Found a 303 Enfield, help me decide!!

thaddy1978 · 06-12-2008, 07:14 PM

Here's the deal, and I am sure some of you will recognize me for my questions in the Mauser department as well. Got $140 for a Nagant and couldn't decide what to do...get my 03 FFL and get either another Nagant, or a Yugo Mauser with that $140. Now, I just got back from a sports shop that had enfields...a 303 for $139.99. First, is that a good deal? I've looked up tons on the Mausers and Nagants, but know nothing about the Enfields. How accurate are they and at how far? What is their knock down at say, 300 yards? Easily scoped? This would be my everyday shooter. What should I look for (obvious signs that I shouldn't buy it)? The barrel looks pretty smooth/clean, nothing obviously wrong to me. Please, let me know!!!!!!!! I got myself "giddy as a school girl" and I'm a guy. Sell me on it. I may be picking it up tomorrow.

acarpenter · 06-12-2008, 07:26 PM

You should check out the exact Enfield that you have found. (I.E. No 4 MK1, No 1 MK3, No5, etc.)
That is a sweet deal IF and only if, it hasn't been sporterized already.
And of course it is in good shape, there is alot of rifling left, etc.
When you look down the bore, it should be bright, and shiny, but have sharp rifling all the way. Also check out the muzzle end and see if you can kinda make out the rifling. That is always a good sign.
As far as accuracy, I would say with the right ammo they are for the most part as accurate as a 91/30, and maybe a mauser. So still very good. My No. 4 shoot pretty darn well with the crappy Pakistani surplus ammo.
I would say fairly easy to scope, and a good everyday shooter.

thaddy1978 · 06-12-2008, 07:34 PM

The only things I remember about it from the store, are:

The "snub nose" everything goes out to the tip of the barrel. Part of the cocking mechanism on the bolt, that sticks out when the bolt is closed was thinner/smaller than the other 303 they had there. The words/numbers 1918 and BSA co (or something like that ) were on the side of it. I should have taken a closer look. I don't know if that narrows it down as far as the model. Oh, the rifling did look pretty clean and exact the whole way up!

cold queso · 06-12-2008, 07:41 PM

You're looking at a No1 Mk3* made by Birmingham Small Arms. I have one of these that is VERY accurate, and 3 years ago I took a huge doe in Wisconsin with Federal Hot-Cor 180 gr ammo. Now I load for it and get good accuracy with a number of different loads. If it's in decent shape, that's a steal anymore.

Just follow the already given advice to make sure the barrel is in good shape. I just had to sell a No4 Mk2 that was beautiful on the outside, but had pitted grooves and wouldn't group better than 4 inches at 50 yards.

Cyrano · 06-12-2008, 07:41 PM

Okay, Thaddy, let's see what we can tell you.

Enfield No. 4 Mark Is in .303 British are going for $20O at Southern Ohio Gun Distributors in very good condition with 1 ten-round magazine. MSRP is $350 or thereabouts. So the price of $140 is good.

As far as accuracy: in World War I there was a saying, "The Germans started the war with a hunting rifle; the Americans came to war with a target rifle; and the British went to war with a battle rifle." The 'battle rifle' referenced is an Enfield not too terribly different from the one you are looking at. Bullet performance is on a par with the 98K or the M1903 Springfield. Enfields killed plenty of Germans in both wars at 300 meters. With hunting ammo, they'll do a deer at that range. That good enough for you?

I've seen sporterized Enfields at the local gun shops that have scopes on them, but the work always looks like a gunsmithing job, because the rifle does not have a Weaver rail and does not come tapped for scope rings. There was a version of the No. 4 Mark I that were customized by the prewar African safari outfitters in London for the British Army to use as a sniper rifle during World War II, but those are very, very rare. I'm not saying it cannot be done, but to do it right won't come cheap. One major advantage you have if you decide to get a scope mounted is the Enfield's detachable magazine. No stripper clips to worry about and the bolt's already bent.

If you find one that is wrapped with brass wire ahead of the rear sight and behind the front sight, don't sweat it. That simply means the rifle is certified to launch grenades, which not all Enfields were. Those tend to be stronger than the run of the mill rifles.

If you have one or can borrow one, I suggest you get a no-go headspace gauge and check the headspacing on your Enfield before you buy it. I'm not sure - I hope one of the Enfield shooters will jump in here - but I think adjusting the headspacing on a No. 4 is a job for an armorer/gunsmith.

My opinion? Buy it. If you try it out and dislike it, you'll have no trouble selling it at a profit if it's in good shape. You can ask $200 for it on an auction site and probably get it. As I said, SOG thinks the retail price should be $350. You'd get enough money back to buy a good Mosin or a fair Mauser, and you'd still have enough left over to put in your application for your Class 03 Curio and Relic license.

thaddy1978 · 06-12-2008, 07:56 PM

Excellent Advice , guys! I am seriously debating. It is covered with cosmo, too, so it doesn't seem like a burnt out used one. If I get it, I'd probably also refinish the stock, which I've done on so many others...they just look so good refinished. It is a 303, vs. the 308. The snub nose, meaning everything comes to the end flush to the end of the barrel. I suppose I could call them and ask what type it is.

cold queso · 06-12-2008, 08:25 PM

if it's a 1918 BSA, it's a No1 Mk3*. Very nice gun for $140.

acarpenter · 06-13-2008, 12:57 AM

Agreed Queso.

Buy it.
Or at least go back to the gun shop and handle it again, knowing that is a great price. If you still like it alot, then make it happen.
The "snub nose" is definately a No1 Mk3 feature, and I really like those.

mdj696 · 06-13-2008, 01:40 PM

I may be wrong, but I've read are was told the Mark IIIs with wire wrapping (grenade launcher) were made up of Mark IIIs with shot out barrels. The Brits threw away nothing when it dame to arms.

matt760 · 06-13-2008, 02:05 PM

there's always scope mounts for the enfields listed in shotgun news for like 40 bucks. not sure if its all models or not. i dont think they require gunsmithing. my dad has a jungle carbine that somebody sporterized before he got it. (just removed the flash suppressor. personally i like it better this way) its got a wide angle nichols scope on it. i've only shot it a couple times but i remember blowin the crap out of a volley ball sized pumpkin at about 75 yards with it. i hunted with it one year before i got my -06. a little heavy but not a bad gun. i want to buy one of my own. id buy it if its in good shape

oh and i think federal makes good hunting ammo for it if thats what you intend to use it for

thaddy1978 · 06-13-2008, 04:37 PM

Picked it up this afternoon!!!! Got it apart and getting ready to start the sanding process. I got a better look at the 1917 BSA...rifling looked good till the end...it seemed to disappear towards the business end. I got a No1 MkIII 1941 Ishapore. Looks good through out. Can't wait to get her finished!

acarpenter · 06-13-2008, 08:34 PM

Good work.
Post pics.

Shoottathril200 · 06-18-2008, 09:32 PM

If it's a 1918 Enfield I would buy it just for reasons of historical...the one hundred year aniversary for the First World War is just around the corner. I've been trying to find one here on my end for sometime. Buy it....I assure you that you will not be disappointed. I have seven enfields and am quite happy I have bought, studied and shot them.

TheWanderingMind · 06-19-2008, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaddy1978

Picked it up this afternoon!!!! Got it apart and getting ready to start the sanding process. I got a better look at the 1917 BSA...rifling looked good till the end...it seemed to disappear towards the business end. I got a No1 MkIII 1941 Ishapore. Looks good through out. Can't wait to get her finished!

Congratulations, thaddy! That price is great! If push comes to shove on the accuracy, I'd take it to a gunsmith for counterboring. That will restore your crown a couple of inches back inside the muzzle, which won't hurt the appearance at all, and may bring your SMLE back on target! Those are wonderful rifles, and refinishing it will give you something worth looking at - and boost your pride immensely.

06-12-2008, 07:14 PM	#1
thaddy1978 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The great Shenandoah Valley Posts: 80	Found a 303 Enfield, help me decide!! Here's the deal, and I am sure some of you will recognize me for my questions in the Mauser department as well. Got $140 for a Nagant and couldn't decide what to do...get my 03 FFL and get either another Nagant, or a Yugo Mauser with that $140. Now, I just got back from a sports shop that had enfields...a 303 for $139.99. First, is that a good deal? I've looked up tons on the Mausers and Nagants, but know nothing about the Enfields. How accurate are they and at how far? What is their knock down at say, 300 yards? Easily scoped? This would be my everyday shooter. What should I look for (obvious signs that I shouldn't buy it)? The barrel looks pretty smooth/clean, nothing obviously wrong to me. Please, let me know!!!!!!!! I got myself "giddy as a school girl" and I'm a guy. Sell me on it. I may be picking it up tomorrow.

06-13-2008, 02:05 PM	#10
matt760 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 235	there's always scope mounts for the enfields listed in shotgun news for like 40 bucks. not sure if its all models or not. i dont think they require gunsmithing. my dad has a jungle carbine that somebody sporterized before he got it. (just removed the flash suppressor. personally i like it better this way) its got a wide angle nichols scope on it. i've only shot it a couple times but i remember blowin the crap out of a volley ball sized pumpkin at about 75 yards with it. i hunted with it one year before i got my -06. a little heavy but not a bad gun. i want to buy one of my own. id buy it if its in good shape oh and i think federal makes good hunting ammo for it if thats what you intend to use it for Last edited by matt760; 06-13-2008 at 02:13 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

06-12-2008, 07:26 PM	#2
acarpenter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 385	You should check out the exact Enfield that you have found. (I.E. No 4 MK1, No 1 MK3, No5, etc.) That is a sweet deal IF and only if, it hasn't been sporterized already. And of course it is in good shape, there is alot of rifling left, etc. When you look down the bore, it should be bright, and shiny, but have sharp rifling all the way. Also check out the muzzle end and see if you can kinda make out the rifling. That is always a good sign. As far as accuracy, I would say with the right ammo they are for the most part as accurate as a 91/30, and maybe a mauser. So still very good. My No. 4 shoot pretty darn well with the crappy Pakistani surplus ammo. I would say fairly easy to scope, and a good everyday shooter.

06-12-2008, 07:34 PM	#3
thaddy1978 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The great Shenandoah Valley Posts: 80	The only things I remember about it from the store, are: The "snub nose" everything goes out to the tip of the barrel. Part of the cocking mechanism on the bolt, that sticks out when the bolt is closed was thinner/smaller than the other 303 they had there. The words/numbers 1918 and BSA co (or something like that ) were on the side of it. I should have taken a closer look. I don't know if that narrows it down as far as the model. Oh, the rifling did look pretty clean and exact the whole way up!

06-12-2008, 07:41 PM	#4
cold queso Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 122	You're looking at a No1 Mk3* made by Birmingham Small Arms. I have one of these that is VERY accurate, and 3 years ago I took a huge doe in Wisconsin with Federal Hot-Cor 180 gr ammo. Now I load for it and get good accuracy with a number of different loads. If it's in decent shape, that's a steal anymore. Just follow the already given advice to make sure the barrel is in good shape. I just had to sell a No4 Mk2 that was beautiful on the outside, but had pitted grooves and wouldn't group better than 4 inches at 50 yards.

06-12-2008, 07:41 PM	#5
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 2,860	Okay, Thaddy, let's see what we can tell you. Enfield No. 4 Mark Is in .303 British are going for $20O at Southern Ohio Gun Distributors in very good condition with 1 ten-round magazine. MSRP is $350 or thereabouts. So the price of $140 is good. As far as accuracy: in World War I there was a saying, "The Germans started the war with a hunting rifle; the Americans came to war with a target rifle; and the British went to war with a battle rifle." The 'battle rifle' referenced is an Enfield not too terribly different from the one you are looking at. Bullet performance is on a par with the 98K or the M1903 Springfield. Enfields killed plenty of Germans in both wars at 300 meters. With hunting ammo, they'll do a deer at that range. That good enough for you? I've seen sporterized Enfields at the local gun shops that have scopes on them, but the work always looks like a gunsmithing job, because the rifle does not have a Weaver rail and does not come tapped for scope rings. There was a version of the No. 4 Mark I that were customized by the prewar African safari outfitters in London for the British Army to use as a sniper rifle during World War II, but those are very, very rare. I'm not saying it cannot be done, but to do it right won't come cheap. One major advantage you have if you decide to get a scope mounted is the Enfield's detachable magazine. No stripper clips to worry about and the bolt's already bent. If you find one that is wrapped with brass wire ahead of the rear sight and behind the front sight, don't sweat it. That simply means the rifle is certified to launch grenades, which not all Enfields were. Those tend to be stronger than the run of the mill rifles. If you have one or can borrow one, I suggest you get a no-go headspace gauge and check the headspacing on your Enfield before you buy it. I'm not sure - I hope one of the Enfield shooters will jump in here - but I think adjusting the headspacing on a No. 4 is a job for an armorer/gunsmith. My opinion? Buy it. If you try it out and dislike it, you'll have no trouble selling it at a profit if it's in good shape. You can ask $200 for it on an auction site and probably get it. As I said, SOG thinks the retail price should be $350. You'd get enough money back to buy a good Mosin or a fair Mauser, and you'd still have enough left over to put in your application for your Class 03 Curio and Relic license.

06-12-2008, 07:56 PM	#6
thaddy1978 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The great Shenandoah Valley Posts: 80	Excellent Advice , guys! I am seriously debating. It is covered with cosmo, too, so it doesn't seem like a burnt out used one. If I get it, I'd probably also refinish the stock, which I've done on so many others...they just look so good refinished. It is a 303, vs. the 308. The snub nose, meaning everything comes to the end flush to the end of the barrel. I suppose I could call them and ask what type it is.

06-12-2008, 08:25 PM	#7
cold queso Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 122	if it's a 1918 BSA, it's a No1 Mk3*. Very nice gun for $140.

06-13-2008, 12:57 AM	#8
acarpenter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 385	Agreed Queso. Buy it. Or at least go back to the gun shop and handle it again, knowing that is a great price. If you still like it alot, then make it happen. The "snub nose" is definately a No1 Mk3 feature, and I really like those.

06-13-2008, 01:40 PM	#9
mdj696 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 290 Images: 1	I may be wrong, but I've read are was told the Mark IIIs with wire wrapping (grenade launcher) were made up of Mark IIIs with shot out barrels. The Brits threw away nothing when it dame to arms.

06-13-2008, 04:37 PM	#11
thaddy1978 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The great Shenandoah Valley Posts: 80	Picked it up this afternoon!!!! Got it apart and getting ready to start the sanding process. I got a better look at the 1917 BSA...rifling looked good till the end...it seemed to disappear towards the business end. I got a No1 MkIII 1941 Ishapore. Looks good through out. Can't wait to get her finished!

06-13-2008, 08:34 PM	#12
acarpenter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 385	Good work. Post pics.

06-18-2008, 09:32 PM	#13
Shoottathril200 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: New Mexico Posts: 52	If it's a 1918 Enfield I would buy it just for reasons of historical...the one hundred year aniversary for the First World War is just around the corner. I've been trying to find one here on my end for sometime. Buy it....I assure you that you will not be disappointed. I have seven enfields and am quite happy I have bought, studied and shot them.