOIN THE NRA! They are the most effective lobby for our 2nd ammendment rights.