Etiquette Question?

Sam Ruger · 03-30-2009, 01:13 AM

Today I went out to an "illegal" dump site to sight in my new scope. You know what I mean - tires, old Bar-B-Q's, and lawnmowers left on some farmer's property. It's a difficult area to sight in from because, beyond 25 yards, you're seldom at the same elevation as your target. Wind is another problem because it always blows from one of two direction, requiring you to change positions.

When I arrived, some other guy was there ahead of me. He had an expensive setup. His shooting bench had its own seat and, besides a craddle to rest on, the rifle (custom stock) had it's own bipod plus a 40mm scope. It was either a .22 or a .17 by the sound of it. I complimented him on it.

This guy immediately caused me problems because he was shooting cross wise against a steady 20 mph wind. I planned to shoot either into the wind or with it at my back, which put me 90 degrees to him. Rather than fire rounds across the front of him, I moved upwind and fired into the wind so that my rounds were away from him.

I observed him doing three things, all of which I disagreed with and all of which I kept my mouth shut on. This guy had a $ 1,000+ plus set up and yet, IMO, he didn't seem to know what he was doing. Here's what I saw:

1) He was ignoring the cross wind. If he was shooting a .17, this might be no big deal. But, if it was a .22, he was inviting trouble in setting his windage.

2) He was sighting in at only 25 yards. The setup he had would have hit from 300. Perhaps he reduced the range because of the wind or because, if had moved back another 25, it would have increased his elevation. Either way, 25 yards seems too little to me.

3) Although he should have seen his bullet holes in the target at only 25 yards from the target, he had a friend standing 10 yards in front of him and 15 yards from the target to spot his hits. The target was attached to a frigging stove! If the weapon was a .22, this guy was in danger of being hit by a ricochet.

I stood there and watched this circus without a word. Firing into the wind, I set my own windage and, when he left, I set my rest at 50 yards from his target (by using a prone rest versus his seated rest I avoided an elevation change). Firing into the same crosswind, I checked my elevation against his target. I had taped over his holes so that I could spot his shots from mine. He had done OK or even "pretty good" but I equaled or bettered all his shots at 50 yards, snuffing his $ 1000 setup with my $ 80 Marlin. The only reason I could do this was because he didn't know what he was doing, IMHO.

So here's my question.

Should I have opened my mouth and said something to him rather than keep quiet? Keeping my trap shut wasn't easy, especially when he had his friend ahead of him monitoring his hits.

I know that I would have liked the advice but others sometimes don't.

Did I do right or wrong?

ArkansasHunter · 03-30-2009, 02:14 AM

I maybe would of commented on the nice set up he had and maybe that would of opened the door for some repor.
It's possible the guy was new to shooting or was ignorant. Also haveing his friend stand so close to the target kinda tells this guy had no regards for safty and proper gun handling.
Maybe it was best that you said nothing...A.H

Iron_Colonel · 03-30-2009, 02:24 AM

I would have at least asked what that other guy is doing so close. Despite how obvious it might have been, at least commented on the situation. Maybe asked him if it was safe or not. Its hard to say. I guess if he would have got a ricochet that didn't hit him, he probably would have moved. Maybe they just lucked out.

billy · 03-30-2009, 06:23 AM

i would have kept quiet.
you did the right thing.

tappedandtagged · 03-30-2009, 08:42 AM

^ I agree. No use arguing with someone that you know has a loaded gun. lol

oldjarhead · 03-30-2009, 09:46 AM

The only thing I can consider he did wrong was to use his buddy as a close-in spotter. I would have simply mentioned the danger his buddy was in and left it at that. You did your part in the warning. His aiming in at 25 yds and through a cross-wind is his choice and I do not find that being uncommon. Perhaps he was practicing shooting with a cross-wind.
Safety is every shooters concern, technique is personal.

Hope you both had the farmer's permission to shoot on his land.

carlhuber · 03-31-2009, 09:21 AM

I'm very new to shooting and while I personally would have appreciated advice, I think you have to approach it gingerly. No one likes being subjected to a lecture from a know-it-all. It's very "thanks dad, yeah, whatever" if it comes across wrong. If you felt that he might have responded amiably to conversation, then saying something like "I don't want to step on your toes, but could I offer a piece of advice on your sighting-in method?" might broach the subject a little more agreeably.

The fact that he even knew about the place in the first place suggests he's been doing it for a while, or at least knows some people who have. He'll get as far as he wants to get, so it's no skin off your nose to ignore him. I do agree with the people above in that if you felt it was a situation where he might just be unwilling to listen then you wouldn't have been wrong to just ignore it altogether. Go with your gut.

147 Inches · 03-31-2009, 03:39 PM

I would have said something to the "other" idiot about standing in front of a gun.
Otherwise I would have kept my mouth shut.

trueblood352 · 03-31-2009, 05:23 PM

well i just joined gun and game but spent many years shooting with my dad and always covered safety while out in the field. when i was a teenager i was shooting my dads .22 comp pistal, it had a very light triger and when i handed the pistol to my friend to shoot, i handed it to him the proper maner but failed to tell him about the light triger and as he took the safty off while the gun was aimed towards the ground just the slightest touch of the triger sent a round into his foot. so since then i always would explane everything and i watch over my guns like a nagging woman. i think i would have complimented him on his outfit and just make small talk and develope a repor with the shooter. after this then i think you would be able to tell if the guy would have had an open mind or not. i would have prob told him about the safety issue at least no one likes to get hit by a stray. lol

billy · 04-01-2009, 08:21 AM

in reality i would have left and let them kill themselves.
toss some chlorine in the ol gene pool.
as long as i dont get hurt.
i dont care what grown men do.

Sav .250 · 04-01-2009, 09:56 AM

A "boot-leg" range" can be trying as there is no organization but you did
the right thing.
Next time try your local range...if you can.

samuel · 04-02-2009, 08:00 AM

If I saw someone doing things that were really endangering someone,I would say something even if it irritated them.From there on out,it's up to them. sam.

pajaro · 04-02-2009, 03:31 PM

i would have mentioned the danger of ricochets with a .22.... .22 rimfires will bounce all over the place and being a combat vet i don't like to see people bleed..... if the guy gave me lip, i'm outta there....... did my part, so to speak.....

wunhunglo · 04-02-2009, 04:31 PM

Always a problem when using "unofficial ranges". I would probably have said something, but I live in a different world.
Here's the first few of our Range Rules, mostly good old common sense:

RANGE RULES / GUIDELINES

SAFETY IS OUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY

1. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO INTERVENE SHOULD YOU VIEW WHAT YOU CONSIDER TO BE AN UNSAFE ACT.

2. THE RANGE OFFICER IS IN CHARGE.

3. ALL FIREARMS BEING TRANSPORTED TO AND FROM THE FIRING POINTS MUST BE CASED, HOLSTERED OR CARRIED IN THE APPROVED SAFE MANNER.

4. ALL GUN HANDLING / DRY FIRING / POINTING, ETC. MUST ONLY OCCUR AT THE FIRING POINTS OR THE DESIGNATED AREA, AND THEN ONLY WITH THE FIREARM POINTING DOWNRANGE.

5. NO HANDLING OF FIREARMS IS PERMITTED AFTER THE " WHISTLE, DOWN GUNS, CHANGE TARGETS CALL" OR WHEN ANY PERSON IS FORWARD OF THE FIRING POINTS.

6. ONLY SHOOTERS AND INSTRUCTORS SHOULD BE AT THE FIRING POINTS, SPECTATORS MUST KEEP BEHIND THE BARRIERS.

.22guy · 04-02-2009, 04:59 PM

I guess you'll have to get your money back from the range!

texnmidwest · 04-27-2009, 10:01 PM

I remember what my old grandpappy used to tell me in situations like these...."...Son, there is no arguing with ignorance, let's go."

Balrog57 · 04-29-2009, 02:46 AM

My daddy always used to tell me that a fish wouldn't get in trouble if it kept its mouth shut.

I myself might've -MIGHT'VE, mind you-said something which I might've-MIGHT'VE, mind you- ended up regretting. But, given the overall look of things such as you described, I feel in my gut that you did good.

However, if you go back out there in another week or two and find the same dolt, doing the same dolt-ish thing, why then, you might be feeling a bit more confrontational. Watch your six.

03-30-2009, 01:13 AM	#1
Sam Ruger Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 258	Etiquette Question? Today I went out to an "illegal" dump site to sight in my new scope. You know what I mean - tires, old Bar-B-Q's, and lawnmowers left on some farmer's property. It's a difficult area to sight in from because, beyond 25 yards, you're seldom at the same elevation as your target. Wind is another problem because it always blows from one of two direction, requiring you to change positions. When I arrived, some other guy was there ahead of me. He had an expensive setup. His shooting bench had its own seat and, besides a craddle to rest on, the rifle (custom stock) had it's own bipod plus a 40mm scope. It was either a .22 or a .17 by the sound of it. I complimented him on it. This guy immediately caused me problems because he was shooting cross wise against a steady 20 mph wind. I planned to shoot either into the wind or with it at my back, which put me 90 degrees to him. Rather than fire rounds across the front of him, I moved upwind and fired into the wind so that my rounds were away from him. I observed him doing three things, all of which I disagreed with and all of which I kept my mouth shut on. This guy had a $ 1,000+ plus set up and yet, IMO, he didn't seem to know what he was doing. Here's what I saw: 1) He was ignoring the cross wind. If he was shooting a .17, this might be no big deal. But, if it was a .22, he was inviting trouble in setting his windage. 2) He was sighting in at only 25 yards. The setup he had would have hit from 300. Perhaps he reduced the range because of the wind or because, if had moved back another 25, it would have increased his elevation. Either way, 25 yards seems too little to me. 3) Although he should have seen his bullet holes in the target at only 25 yards from the target, he had a friend standing 10 yards in front of him and 15 yards from the target to spot his hits. The target was attached to a frigging stove! If the weapon was a .22, this guy was in danger of being hit by a ricochet. I stood there and watched this circus without a word. Firing into the wind, I set my own windage and, when he left, I set my rest at 50 yards from his target (by using a prone rest versus his seated rest I avoided an elevation change). Firing into the same crosswind, I checked my elevation against his target. I had taped over his holes so that I could spot his shots from mine. He had done OK or even "pretty good" but I equaled or bettered all his shots at 50 yards, snuffing his $ 1000 setup with my $ 80 Marlin. The only reason I could do this was because he didn't know what he was doing, IMHO. So here's my question. Should I have opened my mouth and said something to him rather than keep quiet? Keeping my trap shut wasn't easy, especially when he had his friend ahead of him monitoring his hits. I know that I would have liked the advice but others sometimes don't. Did I do right or wrong?

03-30-2009, 02:14 AM	#2
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas. Posts: 17,215	I maybe would of commented on the nice set up he had and maybe that would of opened the door for some repor. It's possible the guy was new to shooting or was ignorant. Also haveing his friend stand so close to the target kinda tells this guy had no regards for safty and proper gun handling. Maybe it was best that you said nothing...A.H __________________ IN GOD WE TRUST NRA MEMBER

03-30-2009, 02:24 AM	#3
Iron_Colonel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Washington St. Posts: 3,281	I would have at least asked what that other guy is doing so close. Despite how obvious it might have been, at least commented on the situation. Maybe asked him if it was safe or not. Its hard to say. I guess if he would have got a ricochet that didn't hit him, he probably would have moved. Maybe they just lucked out. __________________ Mosin Nagant evangelist on a mission to convert YOU!

03-30-2009, 06:23 AM	#4
billy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca Posts: 19,730 Images: 10 Blog Entries: 161	i would have kept quiet. you did the right thing. __________________

03-30-2009, 09:46 AM	#6
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: MO Posts: 1,914	The only thing I can consider he did wrong was to use his buddy as a close-in spotter. I would have simply mentioned the danger his buddy was in and left it at that. You did your part in the warning. His aiming in at 25 yds and through a cross-wind is his choice and I do not find that being uncommon. Perhaps he was practicing shooting with a cross-wind. Safety is every shooters concern, technique is personal. Hope you both had the farmer's permission to shoot on his land. __________________ No war has ever been won by a politician!

03-30-2009, 08:42 AM	#5
tappedandtagged Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Southwest Arkansas Posts: 840 Blog Entries: 1	^ I agree. No use arguing with someone that you know has a loaded gun. lol

03-31-2009, 09:21 AM	#7
carlhuber Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 23	I'm very new to shooting and while I personally would have appreciated advice, I think you have to approach it gingerly. No one likes being subjected to a lecture from a know-it-all. It's very "thanks dad, yeah, whatever" if it comes across wrong. If you felt that he might have responded amiably to conversation, then saying something like "I don't want to step on your toes, but could I offer a piece of advice on your sighting-in method?" might broach the subject a little more agreeably. The fact that he even knew about the place in the first place suggests he's been doing it for a while, or at least knows some people who have. He'll get as far as he wants to get, so it's no skin off your nose to ignore him. I do agree with the people above in that if you felt it was a situation where he might just be unwilling to listen then you wouldn't have been wrong to just ignore it altogether. Go with your gut.

03-31-2009, 03:39 PM	#8
147 Inches Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 548	I would have said something to the "other" idiot about standing in front of a gun. Otherwise I would have kept my mouth shut.

03-31-2009, 05:23 PM	#9
trueblood352 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3	well i just joined gun and game but spent many years shooting with my dad and always covered safety while out in the field. when i was a teenager i was shooting my dads .22 comp pistal, it had a very light triger and when i handed the pistol to my friend to shoot, i handed it to him the proper maner but failed to tell him about the light triger and as he took the safty off while the gun was aimed towards the ground just the slightest touch of the triger sent a round into his foot. so since then i always would explane everything and i watch over my guns like a nagging woman. i think i would have complimented him on his outfit and just make small talk and develope a repor with the shooter. after this then i think you would be able to tell if the guy would have had an open mind or not. i would have prob told him about the safety issue at least no one likes to get hit by a stray. lol

04-01-2009, 08:21 AM	#10
billy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca Posts: 19,730 Images: 10 Blog Entries: 161	in reality i would have left and let them kill themselves. toss some chlorine in the ol gene pool. as long as i dont get hurt. i dont care what grown men do. __________________

04-01-2009, 09:56 AM	#11
Sav .250 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Central Fla. Posts: 561	A "boot-leg" range" can be trying as there is no organization but you did the right thing. Next time try your local range...if you can.

04-02-2009, 08:00 AM	#12
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 10,914	If I saw someone doing things that were really endangering someone,I would say something even if it irritated them.From there on out,it's up to them. sam.

04-02-2009, 03:31 PM	#13
pajaro Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: newcastle, california Posts: 334	i would have mentioned the danger of ricochets with a .22.... .22 rimfires will bounce all over the place and being a combat vet i don't like to see people bleed..... if the guy gave me lip, i'm outta there....... did my part, so to speak.....

04-02-2009, 04:31 PM	#14
wunhunglo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: currently "Sunny West Africa" Posts: 4,102	Always a problem when using "unofficial ranges". I would probably have said something, but I live in a different world. Here's the first few of our Range Rules, mostly good old common sense: RANGE RULES / GUIDELINES SAFETY IS OUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY 1. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO INTERVENE SHOULD YOU VIEW WHAT YOU CONSIDER TO BE AN UNSAFE ACT. 2. THE RANGE OFFICER IS IN CHARGE. 3. ALL FIREARMS BEING TRANSPORTED TO AND FROM THE FIRING POINTS MUST BE CASED, HOLSTERED OR CARRIED IN THE APPROVED SAFE MANNER. 4. ALL GUN HANDLING / DRY FIRING / POINTING, ETC. MUST ONLY OCCUR AT THE FIRING POINTS OR THE DESIGNATED AREA, AND THEN ONLY WITH THE FIREARM POINTING DOWNRANGE. 5. NO HANDLING OF FIREARMS IS PERMITTED AFTER THE " WHISTLE, DOWN GUNS, CHANGE TARGETS CALL" OR WHEN ANY PERSON IS FORWARD OF THE FIRING POINTS. 6. ONLY SHOOTERS AND INSTRUCTORS SHOULD BE AT THE FIRING POINTS, SPECTATORS MUST KEEP BEHIND THE BARRIERS.

04-02-2009, 04:59 PM	#15
.22guy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,221	I guess you'll have to get your money back from the range! __________________ My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban as soon as I take office.

04-27-2009, 10:01 PM	#16
texnmidwest Some People's kids.... Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South east Wisconsin Posts: 6,978	I remember what my old grandpappy used to tell me in situations like these...."...Son, there is no arguing with ignorance, let's go." __________________ never pass up a bathroom, never waste a ** , and never trust a fart.

04-29-2009, 02:46 AM	#17
Balrog57 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: over the hill & around the bend Posts: 185	My daddy always used to tell me that a fish wouldn't get in trouble if it kept its mouth shut. I myself might've -MIGHT'VE, mind you-said something which I might've-MIGHT'VE, mind you- ended up regretting. But, given the overall look of things such as you described, I feel in my gut that you did good. However, if you go back out there in another week or two and find the same dolt, doing the same dolt-ish thing, why then, you might be feeling a bit more confrontational. Watch your six.