Class III question

travisg96 · 12-09-2008, 03:10 PM

Ok, so this may not all pertain to class III weapons but I will start there. I like to attend storage unit auctions. Usually they are pieced out and I have seen firearms come out of them. Sometimes they are sold as a unit and basically are unopened before the auction. Question 1 is if I was to purchase one of these unopened units and in emptying it was to find a class III weapon, what do I do? It will not be registered to me. Can I have it transfered to me, or can I sell it to a class III dealer? No this has not happened to me, but I have seen some pretty strange things come out of storage units. Question 2, regards to assult weapons not specifically class III, I think the ban is not in effect right now but how does the definiton work. If I put a thumbhole stock on it is it still considered a pistol grip? Or does it depend on how big the hole is. And what is the restriction of the 10 parts? From what I count it would take over ten parts to make a working gun or is this only apply to imported parts? So if(take the sear for example)I machine my own piece(or more likely have it done) is it no longer a imported piece?
Question 3, I live in Oregon. It is legal to posses a silencer here. Can I legally build my own silencer and just have to register it with the ATF?

I know that these are big questions so if anyone has a email for the atf dept that could answer them I will just ask them.

Otter · 12-09-2008, 06:37 PM

Oregon allows class 3 weapons to be registered in compliance with federal law, if you want a silencer, buy it from a title 2 manufacturer.
If I bought the contents of a storage unit and found an automatic weapon I would call ATF and have them come get it. If it was a registered, pre 86 weapon, I may have a claim to ownership and would ask ATF to transfer it to me.
Oregon doesn't have restrictions on "Assault Weapons," there is no assault weapon ban in effect right now on the federal level.

Mooseman684 · 12-09-2008, 07:04 PM

The first thing is , I doubt that you will find a legally owned Class 3 weapon in a storage unit, because it would be a violation of ATF ownership rules to have it stored there...It has to be stored in a safe and under the direct control of the owner, and available for inspection to ATF officials at any time...second if you did find one and took "Possession" of it, you would be in violation of Possessing an Illegal weapon Immediately. The Weapon is registered to a particular owner and only that owner , or his heirs if he dies.
You would not be able to own that weapon if you wanted to.
Guns like that fall under "special Items" where the Government is concerned , not like household belongings that may be found in storage units...
Beware !

travisg96 · 12-24-2008, 03:21 PM

Just another thought but the NFA was enacted in 1934, so it was possible there were NFA weapons in existence that were never registered since they were owned before the law came in effect? I know it would be almost imposible to prove this but they may still be out there.

Mooseman684 · 12-24-2008, 05:25 PM

There are more than Likely lots of unregistered weapons out there...They are all ILLEGAL to own, but that doesnt stop people that have them stored in attics and closets...The registration period was so short and hardly advertised that working Ex-soldiers that had war trophies never knew about it until it was too late to get them Registered legally in 1968. Unless the BATFE does another amnesty period for registration, those guns will remain illegal to possess and own. There are people that have been pushing for another amnesty without much success so far.

Rich

travisg96 · 12-26-2008, 02:07 AM

That sucks, Have a friend who says the feds came and took his grandpa's gun he had brought back from WWII.

Otter · 12-26-2008, 09:52 AM

In Massachusetts, a library had a german machine gun on display. The gun was captured by Sargeant York during one of the world wars. The library wanted to sell the machine gun to raise money and found out it had never been registered. It was confiscated by BATF and is locked away in an evidence room awaiting destruction, There is no provision in the law to allow the weapon to be registered or allow it to be welded or otherwise disabled. Unless ATF puts it in their collection, it will be destroyed.

twtalbot · 12-26-2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Can I legally build my own silencer and just have to register it with the ATF?

I haven't read it all so I don't know exactly what's entailed (whether it can be a one-time registration or if it has to be a very expensive license), but the ATF has forms available for documenting the legal manufacture of silencers and even whole firearms. Go to the right official, fill out the right papers, and pay the right fee, and it's legal to make a silencer, but you're probably better off buying from a licensed dealer. Make sure you get that done BEFORE you begin fabricatioin.

travisg96 · 12-26-2008, 10:54 AM

There is a BMG that was salvaged form a plane that crashed in the desert outside Nellis Air Force Base in 43 that is on display at a rest near the base. May not be the same problem seing as how it is at a state rest stop. Not that it would be worth anything it was burried in the dunes for 40 years so it is certainly not useable.

travisg96 · 12-30-2008, 06:15 PM

I love how vague these rulings are written. They could be interpreted any way that suits them. Almost anything could be part of a NFA item. So if I designed a silencer that used bottlcaps and rubber hose washers as baffles and submit it to the ATF for approval and they determine it works then bottle caps and rubber hose washers are suddenly part of a NFA item and must have a $200 tax on eack one. Think of the implacations to industry.

rondog · 12-30-2008, 06:51 PM

I want to know more about how to get in on these "storage unit auctions"!!! How does one go about this? Yer gettin' me all excited here!

sharps_74 · 01-06-2009, 12:12 AM

I can tell you that the ATF does make exception for museums and such. You can build your own suppressor. You must FIRST fill out the paperwork, be finger printed, photographed, get your local CLEO to sign off and send the ATF a check for $200. Wait for your paperwork to come back BEFORE you start your build. In some cases your CLEO will refuse to sign off on your form. If that is the case then there are legal ways around it. They can not come check up on your suppressor nor how it's stored. You are responsible for keeping it from getting into unregistered hand just as you are with any title 2 weapon. Folks seem to think that it's hard to get a legal suppressor, it's not. I got my paperwork back from them in about 45 days.

If it's legal in your state to hunt using a suppressor as it is here in Arkansas, you'll find that hunting is more fun with a weapon that won't hurt your ears.

See if this helps you with your questions http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.e...st/nfa_faq.txt

travisg96 · 01-06-2009, 01:19 PM

As far as storage unit auctions go watch your local paper. If there is a nickle ad or money saver type free add paper they usually use those. Talk to the managers at local mini storage units. If you live close to a large area the frequency might be better. I am not saying that I have seen a lot of guns come out of units but I have seen them. I have seen locked safes be sold at auctions also and some places just auction off the unit as a piece and who knows what you may find(I know that can be a scary thought). Just go, be prepared for the weather, bring a folding chair and have a fair amount of money to spend(over $100 usually). I saw a locked roll away tool box(I think it was one of the ones from Costco) that ended up being full of name brand(think Mac and Snap on) tools for under $1000. As for my want for a supressor I have decided it is not worth it. I wanted to put one on my 9mm carbine but what I have read is that there is verry little gas escaping out the muzzle after pushing the slug down a 16" barrel. It already is quieter than a 22. And I suppose if I want to have any unique AOW weapons I will just stick to black powder cannons and potato guns.

johnnyskid · 01-12-2009, 11:32 PM

Basically if you even see a full auto in a storage or any firearm /parts that fires more than one round per squeeze " run " .. run away. If you stop running except to pay at least a $10,000 fine and ten years in Federal prison. What you do get is to loose your rights for life and walk away bowl-legged with hemorrhoids. Last time I heard you don't even get paroled in Federal.

No such thing as a per-ban fully auto. You must have the written consent from the Federal Government and can only be used for Government controlled consent purposes.

But tell that to the criminals...

crotalus01 · 02-02-2009, 02:37 PM

There is no BATFE requirement for a registered NFA weapon to be available for inspection by BATFE agents - you are confusing the laws for NFA with the legal requirements for an FFL holder. You do, however, have to have the tax stamp with the weapon if you are ever asked about it by the authorities - otherwise they will confiscate it and hold it until ou prove you paid the tax on it.

Rimjob · 02-02-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rondog

I want to know more about how to get in on these "storage unit auctions"!!! How does one go about this? Yer gettin' me all excited here!

It aint hard Ron! Just go out and talk to the storage owners.. I know a guy who does it year round and sales it all on ebay.. He does pretty good too!

Usually they'll open the door to the unit but you can't step in until you offer and they accept. Hell I went w/ him one time and I think he got one whole unit for $75 or so and it was full of stereos tv's and a dirt bike that already ran! That's pretty good in my book. It's hard to believe the storage people didn't take it and sale it themselves but I guess it's too much work...

rondog · 02-02-2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rimjob

It's hard to believe the storage people didn't take it and sale it themselves but I guess it's too much work...

I'd bet there's a legal thing that prevents them from doing that. I'm currently renting a unit (paying more for storage than the crap that's in there is worth

), I'll have to talk to the manager and find out what the poop is on auctions. Just what I need, is a bunch of somebody else's crap. But, ya never know. I knew a guy once that bought a storage unit full of old Harley parts! They were probably hot though.

Rimjob · 02-04-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rondog

I'd bet there's a legal thing that prevents them from doing that. I'm currently renting a unit (paying more for storage than the crap that's in there is worth

)

Been there! i paid on one of those things for like 9 months after I moved one time (and it was a big expensive double unit) until finally I went up there and started going threw it all.. what was I thinking??. . I took that crap to the dump!!<--- should have done that to begin with!!

Chris61289 · 02-21-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rondog

I want to know more about how to get in on these "storage unit auctions"!!! How does one go about this? Yer gettin' me all excited here!

Storage unit auction are pretty amazing IMO. I went to one in SE Mich and won an auction on a unit. After going through some boxes I found a WWII Fallschirmjager combat uniform, jump smock, helmet and equipment someone had collected and apparently left there I guess. Everything except the smock turned out to be original. It goes pretty good with my Kar 98k.

Cyrano · 04-11-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rimjob

Usually they'll open the door to the unit but you can't step in until you offer and they accept. Hell I went w/ him one time and I think he got one whole unit for $75 or so and it was full of stereos tv's and a dirt bike that already ran! That's pretty good in my book. It's hard to believe the storage people didn't take it and sale it themselves but I guess it's too much work...

Twenty years ago there was a partnership in Brooklyn that did just that, Rimjob. They'd buy entire storage units and bring them to a warehouse-cum-sales room they had in DUMBO, spread the stuff out, and on Saturdays they'd auction the stuff off. They also bought the apartment and house contents of old folks who died intestate and did the same thing.

I was starting over after a forced career change and a divorce that left me not far from owning the clothes I stood up in and little else when Her Imperial Majesty and I got together. We didn't have much money but we knew how to squeeze our quarters until the eagles squawked. We furnished our first apartment from that auction house.

I remember after our first auction - we didn't have a car yet - we brought back a room size Axminster carpet, a complete set of Mikasa china, some pots and pans, a set of stainless flatware and a boxful of crystal glasses on the New York City subway, including having to change trains at Grand Central, taking the Times Square shuttle across to Times Square Station, and then taking the 1 train north, with only one of those little old lady 2 wheeled grocery carts (which we also bought there) to help, plus a 5 block walk at the end of it with all the booty. I think we spent about $200 that first time out. We still have the Mikasa china and some of the glassware.

But about a year after we moved out of New York City the partners gave up on the auction end of the business. Apparently they decided it was more trouble than it was worth to them. I gather these days that most of the people who do these buy-a-pig-in-a-poke storage unit sales go either straight to eBay or split the contents between a brick & mortar shop, the dump and eBay, depending on what they find when they clear it out.

12-09-2008, 03:10 PM	#1
travisg96 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Springfield, Oregon Posts: 369	Class III question Ok, so this may not all pertain to class III weapons but I will start there. I like to attend storage unit auctions. Usually they are pieced out and I have seen firearms come out of them. Sometimes they are sold as a unit and basically are unopened before the auction. Question 1 is if I was to purchase one of these unopened units and in emptying it was to find a class III weapon, what do I do? It will not be registered to me. Can I have it transfered to me, or can I sell it to a class III dealer? No this has not happened to me, but I have seen some pretty strange things come out of storage units. Question 2, regards to assult weapons not specifically class III, I think the ban is not in effect right now but how does the definiton work. If I put a thumbhole stock on it is it still considered a pistol grip? Or does it depend on how big the hole is. And what is the restriction of the 10 parts? From what I count it would take over ten parts to make a working gun or is this only apply to imported parts? So if(take the sear for example)I machine my own piece(or more likely have it done) is it no longer a imported piece? Question 3, I live in Oregon. It is legal to posses a silencer here. Can I legally build my own silencer and just have to register it with the ATF? I know that these are big questions so if anyone has a email for the atf dept that could answer them I will just ask them.

12-09-2008, 06:37 PM	#2
Otter Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 992 Images: 6	Oregon allows class 3 weapons to be registered in compliance with federal law, if you want a silencer, buy it from a title 2 manufacturer. If I bought the contents of a storage unit and found an automatic weapon I would call ATF and have them come get it. If it was a registered, pre 86 weapon, I may have a claim to ownership and would ask ATF to transfer it to me. Oregon doesn't have restrictions on "Assault Weapons," there is no assault weapon ban in effect right now on the federal level. __________________ Life is too important to be taken seriously.

12-09-2008, 07:04 PM	#3
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness. Unit 13 Posts: 11,315 Images: 2	The first thing is , I doubt that you will find a legally owned Class 3 weapon in a storage unit, because it would be a violation of ATF ownership rules to have it stored there...It has to be stored in a safe and under the direct control of the owner, and available for inspection to ATF officials at any time...second if you did find one and took "Possession" of it, you would be in violation of Possessing an Illegal weapon Immediately. The Weapon is registered to a particular owner and only that owner , or his heirs if he dies. You would not be able to own that weapon if you wanted to. Guns like that fall under "special Items" where the Government is concerned , not like household belongings that may be found in storage units... Beware ! __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

12-24-2008, 05:25 PM	#5
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness. Unit 13 Posts: 11,315 Images: 2	There are more than Likely lots of unregistered weapons out there...They are all ILLEGAL to own, but that doesnt stop people that have them stored in attics and closets...The registration period was so short and hardly advertised that working Ex-soldiers that had war trophies never knew about it until it was too late to get them Registered legally in 1968. Unless the BATFE does another amnesty period for registration, those guns will remain illegal to possess and own. There are people that have been pushing for another amnesty without much success so far. Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

12-26-2008, 09:52 AM	#7
Otter Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 992 Images: 6	In Massachusetts, a library had a german machine gun on display. The gun was captured by Sargeant York during one of the world wars. The library wanted to sell the machine gun to raise money and found out it had never been registered. It was confiscated by BATF and is locked away in an evidence room awaiting destruction, There is no provision in the law to allow the weapon to be registered or allow it to be welded or otherwise disabled. Unless ATF puts it in their collection, it will be destroyed. __________________ Life is too important to be taken seriously.

12-24-2008, 03:21 PM	#4
travisg96 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Springfield, Oregon Posts: 369	Just another thought but the NFA was enacted in 1934, so it was possible there were NFA weapons in existence that were never registered since they were owned before the law came in effect? I know it would be almost imposible to prove this but they may still be out there.

12-26-2008, 02:07 AM	#6
travisg96 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Springfield, Oregon Posts: 369	That sucks, Have a friend who says the feds came and took his grandpa's gun he had brought back from WWII.

12-26-2008, 10:54 AM	#9
travisg96 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Springfield, Oregon Posts: 369	There is a BMG that was salvaged form a plane that crashed in the desert outside Nellis Air Force Base in 43 that is on display at a rest near the base. May not be the same problem seing as how it is at a state rest stop. Not that it would be worth anything it was burried in the dunes for 40 years so it is certainly not useable.

12-30-2008, 06:15 PM	#10
travisg96 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Springfield, Oregon Posts: 369	I love how vague these rulings are written. They could be interpreted any way that suits them. Almost anything could be part of a NFA item. So if I designed a silencer that used bottlcaps and rubber hose washers as baffles and submit it to the ATF for approval and they determine it works then bottle caps and rubber hose washers are suddenly part of a NFA item and must have a $200 tax on eack one. Think of the implacations to industry.

12-30-2008, 06:51 PM	#11
rondog Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 3,296	I want to know more about how to get in on these "storage unit auctions"!!! How does one go about this? Yer gettin' me all excited here! __________________ I child-proofed my house, but they still keep getting in!

01-06-2009, 12:12 AM	#12
sharps_74 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 28	I can tell you that the ATF does make exception for museums and such. You can build your own suppressor. You must FIRST fill out the paperwork, be finger printed, photographed, get your local CLEO to sign off and send the ATF a check for $200. Wait for your paperwork to come back BEFORE you start your build. In some cases your CLEO will refuse to sign off on your form. If that is the case then there are legal ways around it. They can not come check up on your suppressor nor how it's stored. You are responsible for keeping it from getting into unregistered hand just as you are with any title 2 weapon. Folks seem to think that it's hard to get a legal suppressor, it's not. I got my paperwork back from them in about 45 days. If it's legal in your state to hunt using a suppressor as it is here in Arkansas, you'll find that hunting is more fun with a weapon that won't hurt your ears. See if this helps you with your questions http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.e...st/nfa_faq.txt

01-06-2009, 01:19 PM	#13
travisg96 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Springfield, Oregon Posts: 369	As far as storage unit auctions go watch your local paper. If there is a nickle ad or money saver type free add paper they usually use those. Talk to the managers at local mini storage units. If you live close to a large area the frequency might be better. I am not saying that I have seen a lot of guns come out of units but I have seen them. I have seen locked safes be sold at auctions also and some places just auction off the unit as a piece and who knows what you may find(I know that can be a scary thought). Just go, be prepared for the weather, bring a folding chair and have a fair amount of money to spend(over $100 usually). I saw a locked roll away tool box(I think it was one of the ones from Costco) that ended up being full of name brand(think Mac and Snap on) tools for under $1000. As for my want for a supressor I have decided it is not worth it. I wanted to put one on my 9mm carbine but what I have read is that there is verry little gas escaping out the muzzle after pushing the slug down a 16" barrel. It already is quieter than a 22. And I suppose if I want to have any unique AOW weapons I will just stick to black powder cannons and potato guns.

01-12-2009, 11:32 PM	#14
johnnyskid Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: ozark MO Posts: 62 Images: 7	Basically if you even see a full auto in a storage or any firearm /parts that fires more than one round per squeeze " run " .. run away. If you stop running except to pay at least a $10,000 fine and ten years in Federal prison. What you do get is to loose your rights for life and walk away bowl-legged with hemorrhoids. Last time I heard you don't even get paroled in Federal. No such thing as a per-ban fully auto. You must have the written consent from the Federal Government and can only be used for Government controlled consent purposes. But tell that to the criminals...

02-02-2009, 02:37 PM	#15
crotalus01 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Memphis,Tennessee Posts: 17	There is no BATFE requirement for a registered NFA weapon to be available for inspection by BATFE agents - you are confusing the laws for NFA with the legal requirements for an FFL holder. You do, however, have to have the tax stamp with the weapon if you are ever asked about it by the authorities - otherwise they will confiscate it and hold it until ou prove you paid the tax on it.