FFL 1 ?'s Can't find on ATF Website

thaddy1978 · 01-12-2009, 04:31 PM

Hello there,

Still contemplating an FFL 01. Anyone out there have one? I read somewhere that one guy stated to do it and realized how much of a pain it was trying to buy and sell and decided not to.

Can I be a 'kitchen table' dealer? Does the ATF have issues about where you do your business? Like if perhaps I wanted to do an online thing?

Is there a quota that needs to be filled in order to be called a business?

These are questions that I could not find info on the ATF's website, but had questions about through other things I have read or heard.

just_a_car · 01-14-2009, 07:20 AM

I have purchased from two seperate gentleman that ran their FFL 01 from the basement and garage of their houses, respectively. I don't think there's any limit to where the address of your business is located, but I don't know the laws to the letter.

Indy · 02-22-2009, 10:45 AM

I realize this reply is a month late...I apologize for my comment. The ATF seems to be looking more for a "storefront" to issue FFL 01s. I am part owner in a business, a gunshop, and they came in and checked out the building, took pictures, and questioned about storage and security. I am not sure about a FFL in a home, but I only speak from my experience. One of the questions asked, "Are you actively seeking outside business?".
I would suggest you call the ATF and ask. My experience has been great...the people I spoke with are very professional and courteous.
I hope you are successful.
Indy

crotalus01 · 03-14-2009, 10:54 PM

You really dont want to be an FFL running your business out of your home. The BATFE has the right to "inspect" your place of business, and if that is your home, they can go into every room of your house, every closet, every chest of drawers, every cupboard, etc. The only way around this is if you have a dedicated room for your business that has NO access to the rest of your dwelling, say a garage that has only one entrance that is in no way connected to the rest of the house (i.e. if there is a door from the garage to the house it must be bricked up or otherwise made completely inaccessable). There are also storage/alarm/theft prevention requirements, etc.
I am NOT an FFL but I have a few friends who ran their business from home and gave up their license due to it being too much of a hassle. Also had one friend who was an SOT and almost got screwed because he was just doing transfers (only a few per year for friends) and the BATFE said he was in it just to collect MGs that would otherwise have been non-civilian transferable (he got off, but barely and it was a hassle that cost a bit of $$$).

Chris · 03-17-2009, 09:25 AM

The days of having a home FFL are over. Not saying it's impossible, but for the majority of people are done with. You can no longer have a wooden building and so on. They will be looking very heavily into the security of the firearms, which they should be.

I'm going to make a few blanket statments:
-Most people are not trying to do it for a business but a hobby
-Most people don't have the capital to truly secure the firearms
-Most people don't take the time to realize what it actually entails giving to ATF (searching your home if they truly feel necessary.)

FFL's are not worth it unless you plan to truly run through money and possibly your sanity.

GlockMeister · 03-17-2009, 10:24 AM

It's especially hard to start when manufactures want you to buy $25,000 and even $50,000 thousand in inventory to start up then buy $12,000 or so each month after. Something like that is what I was told a while back. I think that was to become a Kimber dealer as well as if he wanted to be an authorized dealer of Sigs and others.

But yea, the days of the basement FFL or home FFL are over is right. You must now have a store front.

ar10 · 06-14-2009, 12:26 AM

FFL's are not issued for home addresses. I am pretty confident this has not changed. Years back they used to do this. You would not want one if one could be gotten. Former gun dealer/pawn broker.

lcjones · 07-30-2009, 05:04 PM

A word or two from a FFL 01. It was not hard in the residential area I live in because they said just keep it quite. I can have no signs and cannot advertise. I do give out business cards and word of mouth is great. I am gunsmith, sell my own guns and do a lot of internet transfers. ATF rules are followed to the best of my ability and the inspectors I have had have been great. I have separate building on my 2.5 acres and it is totally dedicated, protected, and unnoticed. Caution, don't try the garage of your house. What is said above is correct about your entire house open to inspection.
lcjones

Sarge · 08-03-2009, 12:36 AM

NOT correkt about the garage! I have been an FFL/Class 3 for 33 yrs operating out of my garage. I have an interior door to the house. What is required is a seperate outdoor entrance w/o having to go thru the house. That entrance does not have to be used, it just has to be there. I put 1/2 after my house nr to cover the garage and its seperate outdoor entrance (Not the garage door altho that might(?) work).
All my deliveries are to the 1/2 address, but delivered to my front door. My inspections are with the batf agent coming in my front door and immediately into the garage thru the connecting door. My safes and everything are in the garage. In the event of an inspection in cold weather - the garage is not heated - I condescendingly allow them to come into the living room where it is warm.
I have never had a problem, nor any comments on this arrangement. Several years ago when they change several things and most "kitchen table dealers" quit I worked off of 3 6 month continuation letters because it took that long to get a county business lisc rammed thru the AH in the county who issued same. That lisc is permenent and does not require renewal so that problem is non recurring.
The zoning and business lisc requirement in some areas is what killed off many of the guys who dropped their lisc.
Sarge

01-12-2009, 04:31 PM	#1
thaddy1978 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The great Shenandoah Valley Posts: 333	FFL 1 ?'s Can't find on ATF Website Hello there, Still contemplating an FFL 01. Anyone out there have one? I read somewhere that one guy stated to do it and realized how much of a pain it was trying to buy and sell and decided not to. Can I be a 'kitchen table' dealer? Does the ATF have issues about where you do your business? Like if perhaps I wanted to do an online thing? Is there a quota that needs to be filled in order to be called a business? These are questions that I could not find info on the ATF's website, but had questions about through other things I have read or heard.

01-14-2009, 07:20 AM	#2
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 4,091	I have purchased from two seperate gentleman that ran their FFL 01 from the basement and garage of their houses, respectively. I don't think there's any limit to where the address of your business is located, but I don't know the laws to the letter. __________________ B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09 CETME Owners - Founder AK-47 owners - Member The Mosin Men - Member

03-17-2009, 09:25 AM	#5
Chris Site Founder Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,494 Images: 19 Blog Entries: 27	The days of having a home FFL are over. Not saying it's impossible, but for the majority of people are done with. You can no longer have a wooden building and so on. They will be looking very heavily into the security of the firearms, which they should be. I'm going to make a few blanket statments: -Most people are not trying to do it for a business but a hobby -Most people don't have the capital to truly secure the firearms -Most people don't take the time to realize what it actually entails giving to ATF (searching your home if they truly feel necessary.) FFL's are not worth it unless you plan to truly run through money and possibly your sanity. __________________ Rules \| Contributing Members No one has the right to deny my personal safety Please be descriptive in your thread titles! NRA Life Member

03-17-2009, 10:24 AM	#6
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 9,676	It's especially hard to start when manufactures want you to buy $25,000 and even $50,000 thousand in inventory to start up then buy $12,000 or so each month after. Something like that is what I was told a while back. I think that was to become a Kimber dealer as well as if he wanted to be an authorized dealer of Sigs and others. But yea, the days of the basement FFL or home FFL are over is right. You must now have a store front. __________________ "The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." "Edmond Burke"

06-14-2009, 12:26 AM	#7
ar10 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 64	FFL's are not issued for home addresses. I am pretty confident this has not changed. Years back they used to do this. You would not want one if one could be gotten. Former gun dealer/pawn broker. __________________ Lifetime Member NRA. Lifetime Member GWTA. Member Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.

02-22-2009, 10:45 AM	#3
Indy Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 337	I realize this reply is a month late...I apologize for my comment. The ATF seems to be looking more for a "storefront" to issue FFL 01s. I am part owner in a business, a gunshop, and they came in and checked out the building, took pictures, and questioned about storage and security. I am not sure about a FFL in a home, but I only speak from my experience. One of the questions asked, "Are you actively seeking outside business?". I would suggest you call the ATF and ask. My experience has been great...the people I spoke with are very professional and courteous. I hope you are successful. Indy

03-14-2009, 10:54 PM	#4
crotalus01 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Memphis,Tennessee Posts: 17	You really dont want to be an FFL running your business out of your home. The BATFE has the right to "inspect" your place of business, and if that is your home, they can go into every room of your house, every closet, every chest of drawers, every cupboard, etc. The only way around this is if you have a dedicated room for your business that has NO access to the rest of your dwelling, say a garage that has only one entrance that is in no way connected to the rest of the house (i.e. if there is a door from the garage to the house it must be bricked up or otherwise made completely inaccessable). There are also storage/alarm/theft prevention requirements, etc. I am NOT an FFL but I have a few friends who ran their business from home and gave up their license due to it being too much of a hassle. Also had one friend who was an SOT and almost got screwed because he was just doing transfers (only a few per year for friends) and the BATFE said he was in it just to collect MGs that would otherwise have been non-civilian transferable (he got off, but barely and it was a hassle that cost a bit of $$$).

07-30-2009, 05:04 PM	#8
lcjones Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1	A word or two from a FFL 01. It was not hard in the residential area I live in because they said just keep it quite. I can have no signs and cannot advertise. I do give out business cards and word of mouth is great. I am gunsmith, sell my own guns and do a lot of internet transfers. ATF rules are followed to the best of my ability and the inspectors I have had have been great. I have separate building on my 2.5 acres and it is totally dedicated, protected, and unnoticed. Caution, don't try the garage of your house. What is said above is correct about your entire house open to inspection. lcjones Last edited by lcjones; 07-30-2009 at 05:07 PM. Reason: spelling

08-03-2009, 12:36 AM	#9
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 390	NOT correkt about the garage! I have been an FFL/Class 3 for 33 yrs operating out of my garage. I have an interior door to the house. What is required is a seperate outdoor entrance w/o having to go thru the house. That entrance does not have to be used, it just has to be there. I put 1/2 after my house nr to cover the garage and its seperate outdoor entrance (Not the garage door altho that might(?) work). All my deliveries are to the 1/2 address, but delivered to my front door. My inspections are with the batf agent coming in my front door and immediately into the garage thru the connecting door. My safes and everything are in the garage. In the event of an inspection in cold weather - the garage is not heated - I condescendingly allow them to come into the living room where it is warm. I have never had a problem, nor any comments on this arrangement. Several years ago when they change several things and most "kitchen table dealers" quit I worked off of 3 6 month continuation letters because it took that long to get a county business lisc rammed thru the AH in the county who issued same. That lisc is permenent and does not require renewal so that problem is non recurring. The zoning and business lisc requirement in some areas is what killed off many of the guys who dropped their lisc. Sarge __________________ Calling illegal aliens undocumented immigrants is like calling drug dealers unlicensed pharmacists!