The 223 round will kill any north america game. Just ask any gun dealer: I have shot and killed over 20 deer in Michigan using every bullet from 55 grain soft point (Black Hills) to 60 gr Hornady tap FPD's.
I feel that the 223 drops em much faster than a 30-06.
I own 20 acres in Michigan and wont use anything other than a 223.
They drop fast.
I've had deer run 200 with a 30-o6, never had a deer run further than 50 yards with an AR-15 223 round.
Really? With my .30-06 they don't take a step. I'm not going to knock a .223, I mean a .22 hornet has killed deer. Is it the best? probably not. Shot placement CAN have more of an impact than caliber. It's all situational. My .30-06 is what SWAT uses. I know where to put my bullet, the past 2 years all of my shots have been DRT. My first year of hunting (3 years ago) I was shooting for vitals. They ran some then. Now I shoot neck / above shoulder (depending on distance and position) and the most I've seen one do is a backflip and landed on his head. Anyways, if .223 is legal where the OP is, the worst you'll get for using it is dirty looks.
I'm not of the AR persuasion when it comes to hunting, but I guess that's a personal choice. I carried an M-16 for five years in the Marines, great for that scenario, but unless you are planning on being ambushed by a herd of deer, a bolt action serves my purpose these days.
My Dad never used anything but a .22lr or a .22 mag to shoot deer with. Never seen him lose one.
I have shot them with .220 swift to 7.62X63 and never had one run further than maybe ten feet.
The cleanest kills were with the .220 swift and the 55 and 62gr 5.56 NATO. It was always BANG! DROP! From ranges of 100 to 250yds.
The 7.62X39 M67 ball tears up too much meat when shooting into the body and scrambles the brain too much to use for tanning with a head shot in my opinion. I will only use it if that's all I have on hand.
The .30-30 was usually the next cleanest kill at 75-150 yds, but not accurate enough for a head shot beyond 125 yds (Not with my JC.Higgins anyways).
The .308 isn't good for head shots. Tears up the head too much. Great for body shots. Too fast for under 75 yds although I've shot deer under 100 yds with it. .30-06 I don't like that round for shots under 150 yds. Too fast.
I haven't used Wolf 7.62X39, I don't trust the accuracy.
I have never used anything but M67 FMJ in 7.62X39.
I haven't used a .243, If I did, I may find that to be my favorite round.
I would only use a .22 for shots 50yds and under, but only because I can drive a tack with the little Marlin 795 I have at that distance and even then, I would only take the shot under Ideal conditions.
The key to not losing deer when using a small caliber is to pick your shots, and to know the rifle you're using well enought to know exactly where that first round from a cold barrel is going to go.
Do those two things and you won't lose your deer no matter what caliber you use.
I have allowed more deer to walk away from me than I ever shot at.
Keep in mind that hunters in Siberia kill very large game with a single shot .22 as that is the only rifle they were allowed to own. Inuits kill polar bears with the AR.
The best caliber is the one you know best from the rifle you know best whether it's a .17 or a .50cal BMG.
__________________ Everytime someone sells a gun without buying another, a nice kitten is placed into a wood chipper.
The AR platform is great for deer hunting! Anyone that says it isn't is just a fudd like Jim Zumbo who said "these terrorist rifles don't belong in the deer woods". Anyway, there are a lot of cartridges that will work for deer hunting. 6mm-223, 243 WSSM, 25 WSSM, 25-223, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, 7.62x39, 30 Remington AR, 450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM, 50 Beowulf, and 50 AE just to name a few. If you have an AR-10 lower then you could use 308.
Last edited by WisconsinHunter; 07-28-2011 at 02:06 PM.
poachers seem to think a 22 mag to the head is enough deer gun. im sure the .223 is adequate with good shot placement. as for options...the sky is the limit. look around enough and you will find someone that makes an upper in whatever caliber you want. ive seen .338 Lapua and .300 RUM uppers. just decide whatever cartridge you feel is enough and go find the upper to match it.
__________________
The right to bear arms is WAY less ludicrous than the right to arm bears!
I have a Remington R-25 in 308 and the AR platform works quite well for deer. I've had people look at it and say "what do you need something like that to hunt deer with?" they question the AR platform but seem to think a Remington 7400 is just fine for deer hunting. little do they understand, they both operate exactly the same and both have detachable magazines. one has pretty glossy wood furniture, one has none. they judge by looks only.
Well put...can it harvest a deer yes...however its not ideal by any means, and nor is it though of as a game cartridge...unless your a varmint hunter
6.8 SPC is hardly what i'd call a varmint round, unless you like to ruin pelts. with ballistics over the 30/30 out of a 20"+ barrel, it's a very formidable deer round loaded with the right bullet, and even with defensive loads like the 110 grn hornady OTM. it's spot on for deer sized critters out of a 20+ barrel out to 300 yds
i've built up a few hand loads using the serria pro hunter and got the 120 grn bullet up to 2650+- FPS out of a 16" barrel, and it works great on black bear. the only thing that is the cartridges only real draw back, is lack of availability. it's still really only a cartridge for hand loaders, but it is gaining popularity quickly, so who knows what it will be in 5 years.
that said, the AR10 does leave you with allot more available "commercial" hunting loads and it's a far more versatile platform for an "all around" rifle if you like the modularity of 1 lower, and many uppers. the AR10 can not only chamber varmint loads like the .22-250, but many proven hunting rounds like the .243, .260, 7mm/08, .338 federal, .358 Win, .450 marlin, and the availability .308 hunting rounds is second to none. i've left out allot of wildcats to boot.
the 5.56/.223 has taken plenty of deer, and i have a few rifles chambered in 5.56 nato that have taken black/whitetail deer, and 'bue over the years, but shot placement is key. i'm not talking just our resident dog sized blacktails, but NE Iowa corn fed monsters to, before rifles were banned in the upper part of the state. if your confident in your shot placement ability, then the few extra lbs saved by an AR15 is a plus over a quite a few .30 cal turnbolts if you stick with a light weight rifle.
__________________
CWO4 USMC, 0321-0203 (RSTA) 2/2, 2/5, 3/1 1975-2007, retired, but not dead!
Location: upstate New Yorkistan [the first openly totalitian republic of AmeriKa]
Posts: 1,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by .22hustler
I believe in NY that in the counties that allow rifle, .243 is the smallest you can use for big game.
In New York State, any centerfire rifle round is legal to hunt deer with. That means the 22 Hornet is legal.
To the OP, if I had a choice I'd pick the 30AR [300 Savage ballistics] first, then one of the various 6.5 choices if I was going to stick with the AR-15 sized gun.
I personally have a Rock River Arms LAR-8 [AR-10 size] on order in 308. My brother has a LAR-8 in 243 on order. In the future, I plan on adding a 260Rem, or 358WIN upper if RRA makes them available.
Location: upstate New Yorkistan [the first openly totalitian republic of AmeriKa]
Posts: 1,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadzero
The Browning BAR is another example. once it was a battle rifle. slap some pretty wood on it, and it became a much sought after, excellent hunting rifle with no gripes from anyone.
The WWII Browning BAR and the Browning BAR sold at local guns shops are not even close to the same gun. Only the name is the same.
My Dad never used anything but a .22lr or a .22 mag to shoot deer with. Never seen him lose one.
I have shot them with .220 swift to 7.62X63 and never had one run further than maybe ten feet.
The cleanest kills were with the .220 swift and the 55 and 62gr 5.56 NATO. It was always BANG! DROP! From ranges of 100 to 250yds.
The 7.62X39 M67 ball tears up too much meat when shooting into the body and scrambles the brain too much to use for tanning with a head shot in my opinion. I will only use it if that's all I have on hand.
The .30-30 was usually the next cleanest kill at 75-150 yds, but not accurate enough for a head shot beyond 125 yds (Not with my JC.Higgins anyways).
The .308 isn't good for head shots. Tears up the head too much. Great for body shots. Too fast for under 75 yds although I've shot deer under 100 yds with it. .30-06 I don't like that round for shots under 150 yds. Too fast.
I haven't used Wolf 7.62X39, I don't trust the accuracy.
I have never used anything but M67 FMJ in 7.62X39.
I haven't used a .243, If I did, I may find that to be my favorite round.
I would only use a .22 for shots 50yds and under, but only because I can drive a tack with the little Marlin 795 I have at that distance and even then, I would only take the shot under Ideal conditions.
The key to not losing deer when using a small caliber is to pick your shots, and to know the rifle you're using well enought to know exactly where that first round from a cold barrel is going to go.
Do those two things and you won't lose your deer no matter what caliber you use.
I have allowed more deer to walk away from me than I ever shot at.
Keep in mind that hunters in Siberia kill very large game with a single shot .22 as that is the only rifle they were allowed to own. Inuits kill polar bears with the AR.
The best caliber is the one you know best from the rifle you know best whether it's a .17 or a .50cal BMG.
Take a look at the attached pictures. This was done with a 308 Win cheap 150gr Winchester Power Point at about 40 yards. Not execissive damage to the head IMO.
28Likes
