Does a C&R allow you to buy full auto pre 1946 guns?

shawn · 12-22-2007, 04:54 PM

i was wondering about the rules as far as purchasing say a PPSh-41 smg, or how about a parts kit and then a reciever marked pre 1946 and assembling it.I know I'm going out on a limb and dreaming of the possibilitys.I went to the ATF website and I think I was looking at the right page for allowed guns but I know that many of you out there have knowledge of these issues. If it is possible to purchase these types can anyone provide me with links to any of these little slices of heaven.I just recently sent for my 03 app and I would like to know what kind of goodies I may legally buy for my new money sucking. marrage straining collection. Thanks! shawn: HELP ME OUT PAPER ! feedback:

K75RT · 12-22-2007, 05:07 PM

Shawn,
With a C&R you may purchase a C&R eligible machinegun if your state allows it and you have the $$.
As far as buying a kit and making one, that is not legal and hasn't been since 1986; thank you Ronald Reagan.

texnmidwest · 12-22-2007, 05:21 PM

To buy full auto weapons you must have a FFL Class 3 Dealer complete the transaction. You also must jump through some Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms hoops and pay a couple hundred dollar tax. A C&R license is limited to a certain list of firearms and would not be of much help to you. Good luck! And have fun!

M14man · 12-22-2007, 05:31 PM

You can not make a new machinegun, or alter any gun to make a machinegun. You have to buy an existing legal one and the prices vary from $1500 up to over $100,000. There is no easy way or cheap way. All the loops have be be run thru,all the proper papers completed and approved.

Mooseman684 · 12-22-2007, 05:39 PM

Actually, if you could find a pre-86 REGISTERED reciever, (You could afford),you apply and pay the 200 transfer tax, When approved and you get the stamp from the IRS,you could legally put together a PPSH-41 Machine gun and Own it...
Chance of finding one is 1 in a Million Million...
Better chance of hitting the Lottery.
Rich

shawn · 12-22-2007, 06:45 PM

Well, I guess I got the info I needed! Ok, now how about some links to some really FUN (C&R)semi-autos. I already have a M1 carbine, I'm open for any suggestions! Any favorites out there? Thanks again! shawn

ggordon · 12-24-2007, 12:11 PM

Shawn:

Actually, you can purchase a full-auto weapon with just a C+R FFL. The gun must be an already registered gun and your state must allow ownership of class III weapons.

You fill out an application to receive the weapon with the ATF, you get fingerprinted, pay a $200 transfer tax, and need a letter from your local Sheriff or Police Chief stating that he's unaware of any reason for you to be denied ownership.

You give all of this to the ATF and wait several months. If approved, you can then receive the registered machine gun from the seller.

You do not need to use a Class III licensed dealer to receive the gun for you.

The ATF lists several machine guns that are considered Curios+ Relics that would be eligible for your consideration.

lefty o · 12-24-2007, 03:17 PM

as noted above, there are C&R full auto's, but you must still do the paper work. you do not need a dealer to do the transfer for you with a C&R.

Paper · 12-25-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawn

Well, I guess I got the info I needed! Ok, now how about some links to some really FUN (C&R)semi-autos. I already have a M1 carbine, I'm open for any suggestions! Any favorites out there? Thanks again! shawn

Remember that you can buy any gun that's 50 + years old with your C and R license, in addition to what's on the list. I've bought several old Mossberg .22's with my C and R, and maybe a couple shotguns in the mix.

As far as Full Auto, I've never looked into it. I have a hard enough time rounding up cheap ammo for my Mausers and Nagants, and now that I've got a Garand to feed, I need to get a second job.

M14man · 12-26-2007, 10:18 AM

Somehow the gist of the question is being missed. I have a C&R, had a 01 FFL for 24 yrs and have a class 3 weapon. The C&R license does nothing as to getting a full auto easier. In your hunt for a class 3 you will likely have to get the one you want from a Class 3 dealer anyway. Very few dealers or individual owners will feel comfortable in sending a weapon to you. They will want to deal thru a dealer to protect themselves and their license which they want to protect.You will still have to do every bit of paperwork, and pay every tax that you would anyway. As for paying a dealer fee, most dealers can find one at less cost than you could find one from an individual seller. Holders of the C&R somehow think that they have found a loophole or easy way around the mess. Not so...and if you think that a C&R full auto is cheap, well BAR's at Knob Creek were going for $60,000. If you got that kind of money and want a BAR that bad, a dealer fee is trivial! The hard part is usually getting the LEO sign-off if your state allows Class 3. Then sadly most ranges will not allow full auto use, so after you pay big bucks for one, you have trouble finding places to shoot, and at 25 cents a pop minimum for ammo, a light day at the range will be $125. Better have deep pockets if FA be your game.

12-22-2007, 04:54 PM	#1
shawn Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Two Rivers,Wisconsin Posts: 24	Does a C&R allow you to buy full auto pre 1946 guns? i was wondering about the rules as far as purchasing say a PPSh-41 smg, or how about a parts kit and then a reciever marked pre 1946 and assembling it.I know I'm going out on a limb and dreaming of the possibilitys.I went to the ATF website and I think I was looking at the right page for allowed guns but I know that many of you out there have knowledge of these issues. If it is possible to purchase these types can anyone provide me with links to any of these little slices of heaven.I just recently sent for my 03 app and I would like to know what kind of goodies I may legally buy for my new money sucking. marrage straining collection. Thanks! shawn: HELP ME OUT PAPER ! feedback: Last edited by shawn; 12-22-2007 at 05:02 PM.

12-22-2007, 05:39 PM	#5
Mooseman684 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 8,193 Images: 2	Actually, if you could find a pre-86 REGISTERED reciever, (You could afford),you apply and pay the 200 transfer tax, When approved and you get the stamp from the IRS,you could legally put together a PPSH-41 Machine gun and Own it... Chance of finding one is 1 in a Million Million... Better chance of hitting the Lottery. Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

12-22-2007, 06:45 PM	#6
shawn Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Two Rivers,Wisconsin Posts: 24	semi-auto Well, I guess I got the info I needed! Ok, now how about some links to some really FUN (C&R)semi-autos. I already have a M1 carbine, I'm open for any suggestions! Any favorites out there? Thanks again! shawn

12-24-2007, 12:11 PM	#7
ggordon Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 55	Shawn: Actually, you can purchase a full-auto weapon with just a C+R FFL. The gun must be an already registered gun and your state must allow ownership of class III weapons. You fill out an application to receive the weapon with the ATF, you get fingerprinted, pay a $200 transfer tax, and need a letter from your local Sheriff or Police Chief stating that he's unaware of any reason for you to be denied ownership. You give all of this to the ATF and wait several months. If approved, you can then receive the registered machine gun from the seller. You do not need to use a Class III licensed dealer to receive the gun for you. The ATF lists several machine guns that are considered Curios+ Relics that would be eligible for your consideration. Last edited by ggordon; 12-24-2007 at 12:16 PM.

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12-22-2007, 05:07 PM	#2
K75RT Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 184	Shawn, With a C&R you may purchase a C&R eligible machinegun if your state allows it and you have the $$. As far as buying a kit and making one, that is not legal and hasn't been since 1986; thank you Ronald Reagan.

12-22-2007, 05:21 PM	#3
texnmidwest Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South east Wisconsin Posts: 1,938	To buy full auto weapons you must have a FFL Class 3 Dealer complete the transaction. You also must jump through some Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms hoops and pay a couple hundred dollar tax. A C&R license is limited to a certain list of firearms and would not be of much help to you. Good luck! And have fun!

12-22-2007, 05:31 PM	#4
M14man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: FLA Posts: 177	You can not make a new machinegun, or alter any gun to make a machinegun. You have to buy an existing legal one and the prices vary from $1500 up to over $100,000. There is no easy way or cheap way. All the loops have be be run thru,all the proper papers completed and approved.

12-24-2007, 03:17 PM	#8
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,240	as noted above, there are C&R full auto's, but you must still do the paper work. you do not need a dealer to do the transfer for you with a C&R.

12-26-2007, 10:18 AM	#10
M14man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: FLA Posts: 177	Somehow the gist of the question is being missed. I have a C&R, had a 01 FFL for 24 yrs and have a class 3 weapon. The C&R license does nothing as to getting a full auto easier. In your hunt for a class 3 you will likely have to get the one you want from a Class 3 dealer anyway. Very few dealers or individual owners will feel comfortable in sending a weapon to you. They will want to deal thru a dealer to protect themselves and their license which they want to protect.You will still have to do every bit of paperwork, and pay every tax that you would anyway. As for paying a dealer fee, most dealers can find one at less cost than you could find one from an individual seller. Holders of the C&R somehow think that they have found a loophole or easy way around the mess. Not so...and if you think that a C&R full auto is cheap, well BAR's at Knob Creek were going for $60,000. If you got that kind of money and want a BAR that bad, a dealer fee is trivial! The hard part is usually getting the LEO sign-off if your state allows Class 3. Then sadly most ranges will not allow full auto use, so after you pay big bucks for one, you have trouble finding places to shoot, and at 25 cents a pop minimum for ammo, a light day at the range will be $125. Better have deep pockets if FA be your game.