how good is good enough?

[wunhunglo]

Wing, it's Scotland, WIND!

[Wingwiper]

Wun

Learn to read the MIRAGE, you will fair much better.

Put your spotting scope slightly out of focus and look for the mirage at about halfway to the target. The mirage will give you a correction at the height the bullet is at. We shot Matches in Ft Benning where the flags on each end of the Target Birm were showing two different directions and speeds and the flags at the 300 were doing the same and the flags at the 600 were giving even different info. The mirage was consistant and gave better results. If it is dancing straight up, wind value is ZERO, laying flat and moving right to left, depending on the speed of the mirage, it is Right Clicks. Don't even need a bright day to see it. Maybe Scotland is too FOGGY and you'll never see it, but give it a try.. It worked very well for my team for years and I would hear other team coaches yelling "12 right" and our coach would say "Straight a way"

Sorry! Hope this didn't come across as too whatever, just something we learned and wanted to pass it on to someone who could use it, if you already aren't....

[wunhunglo]

I'll try it when I'm not in competitions. We're not allowed spotting scopes for service rifle comps and what's a coach??


Ps If I was a competitors coach, I would shout BS too, wouldn't you?

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by wunhunglo

I'll try it when I'm not in competitions. We're not allowed spotting scopes for service rifle comps and what's a coach??


Ps If I was a competitors coach, I would shout BS too, wouldn't you?

Service Rifle doesn't have spotting scopes???? What yardage are you shooting? You are not allowed a 20X scope for sight corrections?
Are you allowed a set of Bio s? Use them instead, the mirage is 100% fool proof. Falgs are usually several feet above the ground and some are above the brush and trees and the bullet is closer to the ground and the mirage will give you better sight correcting info over the flags.

We had coaches on Team Days.

BS? do you mean Bull Sh-T??? I am not sure what you meant by that sentence. Sorry. I just got what you meant... No! they didn't shout out intentional BS, we could swing the scope over and see where they had OVER compensated for the wind and had flyers.Our Team was a Great team and we gained our stardom by doing things others didn't think of doing and the mirage was only one. Give it some serious attention, you will be glad you did.

[Cyrano]

goodsteel, I'll offer you just one bit of advice, that I got from Ricky Nelson:

"Well, it's all tight now; I've learned my lesson well;
"If you can't please everyone, you've got to please yourself."

Given the state of my eyes even after laser surgery going on 10 years ago (I'm mortified that I can't even see the black at 100 meters reliably over iron sights), I'd be ecstatic with 1 MOA groups. And wringing them out of a .30-30 lever action! Man, that takes patience and discipline!

Personally, I think you're ready to shoot in competition, if you choose to. I never had that urge in shooting; I much prefer going up against a set standard. That's my idea of fun. But that's me, not you. Find yourself a local match and give it a whirl if you think you and your pet rifle are ready. You may like it; you might not. But there is only one way to find out. "Do. Or do not. There is no try."

[wunhunglo]

Wing.
Unfortunately our civilian service rifle competitions do not allow use of spotting scopes or optics and competitions are usually run on a gallery range at 100-600 metres, though we run some competitions on a 50-400 metre electronic target range. Service rifle as used in the field. Our military are allowed to use their service optics but of course, with our draconian laws, we civilians cannot compete with them on level terms, we are not allowed semi-autos. We do however run separate class comps for rifles with optical sights.
Like you guys, coaches would only be there on large team events, usually on a national/international scale and I haven't competed in team events since my Army days.

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by wunhunglo

Wing.
Unfortunately our civilian service rifle competitions do not allow use of spotting scopes or optics and competitions are usually run on a gallery range at 100-600 metres, though we run some competitions on a 50-400 metre electronic target range. Service rifle as used in the field. Our military are allowed to use their service optics but of course, with our draconian laws, we civilians cannot compete with them on level terms, we are not allowed semi-autos. We do however run separate class comps for rifles with optical sights.
Like you guys, coaches would only be there on large team events, usually on a national/international scale and I haven't competed in team events since my Army days.

Time for Digital Zoom Glasses.
How do they expect you to be able to fairly see your groups at 600 w/o some sort of bio or optics? That seems to be totally against the purpose of using spotters, if the shooter is unable to see them and make adjustments from them. Do they Pull and Mark after each shot, on the 400, 500 and 600?? what size spotters? Damn, you are at a disadvantage..

[wunhunglo]

Hi Wing,
Must be big difference between our service rifle matches and your'n. Our service Rifle competitions are geared for combat style shooting with a service rifle usually with a set number of shots on a set number of exposures at certain distances and only hits on target scored and quite often with a ""mad minute" finale in which you shoot as many rounds off at the target as possible.
No spotters are used so no point having spotting scopes.
With the Electronic Target Ranges (ETR & IBSR) and the targets set to fall when hit, life is a bit easier.
Just to make it interesting they quite often do a "Gun Run", starting at 600 and so many rounds at each distance down to 100 m. Rifle version of the Machine gun runs.
We also do some Service Rifle Match comps same as your talking about, but to me that is just Target Rifle shooting using a service rifle instead of a target Rifle.

[JC506]

Its the shooter not the rifle i won my first competition when i was 12 600 yards 8mm Mauser iron sights. Keep parcticing try using iron sights before you try to mess with a scope.But if your eye sight isnt that well(15-20) I would just get the mil dot scope and put it on the 700. I dont know what you mean by good enough because different competitions have their different skills if you want to compete in the 100 then you are set. If you want to go higher then you need alot of practice because in my levle people can do a 2'' group at 1760 with 270,8mm,30-06,50cals etc. But keep going and hope to see you out there

[Wingwiper]

Wun

We had that type of match as well in our Combat Infantry Trophy matches. We did a two mile run first, with full LBE and full Canteens and then came in and loaded mags. We ran to the first yard line and fired shots onto the target where each hit was scored a point, times the first number of the yard line, then we would run down to the next yard line and do it again. Sounds easy....but in Ft Benning it got to 110 degrees at times and it was all you could do was to load them mags.
Our Precision Matches were for points and Vs and spotting scopes were allowed. Your score was based on where you hit in the target and nothing less than a 3 was counted, 2s were considered MISSES. Those were the FUn but nerve wracking matches, because of silly mistakes could cost you a ton of points. Team day the coach had the scope because on the 4, 5 and 6 we would pair fire in Block time. Coach would give the calls to each shooter and shooter would fire, so the Team Score was based as much or more on the ability of the coach as it was the shooters. Individual matches, NO COACHES and you did it all yourself and were able to earn your NRA points for Bronze, Silver and Gold (Distinguished) Achievements.
Match is done differently now and don't really know the procedures. We use to start on the 100 Off Hand and go back to the 400 and some of the Higher level matches we went to the 5 and 600 as well. In those days, matches were won sometimes by mere V counts. After a week of shooting, we won the Aggregate match by 2 points.

[wunhunglo]

Hi Wing, I do more service type shooting now as a civilian than I ever did in the mob. The only thing I came close to winning was a Light Machine Gun run with the L4 (7.62 Bren), where myself & partner came in 2nd one year. That gun got heavy at the end of the run and the final target!!

[George H]

Just a quick 2 cents. worlds record at 100 and 200 yards measures in .0000 over a 22 or 6MM whole. last I saw was the 22 ppc at 100 and 6MM ppc at 200. Actually .375 is very good for most of us,so if you want to win.Takes skill,and luck.

[billy]

i am competing in cowboy silhouette tomorrow morning.
i am always dead last.
i really like it tho.......
i must be a glutton for punishment.
and i get to use my really cool levergun.

[wunhunglo]

Billy,
Keep practising, one day you might come in only second last!!

As long as you're having fun!!

[338RemUltraMag]

goodsteel,
it is very hard to win bench competitions with standard equiptment, but it is not impossible. I shoot a .223 WSSM from my stock Winchester Model 70 Stealth II at competition and at 300 yards I hold .153 inch goups. I am beating people with 4,000 dollar rifles and all I have done to the gun is put in a timey trigger. so don't be afraid to get out there and win. Oh also have fun

[daniel900]

You can shoot IBS factory

[Midas]

Originally Posted by billy

i am competing in cowboy silhouette tomorrow morning.
i am always dead last.
i really like it tho.......
i must be a glutton for punishment.
and i get to use my really cool levergun.

It's not about what place ya come in, it's about having fun, and learning a little bit while you are out there. Although, it IS nice to win every once in awhile

[billy]

mostly i just like to play with my really cool levergun...........

[sell33]

Originally Posted by 338RemUltraMag

goodsteel,
it is very hard to win bench competitions with standard equiptment, but it is not impossible. I shoot a .223 WSSM from my stock Winchester Model 70 Stealth II at competition and at 300 yards I hold .153 inch goups. I am beating people with 4,000 dollar rifles and all I have done to the gun is put in a timey trigger. so don't be afraid to get out there and win. Oh also have fun

those are impressive groups at 300...i would love to stretch my 223 wssm out like that but i have no range around further than 100 yds....plus i need a trigger job on mine also its a little stiff. i have no idea of any competitions around here at all or i would love to give it a shot also...of course i would need a better rifle first lol.

as to the original question i would say that is a pretty good group and it doesn't hurt anything to try competing....

[Jersey Jailer]

Goodsteel,
The only person you are competing against is you. I shoot high ower and my scors aren't very good in my opinion, but I still shoot sharpshooter-borderline expert, just not quite expert but I'm trying. If I could only get my fat arse into a good sitting position, I'd do better than kneeeling.

Go to te matches to just shoot and the comradery. Be prepared to get your agats crushed once the requlars get to know you if they don't already. I tookk a lot of heat for my first rifle an 1917 enfield correct grade with a bright shinny bore. Once I got the reloads down I started shooting high marksman scores and progressed, I don't really shoot much better with my M1, M1a, AR-10, or AR-15

Just go out to shoot and have fun, worry about your scores not anybody elses or your blood pressure will rise and you'll stress youself out.