ATF inspections

jwr4 · 10-16-2006, 02:30 PM

Are C&R FFL holders inspected by the ATF on a regular basis? If so, how often? What does the inspetion consist of?

Chris · 10-16-2006, 03:33 PM

C&R don't have to have business hours like an FFL holders if I am not mistaken...so I believe they have the right to inspect you giving notification, and I am sure there is a claus saying they have the right to give you a suprise inspection.

Wait until you get the final word from a C&R holder...we have many on the board.

ruger22com · 10-16-2006, 10:43 PM

Make sure your bound book is 100% UP TO DATE, and you have a file of all your purchase invoices, and all weapons are locked in your safe, and it is a good idea to have them tagged to corespond with the bound book.

They are pretty cool around here (I get a yearly as an 01 FFL, and they usually give me 24 hours notice), but I have also heard about surprise inspections for both 01 and C&R holders.

I can tell you something a lot of people are unaware of....FFL 01 dealers have been pressuring the ATF to get tough on C&R holders, because a LOT of C&R holders think the license gives them the right to become gun dealers, buying mil surp weapons and selling them at gun shows or in the papers. Not to even mention straw sales on milsurps.....and the ATF is getting hot and heavy on this.

With the new laws that will get passed, a C&R holder who keeps sloppy records or violates the sales laws will the eligible for HEAFTY fines (Like $5,000 for any offense), where now all they can do is pull your license.

I don't think it would be unreal to see the C&R license done away with one day. I mean, if your just a collector and not a dealer, what would you need a license for anyway? Should collectors get wholesale prices?

But, not to scare you...just make sure your records are in order, and there is not much to worry about.

billy · 10-27-2006, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

C&R don't have to have business hours like an FFL holders if I am not mistaken...so I believe they have the right to inspect you giving notification, and I am sure there is a claus saying they have the right to give you a suprise inspection.

Wait until you get the final word from a C&R holder...we have many on the board.

ok here goes,this is from state laws and published ordinances-firearms. To insure compliance with record keeping requirements,any ATF officer may inspect the inventory and records of a licensed collector once during any 12-month period. the collector may elect to have the inspection performed at the ATF office nearest to the location where the inventory and records of the collector are maintained. so there it is straight from the horses mouth. hope that helped!

jwr4 · 10-27-2006, 02:28 PM

One poster suggested the ATF may ask for my bound book, etc. from when I held a license in the early 1980's. That was done when the license expired around 1981. The law clearly states when a business holding an FFL closes or the license expires, etc., the bound volume and 4473 forms must be sent to the ATF. Acutually I'm not sure about the bound volume, although it does seem I mailed that in. Not sure though. I do know the 4473 forms must be mailed in.

Another poster mentioned the ATF getting tough on C&R license holders who buy guns to resell at gun shows, etc. I have no problem with that. The law clearly states a C&R license doesn not allow a person to deal in buying and selling firearms. Break the law, face the consequences. These are the folks who make it tough on others. In my opinion, anyone selling modern firearms at a gun show should be required to post a copy of the FFL at their booth, and the sponsors of shows should require a copy of the FFL dealers license to be included with the application or cotract when a dealer applies for space at a gun show.

billy · 10-27-2006, 08:00 PM

c&r collectors arent in the gun business, or at least they better not be if they want to stay out of alot of expensive trouble. i collect guns , thats it.if i let my license expire i dont have to do anything. i just cant have anymore shipped to my home.

Apollyon67 · 10-28-2006, 10:21 PM

I still don't understand what part of "Shall not be Infringed" the gov't doesn't get.

ruger22com · 11-07-2006, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollyon67

I still don't understand what part of "Shall not be Infringed" the gov't doesn't get.

Remember these are the same public servents who promised us the federal income tax would end when world war one was paid for......just like the everready bunny...the taxes just keep going...and going...and going...and.....

ninwnc · 11-11-2006, 08:49 PM

I collect guns too, but I also shoot'em. If a gun proves to be inaccurate, I sell it and buy another. I don't believe this to be illeagle.

I don't buy guns to resale them, and I don't recieve wholesale pricing on the ones I do buy.

The C&R I have is for the conveniance of buying via the internet. There are no gun shops locally that sell military surplus rifles, so the internet is my only other option.

The local pawn shops that do have military surplus rifles price them like they think they are new Remingtons or Winchesters.

Nick

billy · 11-12-2006, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninwnc

I collect guns too, but I also shoot'em. If a gun proves to be inaccurate, I sell it and buy another. I don't believe this to be illeagle.

I don't buy guns to resale them, and I don't recieve wholesale pricing on the ones I do buy.

The C&R I have is for the conveniance of buying via the internet. There are no gun shops locally that sell military surplus rifles, so the internet is my only other option.

The local pawn shops that do have military surplus rifles price them like they think they are new Remingtons or Winchesters.

Nick

yup.. the gun shops here have wildly inflated prices! they dont get my $

Orlando · 11-13-2006, 06:01 AM

ATF can ask to inspect your bound books. Since you are not in a buisness just collecting you can request to do it somewhere besides your premisis. When you decide to not renew your C&R license you do not send bound book in to the ATF . So as you can see there is quit abit difference between a C&R and a O1FFL.

10-16-2006, 02:30 PM	#1
jwr4 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3	ATF inspections Are C&R FFL holders inspected by the ATF on a regular basis? If so, how often? What does the inspetion consist of?

10-16-2006, 03:33 PM	#2
Chris HMFIC Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,707 Images: 19 Blog Entries: 11	C&R don't have to have business hours like an FFL holders if I am not mistaken...so I believe they have the right to inspect you giving notification, and I am sure there is a claus saying they have the right to give you a suprise inspection. Wait until you get the final word from a C&R holder...we have many on the board. __________________ Rules \| Contributing Members I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. --Thomas Jefferson No one has the right to deny my personal safety Are you under 18?

10-16-2006, 10:43 PM	#3
ruger22com Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mobile Alabama Posts: 719	Make sure your bound book is 100% UP TO DATE, and you have a file of all your purchase invoices, and all weapons are locked in your safe, and it is a good idea to have them tagged to corespond with the bound book. They are pretty cool around here (I get a yearly as an 01 FFL, and they usually give me 24 hours notice), but I have also heard about surprise inspections for both 01 and C&R holders. I can tell you something a lot of people are unaware of....FFL 01 dealers have been pressuring the ATF to get tough on C&R holders, because a LOT of C&R holders think the license gives them the right to become gun dealers, buying mil surp weapons and selling them at gun shows or in the papers. Not to even mention straw sales on milsurps.....and the ATF is getting hot and heavy on this. With the new laws that will get passed, a C&R holder who keeps sloppy records or violates the sales laws will the eligible for HEAFTY fines (Like $5,000 for any offense), where now all they can do is pull your license. I don't think it would be unreal to see the C&R license done away with one day. I mean, if your just a collector and not a dealer, what would you need a license for anyway? Should collectors get wholesale prices? But, not to scare you...just make sure your records are in order, and there is not much to worry about. __________________ www.CheapGunParts.com Home of the "YELLOW JACKET" Bolt Buffer and Takedown Bolts! Free Shipping & Lifetime Warranty!

10-27-2006, 02:28 PM	#5
jwr4 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3	Response to my post One poster suggested the ATF may ask for my bound book, etc. from when I held a license in the early 1980's. That was done when the license expired around 1981. The law clearly states when a business holding an FFL closes or the license expires, etc., the bound volume and 4473 forms must be sent to the ATF. Acutually I'm not sure about the bound volume, although it does seem I mailed that in. Not sure though. I do know the 4473 forms must be mailed in. Another poster mentioned the ATF getting tough on C&R license holders who buy guns to resell at gun shows, etc. I have no problem with that. The law clearly states a C&R license doesn not allow a person to deal in buying and selling firearms. Break the law, face the consequences. These are the folks who make it tough on others. In my opinion, anyone selling modern firearms at a gun show should be required to post a copy of the FFL at their booth, and the sponsors of shows should require a copy of the FFL dealers license to be included with the application or cotract when a dealer applies for space at a gun show.

10-28-2006, 10:21 PM	#7
Apollyon67 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 2,189 Images: 17	I still don't understand what part of "Shall not be Infringed" the gov't doesn't get. __________________ "To err is human, to repent divine; to persist devilish." Ben Franklin

10-27-2006, 08:00 PM	#6
billy G&G asst.dino wrangler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca Posts: 7,984 Images: 8 Blog Entries: 108	c&r collectors arent in the gun business, or at least they better not be if they want to stay out of alot of expensive trouble. i collect guns , thats it.if i let my license expire i dont have to do anything. i just cant have anymore shipped to my home.

11-11-2006, 08:49 PM	#9
ninwnc Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 432	I collect guns too, but I also shoot'em. If a gun proves to be inaccurate, I sell it and buy another. I don't believe this to be illeagle. I don't buy guns to resale them, and I don't recieve wholesale pricing on the ones I do buy. The C&R I have is for the conveniance of buying via the internet. There are no gun shops locally that sell military surplus rifles, so the internet is my only other option. The local pawn shops that do have military surplus rifles price them like they think they are new Remingtons or Winchesters. Nick

11-13-2006, 06:01 AM	#11
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 393	ATF can ask to inspect your bound books. Since you are not in a buisness just collecting you can request to do it somewhere besides your premisis. When you decide to not renew your C&R license you do not send bound book in to the ATF . So as you can see there is quit abit difference between a C&R and a O1FFL.

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