jungle carbine

[squirrelbaster]

just found out that an old family friend is/was a gun collecter and on top of that he wants to sell some of his collection he has several enfields for sale but im looking at his mk 5 jungle carbine. it is in great shape and in fireing condition, i think it is a 1947. he says he does not want top doller, the problemis that neather one of us know what that is..... what is a fair price for this rifle.... if more info is needed please ask for it, or at least try to give me a ballpark estamit
thanks S.B

[Kodiak32]

You might check out gunbroker.com or gunsamerica and see what they are selling for.

[squirrelbaster]

thnks for the suggestion kodiak, ill do that, also i forgotto mention that it is all matching

[texnmidwest]

Squirrel you might want to look on Century arms website. They have them there. They are priced at 499 in good condition. I have a jungle carbine that is in good condition. I love the little rifle. I sent pictures to Mooseman and asked him what it was worth. He said 350. I would take a good look at the carbine. Some are remade by importers into Jungle carbines from full sized Enfields. Not sure what that would do to the price. Another place to look and a must have for people like us is the Blue Book of Gun Values. If you have a half priced book store around you can find last years issue for under 20 bucks. The prices rise some but it should give you a ballpark range. I find on gun broker prices are all over the place.

All in all I think you are going to love that little Carbine. I have not shot mine yet but I hear they kick like the devil! I want to shoot it just to find out!

[squirrelbaster]

thanks TEX thats a GREAT idea, theres a halfprice books like 2 blocks from me, ill go look in the morning!
ps does anyone know how to tell if its been made into a jungle carbine by an importer like tex is talking about? ive that before so im a bit worried about it, since i dont know much about enfields.

[Capt'n Mil Coll]

Here is one of the best places to see what to look for when buying a Jungle Carbine.

ENFIELD No.5 JUNGLE CARBINE

You have to remember the Jungle carbine had a lot of cuts on it to make it lighter. If your rifle has all these cuts your cooking with oil. If not you might want to pass on it. Remember this Rifle is basicly a cut down version of an Enfield. Unlike the M1 Carbine which was manufactured as a small gun. So this has a hell of a kick and the zero will wander as the barrel heats up.

[GlockMeister]

Mooseman will have an idea. Give him time to see this thread.

[egef]

Squirrel I'd check out the prices on the century arms website but its a great little gun for hunting light and compact. Problem is it's a 303cal and the ammo tends to be a bit expensive.

Last I checked at my local Gander mtn store it was about $25. for 20 rounds
and its something that you don't tend to see everyday so if the price is right
I'd get it.

[texnmidwest]

Anybody know if there are pictures somewhere of the lightening flutes on the barrel of a jungle carbine? Mine has every cut and everything that would make it a jungle carbine but I can't confirm the barrel flutes. Any pictures of them somewhere?

[Capt'n Mil Coll]

Check out my post three above yours Tex. It shows all the cuts they did to mfg a No.5. The cuts closest to the reciever are the ones you are talking about I believe.

[nathangdad]

This was an interesting, yet not successful design, in .303 caliber.
If you have an opportunity to read up on this design you will learn
an acceptable degree of accuracy was not obtained.
It is, however, and interesting design concept.
Unless you want the gun for historical collection purposes I would not really advise spending money on it.

MOOSEMAN - CHECK MY POST FROM THIS MORNING. IT WILL ENLIGHTEN YOU.

[Mooseman684]

Originally Posted by nathangdad

This was an interesting, yet not successful design, in .303 caliber.
If you have an opportunity to read up on this design you will learn
an acceptable degree of accuracy was not obtained.
It is, however, and interesting design concept.
Unless you want the gun for historical collection purposes I would not really advise spending money on it.

Where do you come up with this BS ???
It was so sucessfull they made millions of them and fought many Wars besides 2 world wars with them...
.303 was and is a Darn good cartridge and the Enfields are Excellent Rifles.

[texnmidwest]

I think what he was talking about was the Jungle carbine concept itself, not the 303 round or the Enfield rifle itself. Everyone knows the Enfield is one of the finest bolt action battle rifle ever made and the 303 has been well proven as well.

At least I think that is what he was trying to say.

Originally Posted by Capt'n Mil Coll

Check out my post three above yours Tex. It shows all the cuts they did to mfg a No.5. The cuts closest to the reciever are the ones you are talking about I believe.

Thanks, Capt.!! I had looked at that site and for some reason didn't read the last part of the caption where it talks about the lightening cuts on the barrel shank.

Thanks again!

[nathangdad]

I was discussing the Jungle Carbine which, if you do some research, you will find did not produce acceptable accuracy in .303 caliber and was considered a failed product by the British Military. They did not pursue methods to salvage the Jungle Carbine and keep it in the inventory.

The .303 cartridge in a properly manufactured Enfield was a good mix of caliber and action.

If you will do a little more research, you will learn the WW2 rush for mass production created a maximum bore acceptance of .311 inches by the British Military which rendered many of the WW2 Enfields acceptable for
use by rapidly trained soldiers but not for accuracy work.

You might want to spend some time reading information available through the National Rifle Association and its publications. They have excellent
historical records.

[timberlord]

Here ya go
No4 top
No5 bottom

[Mooseman684]

The Lee-Enfield was chambered for the .303 British cartridge, and featured a ten-round box magazine which was loaded manually from the top, either one round at a time, or by means of five-round chargers. The Lee-Enfield superseded the earlier Martini-Henry, Martini-Enfield, and Lee-Metford rifles, and although officially replaced in the UK with the L1A1 SLR in 1957, it continues to see official service in a number of British Commonwealth nations to the present day—notably with the Indian Police—and is the longest-serving military bolt-action rifle still in official service.[6]

Total production of all Lee-Enfields is estimated at over 17 million rifles,[7] making it one of the most numerous military bolt-action rifles ever produced—second only to the Russian Mosin-Nagant M91/30, which was itself a contemporary design.


One of the complaints levelled against the No. 5 Mk I rifle by soldiers was that it had a "wandering zero"- ie, the rifle could not be "sighted in" and then relied upon to shoot to the same point of impact later on.[1]. Tests conducted during the mid to late 1940s appeared to confirm that the rifle did have some accuracy issues- most likely relating to the lightening cuts made in the receiver, combined with the presence of a flash hider on the end of the barrel.[2]. However, modern collectors and shooters have pointed out that no Jungle Carbine collector/shooter on any of the prominent internet military firearm collecting forums has reported a confirmed "wandering zero" on their No. 5 Mk I rifle[3], leading to speculation that the No. 5 Mk I may have been phased out largely because the British Military didn't want to be issued with a bolt-action rifle when most of the other major militaries were switching over to semi-automatic arms[4] such as the M1 Garand, SKS, or FN-FAL. Nonetheless, it has also been pointed out by historians and collectors that the No. 5 Mk I must have had some fault, as the British military continued with manufacture and issue of the Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mk II rifle until 1956, before finally converting to the L1A1 SLR.[5] There is No proof of this Officially...


[edit] Notes
^ Wilson, Royce "Jungle Fever: The Lee-Enfield .303 rifle No. 5 Mk I", Australian Shooter Magazine, May 2006
^ Skennerton, Ian: Small Arms Identification Series No. 4: .303 Rifle, No. 5 Mk I , Page 8. Arms & Militaria Press, 1994
^ Skennerton, Ian: Small Arms Identification Series No. 4: .303 Rifle, No. 5 Mk I , Page 7. Arms & Militaria Press, 1994
^ Skennerton, Ian: Small Arms Identification Series No. 4: .303 Rifle, No. 5 Mk I , Page 7. Arms & Militaria Press, 1994
^ Skennerton, Ian: Small Arms Identification Series No. 4: .303 Rifle, No. 5 Mk I , Page 7. Arms & Militaria Press, 1994

[texnmidwest]

Originally Posted by timberlord

Here ya go
No4 top
No5 bottom

Thanks Timberlord! After work I am going to check my carbine for those cuts. All else checks out for it to be an original carbine. Just need to make sure those flutes are on the barrel shank. If they are there the "HOOTIE HOOT" you hear will be me! Like I said, I bought it for 90 Bucks!

[irish murphy]

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

Where do you come up with this BS ???
It was so sucessfull they made millions of them and fought many Wars besides 2 world wars with them...
.303 was and is a Darn good cartridge and the Enfields are Excellent Rifles.

Well said mooseman.It gives me the shits when people who have probably never owned one say things based on info they found on the net.Ive shot plenty of ferals with mine.And there would be a score of japs that have been pushing up daisys for over 50 years who would agree its plenty accurate enough.

[Capt'n Mil Coll]

OK well we are talking about the No.5 Jungle carbine. The No1 or No5 Enfields are heavy duty proven battle rifles. The problem with the jungle carbines is they cut down a rifle and tried to use the .303 in it. This kicks the s*** out of your shoulder. I have a .30-06 Argentine Mauser that is the same problem. The rifle is smaller but the cartridge is not. After 6 rounds your ready to go home. But shoot the Garand and you can sit there all day. Try shooting your jungle carbine all day.

[irish murphy]

Hardly a challenge mate.I shoot my 300wm all night no problems while spotlighting out of the truck window.