Please help identify a pair of Civil War rifles

Bull Barrel · 01-23-2006, 07:23 PM

A friend has a couple of heirlooms he brought out to show me this weekend--a Sharps with a breech block design but apparently for black powder (squibs?) and percusion caps judging from the nipple on the block. It patent dates to 1863 (?)I believe--he is going to let me photgraph the details of the guns so I can do some research. The barrel bore looks to be .64 (or at least larger than .50)

The other rifle is a Springfield with a flip up breech enclosing a firing pin--but judging from the ram rod it must have used paper/metallic cartridge charges in the breech and muzzle loaded slugs. It has a small compartment on the side of the stock, apparently for lead ammo--it is too small for the .50 caliber cartridges it would've used. It has a patent date slightly later ('65?) and is a long long barrel (think Daniel Boone and the Kentucky Rifleman) like a Brown Bess--but more sophisticated.

I have seen Sharps replica buffalo guns and this is not that kind of action--a simple latch keepes the trigger guard, breech lever in place.

On the Springfield a spring-loaded latch keeps the breech flap in battery.

Any ideas about what kind of ammunition these weapons used and how they fit into the evolution of the modern cartridge rifle? I have some hunches but no real info. If possible I would like to share the images from the upcoming photos...

Thanks in advance

Mooseman684 · 01-23-2006, 09:34 PM

The first one sounds like a Sharps 1863 But I would need serial number to be more specific. they were .52 cal and a picture would Let me Peg it for you !
The second rifle sounds like a Trapdoor Springfield in 45-70 but again, I need a picture set to confirm. I will be happy to ID them with more info.
Rich

Shaun · 01-24-2006, 02:08 PM

can you get us pictures?

Bull Barrel · 01-31-2006, 07:30 PM

Sorry about the delay--I should have some photos and serial numbers and other pertinent marks this Friday--I really appreciate your reponses and am very curious to know more about these heirlooms of my friend Chad. He was telling me his grandfather used to buy these rifles for a buck or two at the local fleamarket and let him and his cousins play with the old (non-firing) rifles out in the yard.

If it's a .45-70 I wonder about the ram rod.. but anyway I will post what I can get this weekend--thanks to you both.

Mooseman684 · 01-31-2006, 10:05 PM

On the trapdoor Springfield, the ramrod was primarily used for cleaning, but in battle firing a lot of black powder which is nasty...Shells would get stuck and not extract so they had the rod to clear the weapon, they could run a patch down the barrel and clean it to continue firing. Ramrods primarily disappeared
with the invention of smokeless powder !
Rich

NRAJOE · 02-18-2006, 10:19 PM

Wheres them pics Bull?

01-23-2006, 07:23 PM	#1
Bull Barrel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia Posts: 239	Please help identify a pair of Civil War rifles A friend has a couple of heirlooms he brought out to show me this weekend--a Sharps with a breech block design but apparently for black powder (squibs?) and percusion caps judging from the nipple on the block. It patent dates to 1863 (?)I believe--he is going to let me photgraph the details of the guns so I can do some research. The barrel bore looks to be .64 (or at least larger than .50) The other rifle is a Springfield with a flip up breech enclosing a firing pin--but judging from the ram rod it must have used paper/metallic cartridge charges in the breech and muzzle loaded slugs. It has a small compartment on the side of the stock, apparently for lead ammo--it is too small for the .50 caliber cartridges it would've used. It has a patent date slightly later ('65?) and is a long long barrel (think Daniel Boone and the Kentucky Rifleman) like a Brown Bess--but more sophisticated. I have seen Sharps replica buffalo guns and this is not that kind of action--a simple latch keepes the trigger guard, breech lever in place. On the Springfield a spring-loaded latch keeps the breech flap in battery. Any ideas about what kind of ammunition these weapons used and how they fit into the evolution of the modern cartridge rifle? I have some hunches but no real info. If possible I would like to share the images from the upcoming photos... Thanks in advance __________________ Beautiful Noisy Deadly Machines--What's Not to Like? :assult:

01-23-2006, 09:34 PM	#2
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,693 Images: 2	The first one sounds like a Sharps 1863 But I would need serial number to be more specific. they were .52 cal and a picture would Let me Peg it for you ! The second rifle sounds like a Trapdoor Springfield in 45-70 but again, I need a picture set to confirm. I will be happy to ID them with more info. Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

01-24-2006, 02:08 PM	#3
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,592 Images: 1	can you get us pictures? __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

01-31-2006, 07:30 PM	#4
Bull Barrel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia Posts: 239	Sorry about the delay--I should have some photos and serial numbers and other pertinent marks this Friday--I really appreciate your reponses and am very curious to know more about these heirlooms of my friend Chad. He was telling me his grandfather used to buy these rifles for a buck or two at the local fleamarket and let him and his cousins play with the old (non-firing) rifles out in the yard. If it's a .45-70 I wonder about the ram rod.. but anyway I will post what I can get this weekend--thanks to you both. __________________ Beautiful Noisy Deadly Machines--What's Not to Like? :assult:

01-31-2006, 10:05 PM	#5
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,693 Images: 2	On the trapdoor Springfield, the ramrod was primarily used for cleaning, but in battle firing a lot of black powder which is nasty...Shells would get stuck and not extract so they had the rod to clear the weapon, they could run a patch down the barrel and clean it to continue firing. Ramrods primarily disappeared with the invention of smokeless powder ! Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-18-2006, 10:19 PM	#6
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,052 Images: 3	Wheres them pics Bull?