Here is an interesting thought. We all know some of the silliness about NFA stuff--the very popular judge has a RIFLED barrel for this very reason (short barreled smokeless powder smoothbores are illegal). So a judge pistol/shotgun is perfectly legal due to its rifled barrel, as is the mossberg 500 smoothbore with a pistol grip because it is over 16 inches. The circuit court judge is a shotgun rilfe and is a rifled bore. The ranch hand is a pistol with no real stock--so it looks like a rifle but is really a handgun with a longer barrel.
Here is the question--why has no one though of (or made) a pistol grip short barreled shotgun (like the pistol grip mossberg 500) with a rifled slug barrel (or with rifling with a low twist rate like the judge) and a short barrel (i.e. less than 16 inches). It seems like this might make a good VERY short range defense gun--and perfectly legal (i.e. with the rifling one could have a 10 or even less (not sure youd want one) inch barrel pistol grip legal pump shotgun -- maybe ideal in 20 gauge). So one would have effectively a legal equivalent of a sawed off shotgun due to the rilfed barrel. Wonder why something like this is not in commercial production.
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In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit -- John Galt
Ithaca used to make a 410 pistol called the "Auto burglar" many years ago if my memory has not failed me. I think it disappeared when new laws about short barreled shotguns came about.
Here is an interesting thought. We all know some of the silliness about NFA stuff--the very popular judge has a RIFLED barrel for this very reason (short barreled smokeless powder smoothbores are illegal). So a judge pistol/shotgun is perfectly legal due to its rifled barrel, as is the mossberg 500 smoothbore with a pistol grip because it is over 16 inches. The circuit court judge is a shotgun rilfe and is a rifled bore. The ranch hand is a pistol with no real stock--so it looks like a rifle but is really a handgun with a longer barrel.
Here is the question--why has no one though of (or made) a pistol grip short barreled shotgun (like the pistol grip mossberg 500) with a rifled slug barrel (or with rifling with a low twist rate like the judge) and a short barrel (i.e. less than 16 inches). It seems like this might make a good VERY short range defense gun--and perfectly legal (i.e. with the rifling one could have a 10 or even less (not sure youd want one) inch barrel pistol grip legal pump shotgun -- maybe ideal in 20 gauge). So one would have effectively a legal equivalent of a sawed off shotgun due to the rilfed barrel. Wonder why something like this is not in commercial production.
Don't give em too much fat to chew on feller. Remember when the OA93 was declaired illegal?
Back around the time John M. Browning was designing the Model 1887 lever action shotgun, Ithaca came out with a double-barreled, external-hammer, break action pistol for home defense. I think the barrel length was something on the order of 12 inches, and it had a grip sort of like the bird's head grip on some of the Colt revolvers. I don't recall the trade name of the thing, but I do know it was meant for blackpowder loads. Theoretically it could be fired with one hand, but I got the impression it was more akin to a sawed-off shotgun designed as such from the start. I think it was chambered in 12 gauge, but it might have been 20 gauge; I know it was larger than .410, but that's as far as my memory takes me.
Now my question is "HOW MUCH of a barreled has to be rifled" to be a rifled bore? There are parts of the barrel length that are not rifled but are counted in the overall length such as the chamber and any muzzle device.
For what you are looking for it may not help a whole lot but if you took say a .44 with a 6" barrel but only 1/2" of rifling and fired shot shells it would hole a much tighter pattern then if you sent that same load down a standard barrel.
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Anything said here is my PERSONAL opinion nothing more
To many laws. If the bad guys want a short barrel shotgun they can go down to a hardware store or walmrt and buy a hacksaw. That would probably be the only legal thing they do. But then again they could just find someones shed and steal the hacksaw. A good hacksaw can fix any long barreled shotgun. But we the legal gun owners can not purchase or posess a legal hacksaw and shorten a legally owned and registered shotgun
the key word here is "shotgun". the .410 bore is not a shotgun. all 28, 20, 16, 12 and 10 gauges ARE SHOTGUNS AND ARE RESTRICTED TO NO LESS THAN AN 18" BARRELL (RIFLED OR NOT)
Stay out of "favor". Be very careful "splitting" hairs
Short-barreled (<18") shotguns manufactured without a shoulder stock*
They are smooth-bore handguns which fire shot shells, not shotguns, which must be designed to be fired from the shoulder.
Title II of the Gun Control Act of 1968 is a revision of the National Firearms Act of 1934, and pertains to machine guns, short or "sawed-off" shotguns and rifles, and so-called "destructive devices" (including grenades, mortars, rocket launchers, large projectiles, and other heavy ordnance). Acquisition of these weapons is subject to prior approval of the Attorney General, and federal registration is required for possession. Generally, a $200 tax is imposed upon each transfer or making of any Title II weapon.
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
It must be intended to be fired from the shoulder and fire one shell of ball shot or one projectile at a time.[10]
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Craig
Who refreshes others will be refreshed. Proverbs 11:25
As I recall from reading last month's gun magazines, a "concept gun" (same idea as a concept car at the auto shows) made by Taurus was shown at the 2011 SHOT Show. Essentially, it was a Taurus Judge with a 3 inch barrel in 28 gauge. It wasn't even a production prototype; it was a one-off piece.
I think the rationale for it was a response to complaints that at anything short of point-blank range and with 00 buck or the Federal copper disk loads, a .410 Judge spreads its pattern too wide because of the rifling in the barrel. Taurus wanted to put more shot in the loads, thus increasing the concentration because the heavier load wouldn't spread as much at personal defense distances.
They wanted to put it into production, and maybe also build a Tracker in that gauge if the 28-gauge Judge was a success in the marketplace. However, the BATFE stepped in, evaluated the proposal, and nixed it. They reasoned that .410 is a caliber, but 28-gauge is a gauge; and therefore, rifling in the barrel or not, a 28-gauge Judge would qualify as a short-barreled shotgun. That, they wouldn't have, even if it was so declared and potential buyers were warned they would have to go through the BATFE tax-stamp and background check process.
BATFE's decision put an end to the idea, at least in the United States. The question then becomes, is there a big enough market outside the United States for a 28-gauge revolver, perhaps with a proper smoothbore barrel, to justify tooling up to produce it? I guess Taurus decided there wasn't. At least, there is no 28-gauge Judge in their catalog.
The only thing I know for sure is that all laws, regulations, and restrictions dealing with any firearm in particular or any other form of armament in general as it relates to the construction, use, possession, transport, or ownership by private citizens is an infringement of the 2nd Amendment. This most assuredly includes NFA 1934 and GCA 1968.
The only thing I know for sure is that all laws, regulations, and restrictions dealing with any firearm in particular or any other form of armament in general as it relates to the construction, use, possession, transport, or ownership by private citizens is an infringement of the 2nd Amendment. This most assuredly includes NFA 1934 and GCA 1968.
i for 1 have no quarrel with nfa 1934 nor gca 1968 for i see no practical necessity or otherwise use for sawed off shotguns nor full auto weapons.
even when i was in service i found the m60 mg (full auto only) to be more accurate, more efficient and more effective when i learned to shoot it like a semi-auto by munipulation of the trigger. ( a procedure which was banned in mg competitions during the late 90s) IT WAS TOO GOOD
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ATF 
