Hello all. As of late I have noticed a sub discussion going on in some threads that I felt needs some attention. I have recently acquired my CCW permit, and I have been debating with myself on whether to keep a round chambered or not. I figure this would be a good time for everyone to voice their two cents on whether you keep a round ready, not ready and why or why not?
Ive been going back and forth (I know thats not good). It feels i could go either way. On one side I like the idea of having a round ready; that way all I would have to do is draw, hit the safety and im ready to roll. On the other hand, Im a bit more at ease without a round racked and ready.Problem is that adds more steps.
Lets discuss. What do you prefer, and why?
*Side note: Im not asking for advice, im just asking for everyones opinion on what YOU prefer.
Last edited by KlientL; 06-28-2009 at 01:32 PM.
Reason: update
A chambered round is fine if you train yourself to manage it properly. You also want a safe place to chamber and extract the round when performing routine maint. Personally, depends on the situation. I can go back and forth as easy as driving a standard or auto trans.
Those who believe you should always have one chambered tend to believe it with a fervor that borders on religion. And they're going to weigh in heavily, if this thread is like most others on the subject.
But in the end, it's up to you. Depends on what kind of a gun you carry; when, where and how you carry; and what you feel comfortable with. If you do decide to carry without one in the chamber, practice until pulling and racking becomes one automatic motion.
The Israelis do it that way. The last time I went looking, I found several videos on their training that were worth watching.
Those who believe you should always have one chambered tend to believe it with a fervor that borders on religion. And they're going to weigh in heavily, if this thread is like most others on the subject.
Uh oooh. So your telling me this is gonna turn into a heated debate? Even though im already seated, im gonna pull up a seat.
Whatever way you choose, train that way. If you train with one in the chamber and get your "thinking" that way, fine. If you go with an empty chamber, train yourself to chamber one. Practice, practice, practice. Check out the Israeli videos on YouTube. My opinion, either way is good as long as you train that way. You are responsible for what you do with your gun. Whatever is "comfortable" for you. Some people don't like the empty chamber because they may not have a free hand to chamber one when they need to. That could happen, especially in the drivers seat of a car. I like one chambered, but with a safe-action or double-action pistol. I don't feel comfortable with a cocked and locked carry with a 1911 or Browning Hi-Power. To each their own.
Whatever way you choose, train that way. If you train with one in the chamber and get your "thinking" that way, fine. If you go with an empty chamber, train yourself to chamber one. Practice, practice, practice. Check out the Israeli videos on YouTube. My opinion, either way is good as long as you train that way. You are responsible for what you do with your gun. Whatever is "comfortable" for you.
Im going back and forth figuring it out for my self, but Im really asking what do you prefer?
I don't keep one in the chamber for many reasons. Most of them personal preferences I suppose. However, if I don't have time to pull my weapon and chamber a round I probably won't have time to pull it and use it in the first place.
With a revolver there is always - one in the pipe - . I do not carry an auto for defense purposes two many variables . My way its safety-BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM !! Any more questions .?.
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With a revolver there is always - one in the pipe - . I do not carry an auto for defense purposes two many variables . My way its safety-BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM !! Any more questions .?.
LoL! I guess i should have been more specific and excluded revolvers.However i get your drift.
I carry a 1911 and always have one in, cocked & locked. As others have said, training is the key. If you choose to go with one in, practice a lot and make it a conscious movement and process to check your safeties. Every time I pick up my 1911, every time I get into or out of a vehicle or a chair, I check my thumb safety and hammer. I did the same when I carried a .40 in DA mode. It is process and you have to avoid going on "auto pilot." Accidents will happen when you become numb to the routine. There is nothing routine about safety. I has to be a conscious decision.
My feeling is, if you have one in the chamber already, you have a better chance of getting a shot off if you only have the use of one hand or you're in an awkward position, making racking the slide difficult. I prefer a double-action pistol with decocker, so you're less likely to have an AD if the safety gets swept off by accident.
I prefer one in the chamber.
As one gets further up the age chain, reflexes diminish and reaction time increases. I want to have the shortest reaction time available so...
chambered, cocked, and locked is the standard plan of the day.
__________________ If ya don't know where I've been and ya don't know where I'm going, your opinions of me don't count.
depending on the gun i carry for instance when i carry the nighthawk 1911 i carry cocked and locked because you honestly can't get safer 3 different safeties are involved in a 1911.
If i am carrying my glock 17 i do not keep a round in the chamber in my opinion its to easy to snag a trigger on a seat belt corner etc etc......
a cz-75 sp -01 tactical has the decocker and long trigger pull like a double action revolver i carry a round in.
but for the most part i carry a double action only revolver every day.
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God doesn't give rights. Men have to fight for them.
I've had to hardwire myself for many different carry conditions. Unchambered with no mag in the well, unchambered with a mag in the well, and fully loaded chambered.
When I was in the Navy, I was part of the security detail for our missile submarine. We carried unloaded unchambered .45 M1911A1 service pistols in big leather flap holsters; however, we could draw, load, chamber, and shoot in one fairly quick motion. That is the way we trained and we were confident in our speed and capabilities. Likewise, when I was in Iraq, I carried a 9mm M9 service pistol that rode in a brown leather aftermarket OIF-Victory counter balance shoulder holster that was popular when I was downrange. Since only the security patrols, infantry, SF, and convoy escorts carried loaded, the rest of us carried our weapons empty; again with no chambered round and an empty mag well. Two loaded mags were carried on the opposite side of the counter balanced shoulder rig.
When I was in law enforcement, we carried with a mag in the well and a chambered round. My first issued auto-pistol was a DA 9mm Smith & Wesson Model 5906. My second issued auto-pistol was a [so-called] Safe Action .40 Glock 23. Both were fast into action with constant training in safety and operation. In those days as a basic and tactical instructor, I would go through a few hundred, to over a thousand rounds of ammunition per week.
Now, I carry either a SA .45 Colt Officer's ACP or a .45 Springfield Armory M1911A1 depending on concealment possibilities with the larger pistol being preferred. In both cases, I carry in Condition 2; loaded chamber with the hammer down. I am very ambidextrous but I don't like ambidextrous safeties on a 1911 type pistol. I would rather thumb the hammer spur as I draw. It’s easy enough to snap the safety on if I don’t need to shoot. As for Condition 1; cocked and locked; I would be O.K. with that if I was purely right handed; but I’m not.
Regardless of which decision you make in carry modes; practice at it on the range and go over every imaginable scenario in your mind. Every mode is fast with practice and forethought.
__________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Was "Your" Voice Heard Today? NRA-ILA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Those who believe you should always have one chambered tend to believe it with a fervor that borders on religion. And they're going to weigh in heavily, if this thread is like most others on the subject.
But in the end, it's up to you. Depends on what kind of a gun you carry; when, where and how you carry; and what you feel comfortable with. If you do decide to carry without one in the chamber, practice until pulling and racking becomes one automatic motion.
The Israelis do it that way. The last time I went looking, I found several videos on their training that were worth watching.
I agree with Troy. It's a personal decision, as the comments here indicate. But we all know we have to be aware of what we are doing.
__________________ Go ahead, Makarov my day!~~makarov.com
When I'm at home none of my guns have a cartridge in the chamber. My one and only pistol and home defence shotgun are on stand by 24/7.
It will take less than 2 seconds to rack either one.
I sometimes carry both weapons when I go off somewhere in an automobile. Depending where I'm going and time of day most of the time the barrel is empty.
I do carry loaded if I go out at night, say to pick up carry out (food) or to a place such as a dollar store or Wal Mart.
As much as I've handeled, played and practised with these 2 weapons in the home I think I'll be alright.
At home I've got guns scattered every where I can throw or use as clubs if had to LOL
__________________ IN GOD WE TRUST NRA MEMBER
Last edited by ArkansasHunter; 06-28-2009 at 03:17 PM.
I have carried 35 years....chamber empty on a M1911. I can rack and aim in no longer time than just aim. Now in certain areas...and I can count maybe 20 in that many years, I chambered one. For the every day carry in my neighborhood which is a good one, I don't chamber.
Here is the thing. In a gun fight the first thing I am going for is cover, not my gun. If I am in trapping/grappling range my hands are like 100 times faster than me making a big motion to pull a gun out. In that situation I am going to strike with my hands first, create space (or absorb space depending on what I want to do) then go from there.
I can also have my knife out faster than my gun so in a close up call I would go for the knife first.
Now if someone is going to sneak up on me and shoot me in the back then no matter what I do or have on me matters.
Many cases where you'll have to defend yourself with a firearm in a CCW situation happen much closer and faster than you would like. There was an excellent article in the last issue of "American Handgunner" which talks about a Marine with a CCW permit defending himself against 2 BG's in a shooting which tells the story much better than I could. He wouldn't have had time to cycle a slide and had instinctively gotten the thumb safety off. You might want to look at real world shootings and see just how many of those might have worked if the defender had to cycle the slide to get his gun into action. Additionally, I have read about very few bona-fide AD's where the gun (carried properly with safety devices engaged if so equipped) fired without the trigger being depressed.
Most modern firearms are perfectly safe when carried with a round chambered. They can be dropped and have been drop tested (and if a firearm carried in the proper safety condition slips out of your hand I personally believe one should let fall in most cases vice lunging for it and mistakenly actuating the trigger--which has caused fatalities). My 1911 has a grip and thumb safety, and positive firing pin block (and when I carry it CCW I always carry it cocked and locked which I consider the safest and most prudent way to carry it). My Sig's have a positive firing pin lock. My revolvers have either transfer bars, hammer blocks, or internal hammers with hammer blocks. The point is the design allows for one in the pipe safely for all my modern firearms.
Under some storage conditions I will store a gun with the clip in and no round chambered (but not if I think I might actively need it). But these are storage guns only for carriage use later. The only exception I might make (which isn't CCW) is a ready use pump action shotgun stored with the safety off, magazine loaded but no round chambered (it is a two handed proposition for me and it is as fast for me if not faster to rack the slide than it would be to fumble to release the manual safety).
The bottom line is you need to train with the gun in the condition you will carry it; and I think the best way to carry under most circumstances is with one in the pipe (but if you aren't capable of doing this comfortably at the present stage do what you need to do to carry every time, all the time). Under stress is no time to be fiddling with levers which you haven't trained to, or trying to get a gun into battery.
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God gives us free will; the statist tries to take it away
If I need my gun, I probably need it NOW, anything I can do to make my gun ready faster I go for. I keep one in the chamber.
I carry a Kel Tec P11 and a Glock 27 or 22. The P11 has a long heavy double action trigger pull (9.5 #'s) and carry it with a belt clip. My Glocks are always holstered when I carry them as they have a 5 # trigger pull.
One in the head, or NOT to one in the head? 
