What do i hafta do to get a class 3 ffl

[Dierte]

I'm curious what I hafta do to get a type 3ffl for curious and relics. How hard is it to get one?

[dogolden]

It is easy. Download the form from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, fill it out, and mail it in with your check. Your check will clear almost immediately and you should reciever your 03 FFL in maybe a month? Mine took seemingly forever...

[troylaplante]

Everything you need to know is right here. Collecting and Shooting the Military Surplus Rifle (2006) - Surplusrifle.com

Also poke around on Welcome to Cruffler.com!.

[Paper]

And remember, the $30 you spend for the actual license is the cheap part.

I suggest you find a credit card that pays rewards points..

Also, start looking for a new gun safe on the same day as you send the application in to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. You're gonna need it.

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

DO NOT FORGET TO FILL OUT THE CITEZENSHIP VERIFICATION FORM IN ADDITION TO THE APPLICATION!

[Calvin]

You'll have to take the application to the local police department and have the chief sign it. If you have Dayton (and I'm sure you do), it's not much fun trying to catch the chief there. Just be persistent and you'll get him eventually.
Just remind him when you do catch him he is only signing it saying he is aware that you are applying for a C&R- it requires no action on his part at all. He also gets a copy of it, too. Nice thing is you don't have to have the ID card you used to have to own any handgun in Dayton.....

[ash]

Hold on a second.

Is he asking for a "C&R" or a "class 3" FFL?

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

Originally Posted by Dierte

I'm curious what I hafta do to get a type 3ffl for curious and relics. How hard is it to get one?

Originally Posted by ash

Hold on a second.
Is he asking for a "C&R" or a "class 3" FFL?

C&R 03 FFL

Calvin is the LEO Signature a requirement for Dayton? I simply wrote his name in and dropped his copy by the office.

[billy]

Originally Posted by SPOCAHP ANAR

C&R 03 FFL

Calvin is the LEO Signature a requirement for Dayton? I simply wrote his name in and dropped his copy by the office.

thats what i did. gave it to his secretary.

[SPOCAHP ANAR]

Originally Posted by billy

thats what i did. gave it to his secretary.

As I read it; I believe all you have to do is write in the name of the Chief LEO for your city or the Sherriff's name if you live in the county and give him a copy of it. You do not need his approval at all. If he has any questions or concerns he can call the ATF to discuss them.

[ruger22com]

Just be sure you UNDERSTAND what the FFL 03 is for. It is only so you can collect old rifles and pistols for YOUR PRIVATE COLLECTION.
You cannot buy a new (or not on the list) gun with it, and you cannot start going to gunshows and sell a pile of old guns you just picked up from sog or century for profit.

(there is even talk among some distributers that they may stop recognizing and selling to the 03 holders because of the abuses)

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is changing the rules right now, and soon will be able to dump REALLY BIG (starting at $5,000) fines on people that abuse what this license is for.

Don't be scared off by this, just make sure you understand everything going in. The 03 is great for building up an old military collection.

[Orlando]

No need for the Chief of Police to sign anything. It clearly states that you just send them the filled out form. They do nothing probably ends up in the trash anyway. Its easy to get, waiting is the hard part. Seems like different states take longer. Mine was almost 2 1/2 months, some only takes weeks. Good luck

[Paper]

I just mailed mine to my local police chief. I did include a letter stating that I'm only collecting. I wanted this to be known since I'm within 1000' of a local school (Brady Bill).. The copy to the local law is only if they feel you're not a person to be giving this license to..

Also, remember that you can buy anything on the "list" AND anything that you can show proof that it's 50 or more years old. I have an addiction to old Mossberg .22 rifles, and many were not made for very many years.. For some reason, I've accumulated 4 different Mossberg 151K's.. Since they stopped making them in 1952, they're C and R eligible, even though they're not on the "list"..

They cashed my check quickly, but it took almost 3 months before my packet of stuff showed up..

One more thing.. Not everybody accepts an 03 FFL.. If I have to fill out a 4473 form, the gun doesn't go in my bound book. And if I sell a gun that's eligible, and it's not in my bound book, it's also not checked out of my bound book..

The paperwork seems a little overwhelming at first, but it's very simple once you understand the rules. If you use your 03 to purchase, put it in your book. If not, it's no different than buying a new GLOCK or anything else.. It's just a 4473 purchase, just as though you didn't have a 03 license in the first place.

[Orlando]

Any firearm thats is a Curio and Relic must be entered into your bound book regardless if you used your license to obtain the firearm or not. This is clearly stated in the rules and regs

[Paper]

Originally Posted by Orlando

This is clearly stated in the rules and regs

Umm.. Where?
And NOTHING is clearly stated in the rules and regs..

I spent a great deal of time tonight looking for something on this, and couldn't find anything in my books or online.. Do you have a source for the ruling on this?

As it stands, I've not purchased anything C and R eligible since I got my license, but have several from before I got my license. Anyway, if you have a source for that ruling, I'd greatly appreciate it.

[Orlando]

Well I guess you are right ,its in the but maybe not stated clearly. I'll try to find it for you but for now
Any Curio and Relic you had in your posession before your license you do not have to put in the bound book. Any C&R you purchase after you have your license must be logged in wether you use your license or not.

Found it see, 27CFR 178.125

[Paper]

Clear as mud..
I'm guessing that you're speaking of paragraph "f"?
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't see anything about where bound book recording is needed for something that's been purchased with a 4473, since a 03 License Number wasn't given or recorded during the purchase.
That, and it's like reading stereo instructions by somebody who's already had a really long, long day..
[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 27, Volume 1]
[Revised as of April 1, 2001]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 27CFR178.125]
[Page 986-989]
TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS
CHAPTER I--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS, DEPARTMENT OF THE
TREASURY
PART 178--COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents
Subpart H--Records
Sec. 178.125 Record of receipt and disposition.
(a) Armor piercing ammunition sales by licensed collectors to
nonlicensees. The sale or other disposition of armor piercing ammunition
by licensed collectors shall be recorded in a bound record at the time a
transaction is made. The bound record shall be maintained in
chronological order by date of sale or disposition of the armor piercing
ammunition, and shall be retained on the licensed premises of the
licensee for a period not less than two years following the date of the
recorded sale or disposition of the armor piercing ammunition. The bound
record entry shall show:
(1) The date of the transaction;
(2) The name of the manufacturer;
(3) The caliber or gauge;
(4) The quantity of projectiles;
(5) The name, address, and date of birth of the nonlicensee; and
(6) The method used to establish the identity of the armor piercing
ammunition purchaser.
The format required for the bound record is as follows:
Disposition Record of Armor Piercing Ammunition
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Purchaser Enter a (x) in the ``known''
---------------------- column if purchaser is personally
known to you. Otherwise, establish
Date Manufacturer Caliber or Quantity of the purchaser's identification
gauge projectiles Name and Date of -----------------------------------
address birth Driver's Other type
Known license (specify)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However, when a commercial record is made at the time a transaction is
made, a licensee may delay making an entry into the bound record if the
provisions of paragraph (d) of this section are complied with.
(b) Armor piercing ammunition sales by licensed collectors to
licensees. Sales or other dispositions of armor piercing ammunition from
a licensed collector to another licensee shall be recorded and
maintained in the manner prescribed in Sec. 178.122(b) for importers:
Provided, That the license number of the transferee may be recorded in
lieu of the transferee's address.
(c) Armor piercing ammunition sales by licensed dealers to
governmental entities. A record of armor piercing ammunition disposed of
by a licensed dealer to a governmental entity pursuant to Sec. 178.99(e)
shall be maintained by the licensed dealer on the licensed premises and
shall show the name of the manufacturer, the caliber or gauge, the
quantity, the name and address of the entity to which the armor piercing
ammunition was transferred, and the date of the transaction. Such
information shall be recorded under the format prescribed by
Sec. 178.122(b). Each licensed dealer disposing of armor piercing
ammunition pursuant to Sec. 178.99(e) shall also maintain a record
showing the date of acquisition of such ammunition which shall be filed
in an orderly manner separate from other commercial records maintained
and be readily available for inspection. The records required by this
paragraph shall be retained on the licensed premises of the licensee for
a period not less than two years following the date of the recorded sale
or disposition of the armor piercing ammunition.
(d) Commercial records of armor piercing ammunition transactions.
When a commercial record is made at the time of sale or other
disposition of armor piercing ammunition, and such record contains all
information required by the bound record prescribed by paragraph (a) of
this section, the licensed collector transferring the armor piercing
ammunition may, for a period not exceeding 7 days following the date of
such transfer, delay making the required entry into such bound record:
Provided, That the commercial record pertaining to the transfer is:
(1) Maintained by the licensed collector separate from other
commercial
[[Page 987]]
documents maintained by such licensee, and
(2) Is readily available for inspection on the licensed premises
until such time as the required entry into the bound record is made.
(e) Firearms receipt and disposition by dealers. Except as provided
in Sec. 178.124a with respect to alternate records for the receipt and
disposition of firearms by dealers, each licensed dealer shall enter
into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms. In addition,
before commencing or continuing a firearms business, each licensed
dealer shall inventory the firearms possessed for such business and
shall record same in the record required by this paragraph. The record
required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the
format prescribed below. The purchase or other acquisition of a firearm
shall, except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, be recorded
not later than the close of the next business day following the date of
such purchase or acquisition. The record shall show the date of receipt,
the name and address or the name and license number of the person from
whom received, the name of the manufacturer and importer (if any), the
model, serial number, type, and the caliber or gauge of the firearm. The
sale or other disposition of a firearm shall be recorded by the licensed
dealer not later than 7 days following the date of such transaction.
When such disposition is made to a nonlicensee, the firearms transaction
record, Form 4473, obtained by the licensed dealer shall be retained,
until the transaction is recorded, separate from the licensee's Form
4473 file and be readily available for inspection. When such disposition
is made to a licensee, the commercial record of the transaction shall be
retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from other
commercial documents maintained by the licensed dealer, and be readily
available for inspection. The record shall show the date of the sale or
other disposition of each firearm, the name and address of the person to
whom the firearm is transferred, or the name and license number of the
person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, or the firearms
transaction record, Form 4473, serial number if the licensed dealer
transferring the firearm serially numbers the Forms 4473 and files them
numerically. The format required for the record of receipt and
disposition of firearms is as follows:
FIREARMS ACQUISITION AND DISPOSITION RECORD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Description of firearm Receipt Disposition
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address or
Name and license No. if
Serial Caliber address or licensee, or Form
Manufacturer and/or Importer Model No. Type or gauge Date name and Date Name 4473 Serial No.
license if Forms 4473
No. filed numerically
]

[Paper]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(f) Firearms receipt and disposition by licensed collectors. Each
licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and
disposition of firearms curios or relics. The record required by this
paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed
below. The purchase or other acquisition of a curio or relic shall,
except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, be recorded not
later than the close of the next business day following the date of such
purchase or other acquisition. The record shall show the date of
receipt, the name and address or the name and license number of the
person from whom received, the name of the manufacturer and importer (if
any), the model, serial number, type, and the caliber or gauge of the
firearm curio or relic. The sale or other disposition of a curio or
relic shall be recorded by the licensed collector not later than 7 days
following the date of such transaction. When such disposition is made to
a licensee, the commercial record of the transaction shall be retained,
until the transaction is recorded, separate from other commercial
documents maintained by the licensee, and be readily available for
inspection. The record
[[Page 988]]
shall show the date of the sale or other disposition of each firearm
curio or relic, the name and address of the person to whom the firearm
curio or relic is transferred, or the name and license number of the
person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, and the date of
birth of the transferee if other than a licensee. In addition, the
licensee shall cause the transferee, if other than a licensee, to be
identified in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions
(e.g., a driver's license), and shall note on the record the method
used. In addition, the licensee shall--
(1) Cause the transferee, if other than a licensee, to be identified
in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a
driver's license), and note on the record the method used, and
(2) In the case of a transferee who is an alien legally in the
United States and who is other than a licensee--
(i) Verify the identity of the transferee by examining an
identification document (as defined in Sec. 178.11), and
(ii) Cause the transferee to present documentation establishing that
the transferee is a resident of the State (as defined in Sec. 178.11) in
which the licensee's business premises is located if the firearm curio
or relic is other than a shotgun or rifle, and note on the record the
documentation used or is a resident of any State and has resided in such
State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the transfer of the
firearm if the firearm curio or relic is a shotgun or rifle and shall
note on the record the documentation used. Examples of acceptable
documentation include utility bills or a lease agreement which show that
the transferee has resided in the State continuously for at least 90
days prior to the transfer of the firearm curio or relic.
(3) The format required for the record of receipt and disposition of
firearms by collectors is as follows:
Firearms Collectors Acquisition and Disposition Record
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Description of firearm Receipt Disposition
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name and Name and For transfers
address address Driver's to aliens,
Serial Caliber or name or name Date of license No. or documentation
Manufacturer and/or importer Model No. Type or Date and Date and birth if other used to
gauge license license nonlicensee identification establish
No. No. if nonlicensee residency
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(g) Commercial records of firearms received. When a commercial
record is held by a licensed dealer or licensed collector showing the
acquisition of a firearm or firearm curio or relic, and such record
contains all acquisition information required by the bound record
prescribed by paragraphs (e) and (f) of this section, the licensed
dealer or licensed collector acquiring such firearm or curio or relic,
may, for a period not exceeding 7 days following the date of such
acquisition, delay making the required entry into such bound record:
Provided, That the commercial record is, until such time as the required
entry into the bound record is made, (1) maintained by the licensed
dealer or licensed collector separate from other commercial documents
maintained by such licensee, and (2) readily available for inspection on
the licensed premises: Provided further, That when disposition is made
of a firearm or firearm curio or relic not entered in the bound record
under the provisions of this paragraph, the licensed dealer or licensed
collector making such disposition shall enter all required acquisition
information regarding the firearm or firearm curio or relic in the bound
record at the time such transfer or disposition is made.
[[Page 989]]
(h) Alternate records. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs
(a), (e), and (f) of this section, the Director of Industry Operations
may authorize alternate records to be maintained by a licensed dealer or
licensed collector to record the acquisition and disposition of firearms
or curios or relics and the disposition of armor piercing ammunition
when it is shown by the licensed dealer or the licensed collector that
such alternate records will accurately and readily disclose the required
information. A licensed dealer or licensed collector who proposes to use
alternate records shall submit a letter application, in duplicate, to
the Director of Industry Operations and shall describe the proposed
alternate records and the need therefor. Such alternate records shall
not be employed by the licensed dealer or licensed collector until
approval in such regard is received from the Director of Industry
Operations.
(i) Requirements for importers and manufacturers. Each licensed
importer and licensed manufacturer selling or otherwise disposing of
firearms or armor piercing ammunition to nonlicensees shall maintain
such records of such transactions as are required of licensed dealers by
this section.
(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number
1512-0387)
[T.D. ATF-270, 53 FR 10503, Mar. 31, 1988, as amended by T.D. ATF-273,
53 FR 24687, June 30, 1988; T.D. ATF-313, 56 FR 32508, July 17, 1991;
T.D. ATF-389, 62 FR 19445, Apr. 21, 1997

[Orlando]

The OG's C&R FAQs - operating a bizness

[Paper]

Thank you very, very much for finding that. That was my next route, sending a letter to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for a clarification.

Thanks!!!