Class III legal question about 1986

TargetGunFan · 01-31-2009, 11:22 PM

If you have a pre-86 ban receiver, that was full auto, or converted to full auto, and you have the tax stamp. Can you buy replacement parts for the trigger assembly that will retain full auto functionality, or are you limited to use pre-86 part to repair it also?

My class 3 dealer couldn't answer this (he sells about 90% to LE and his private owner business is pretty much suppressors and SBR only), and the ATF gave us two different answers, maybe, and no. God love em....

GlockMeister · 01-31-2009, 11:58 PM

I would think, even though the tax stamp for that item has been/was paid, you'd still have to have a Class III license to both own/have in your possession, use and or get parts for.

I mean, to even by parts for a class III firearm, you have to have a class III license right? And I don't believe it matters what year the item is or the parts are from.

The other thing that came to mind and I wanted to ask you if it had come up was, in talking to the class III dealer you know, or if one of the 1 of the 2 ATF answers made mention of it? The question is, did the term Grandfather Clause happen to come up, or be or get used? I don't know if that would make a difference or not. But since your question is about something from 1986, it might? But I honestly don't know if anything was or can be "Grandfathered"? And if it was or can be, I'm sure it would pertain only to what one already had, providing tax stamp was paid, not to any new or used class III part they might need, want or get.

I only say any of this based on questions I've asked a few I know who have class III licenses and from memory from websites I've checked out. By this I mean one night after seeing the Knob Creek Hill machine gun shoot on The Shooting Gallery, I got curious and googled "Class III firearm license information" and one place I'd found had a FAQ section. I can't remember for sure, but this might have been one of the sites I saw some of the info. I don't feel like reading it all again to know for sure. lol

rec.guns FAQ: II.F.1. General Guide to Class 3 Weapons

Not sure, but you might find some answers here also?

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/fflc/index.htm

Here's one other site. It looks interesting.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/how-to...-class-3-fire/

TargetGunFan · 02-01-2009, 01:22 AM

Basiclly here is the situation. I found a broken pre-86 M16 that is owned by a trust. The guy doesn't want it and is offering me an amazing price on it. Since it is a trust he can just make me the Granator of the trust for a fee and the tax stamp stays with it, this is one of the two major advantages to having a trust own the tax stamps and weapons. However if I can't repair it to full auto, its basicly an old broke ar-15 at that point and not worth nearly what he is asking.

GlockMeister · 02-01-2009, 01:47 AM

You know, Knight Rider might be able to help you or know where to find the answer?

But I did find and read one thing in another thread on G&G. Not sure if it helps or not?

This is from wjkuleck, a G&G member. "There's no "Class 3 License," unless you are going into the business of NFA firearm sales. To purchase a Class 3 item requires completing the specific requirements & forms for that item & paying the tax stamp. This process is repeated for each NFA item you acquire."

I would think a transfer would require the same thing. No matter how it's obtained. And I'd also think that not doing so, if caught, would or could mean prison and losing rights. Seeing as how they are so regulated and if it were me, I wouldn't want to put my freedom or my 2nd Amendment rights on the line.

Read the other post after wjkuleck in the same thread. It might help also?

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/cla...wbie-help.html (Class III Newbie HELP)

I'd also check other threads in the Class III forum and see if maybe a similar question didn't come up or already get asked and answered or see if anything else said might help or not?

GlockMeister · 02-01-2009, 01:52 AM

Also, here's a thread KnightRider posted. Has some links in it.

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/cla...class-3-a.html (Anyone Intrested in class 3)

Otter · 02-01-2009, 06:59 AM

As long as you own a registered full auto, you can buy parts for it. If you have an M16, you can buy M16 parts brand new, just keep in mind that the parts have to be M16 parts, You can't get away with having G3 parts on the shelf.
Also keep in mind that any weapon that is converted after November 1986 becomes a post 86 weapon regardless of when the receiver was made.

Mooseman684 · 02-01-2009, 11:59 AM

If you have a pre-86 Registered M16 , it is fully transferrable.
The LOWER reciever is the Machine gun...ONLY. no other parts like internals, barrel, Bolt, Uppers,stocks etc. are considered to be anything more than parts.
Any dealer in Machine guns can tell you this as it is in black and white in the rules and regulations.
Once a Machinegun , Always a Machinegun in the Eyes of the BATFE.
So it can never be considered to be an AR-15...

The only part I dont know about is the transfer of the Trust...and whether or not you would have to pay the 200 dollar tax...I dont think you will.

What is Broken ???
Rich

TargetGunFan · 02-01-2009, 02:34 PM

The trigger group is broken according to the guy, I am going to meet him Tuesday and inspect the lower. If the lower is in good shape I think I will have him transfer the trust and then I will fix it up. Apparently Bushmaster can sell me an M16 trigger group with a photocopy of the tax stamp so I think this is going to be awesome.

Mooseman684 · 02-01-2009, 03:55 PM

Sarco will sell you M16 Parts without any Problems or info needed.
When I worked for a Class 2 Mfgr...we would just order them up.

Rich

01-31-2009, 11:22 PM	#1
TargetGunFan Cardinal Richlieu Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 2,460 Blog Entries: 2	Class III legal question about 1986 If you have a pre-86 ban receiver, that was full auto, or converted to full auto, and you have the tax stamp. Can you buy replacement parts for the trigger assembly that will retain full auto functionality, or are you limited to use pre-86 part to repair it also? My class 3 dealer couldn't answer this (he sells about 90% to LE and his private owner business is pretty much suppressors and SBR only), and the ATF gave us two different answers, maybe, and no. God love em....

01-31-2009, 11:58 PM	#2
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 9,676	I would think, even though the tax stamp for that item has been/was paid, you'd still have to have a Class III license to both own/have in your possession, use and or get parts for. I mean, to even by parts for a class III firearm, you have to have a class III license right? And I don't believe it matters what year the item is or the parts are from. The other thing that came to mind and I wanted to ask you if it had come up was, in talking to the class III dealer you know, or if one of the 1 of the 2 ATF answers made mention of it? The question is, did the term Grandfather Clause happen to come up, or be or get used? I don't know if that would make a difference or not. But since your question is about something from 1986, it might? But I honestly don't know if anything was or can be "Grandfathered"? And if it was or can be, I'm sure it would pertain only to what one already had, providing tax stamp was paid, not to any new or used class III part they might need, want or get. I only say any of this based on questions I've asked a few I know who have class III licenses and from memory from websites I've checked out. By this I mean one night after seeing the Knob Creek Hill machine gun shoot on The Shooting Gallery, I got curious and googled "Class III firearm license information" and one place I'd found had a FAQ section. I can't remember for sure, but this might have been one of the sites I saw some of the info. I don't feel like reading it all again to know for sure. lol rec.guns FAQ: II.F.1. General Guide to Class 3 Weapons Not sure, but you might find some answers here also? http://www.atf.gov/firearms/fflc/index.htm Here's one other site. It looks interesting. http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/how-to...-class-3-fire/ __________________ "The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." "Edmond Burke" Last edited by GlockMeister; 02-01-2009 at 01:27 AM.

02-01-2009, 01:47 AM	#4
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 9,676	You know, Knight Rider might be able to help you or know where to find the answer? But I did find and read one thing in another thread on G&G. Not sure if it helps or not? This is from wjkuleck, a G&G member. "There's no "Class 3 License," unless you are going into the business of NFA firearm sales. To purchase a Class 3 item requires completing the specific requirements & forms for that item & paying the tax stamp. This process is repeated for each NFA item you acquire." I would think a transfer would require the same thing. No matter how it's obtained. And I'd also think that not doing so, if caught, would or could mean prison and losing rights. Seeing as how they are so regulated and if it were me, I wouldn't want to put my freedom or my 2nd Amendment rights on the line. Read the other post after wjkuleck in the same thread. It might help also? http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/cla...wbie-help.html (Class III Newbie HELP) I'd also check other threads in the Class III forum and see if maybe a similar question didn't come up or already get asked and answered or see if anything else said might help or not? __________________ "The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." "Edmond Burke" Last edited by GlockMeister; 02-01-2009 at 01:51 AM.

02-01-2009, 01:52 AM	#5
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 9,676	Also, here's a thread KnightRider posted. Has some links in it. http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/cla...class-3-a.html (Anyone Intrested in class 3) __________________ "The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." "Edmond Burke"

02-01-2009, 06:59 AM	#6
Otter Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 992 Images: 6	As long as you own a registered full auto, you can buy parts for it. If you have an M16, you can buy M16 parts brand new, just keep in mind that the parts have to be M16 parts, You can't get away with having G3 parts on the shelf. Also keep in mind that any weapon that is converted after November 1986 becomes a post 86 weapon regardless of when the receiver was made. __________________ Life is too important to be taken seriously.

02-01-2009, 01:22 AM	#3
TargetGunFan Cardinal Richlieu Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 2,460 Blog Entries: 2	Basiclly here is the situation. I found a broken pre-86 M16 that is owned by a trust. The guy doesn't want it and is offering me an amazing price on it. Since it is a trust he can just make me the Granator of the trust for a fee and the tax stamp stays with it, this is one of the two major advantages to having a trust own the tax stamps and weapons. However if I can't repair it to full auto, its basicly an old broke ar-15 at that point and not worth nearly what he is asking.

02-01-2009, 11:59 AM	#7
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness. Unit 13 Posts: 11,305 Images: 2	If you have a pre-86 Registered M16 , it is fully transferrable. The LOWER reciever is the Machine gun...ONLY. no other parts like internals, barrel, Bolt, Uppers,stocks etc. are considered to be anything more than parts. Any dealer in Machine guns can tell you this as it is in black and white in the rules and regulations. Once a Machinegun , Always a Machinegun in the Eyes of the BATFE. So it can never be considered to be an AR-15... The only part I dont know about is the transfer of the Trust...and whether or not you would have to pay the 200 dollar tax...I dont think you will. What is Broken ??? Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-01-2009, 02:34 PM	#8
TargetGunFan Cardinal Richlieu Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 2,460 Blog Entries: 2	The trigger group is broken according to the guy, I am going to meet him Tuesday and inspect the lower. If the lower is in good shape I think I will have him transfer the trust and then I will fix it up. Apparently Bushmaster can sell me an M16 trigger group with a photocopy of the tax stamp so I think this is going to be awesome.

02-01-2009, 03:55 PM	#9
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness. Unit 13 Posts: 11,305 Images: 2	Sarco will sell you M16 Parts without any Problems or info needed. When I worked for a Class 2 Mfgr...we would just order them up. Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!