BSA Enfield Help

FirstCavApache6 · 05-06-2009, 07:31 AM

I am going through my grandfathers old rifles which I recently inherited and I came across one I have no experience with. It has BSA stamped on the butt pad and the barrel. It says 303 on it and nitro proved under a trademark that is the letters BM under a crown. Can anyone give me some idea of what this is? I want to know where I can buy magazines for it and if there are any websites that can give me some background. Thanks for any help you guys can give.

wunhunglo · 05-06-2009, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstCavApache6

I am going through my grandfathers old rifles which I recently inherited and I came across one I have no experience with. It has BSA stamped on the butt pad and the barrel. It says 303 on it and nitro proved under a trademark that is the letters BM under a crown. Can anyone give me some idea of what this is? I want to know where I can buy magazines for it and if there are any websites that can give me some background. Thanks for any help you guys can give.

Pictures pictures pictures.

Big Dog · 05-06-2009, 08:30 AM

Sounds like a basic Enfield rifle. Is it still unmodified (full military stock) or sporterised? Need pics!
Then we can discuss exact model and history.

Alan De Enfield · 05-06-2009, 08:54 AM

The BM under a crown is probably BNP under a crown which is the civilian proof mark for the Birmingham (UK) proof house.
BNP = Birmingham Nitro Prooved.

All rifles sold commercially ( or sold out of service) in the UK must have civilian proof marks even if they were military prooved

FirstCavApache6 · 05-06-2009, 10:36 PM

Here are some pics of the rifle, thanks for your help with this. My grandfather was a world war II and Korea vet and I am a disabled Army vet. I hope to get this restored to original condition in memory of him.

Alan De Enfield · 05-07-2009, 02:08 AM

It is restorable but it wont be a simple job.
You'll need a complete new 'wood' set. The forends do not just fit from one rifle to another (unless you are very, very lucky) so you will need some minimum wodworking skills to bed it properly.

The bigger issue is the rear sight. The original has been removed - probably by cutting it off - and the 'sporter' rear sight attached.
You will need to fit a new rear sight and inner band fixing which both slide over the barrel BEFORE the front sight is fitted to the barrel.
Not possible with the front sight in place. It would probably involve carefully cutting off the front sight mount (without damaging the barrel), fitting the new rear sight, inner band mount and then attaching a new complete front sight.

What the sights should look like - In the top picture, just in front of the rear sight, you can also see the inner band mount.
In the bottom picture you'll see how the sight mounts to a sleeve which is very tight to the barrel and will not pass over the front sight.

What looks like rust is Cosmoline (storage grease) this had been in storage since 1947 until I rebuilt it into a Rifle again.

With all respect to your Grandfather - if the rifle was like this when he departed, wouldnt it be better to keep it and use it as it was when he last used it ?

With regards to sourcing a magazine you need a magazine for a Lee Enfield No1. Plenty available from dealers or gunbroker.com

FirstCavApache6 · 05-07-2009, 07:32 AM

Wow, I thought the rifle was just needing a little spit and polish to be brought back to original. I guess I was a little off , huh. Is this what I have heard of as sporterized ? I thought that this was the way the rifle originally looked but I was surprised by the extensive wood checkering. It seemed a little fancy for a military issue. Do you have any idea how to tell when it was made? I don't wan't to drastically change the rifle at all, I will probably take it to a gunsmith to check all the critical parts and then use it as an occasional shooter for me and my son. Hopefully it will be around for him and my grandson one day. Thanks for all your help, this forum has been great for me. I am amazed by how many people are willing to share their knowledge with the other members.

Alan De Enfield · 05-07-2009, 10:07 AM

On the right hand side (under the bolt handle) of the butt socket it should have the manufacturer, date and model :
example :

GR (George Rex - King George)
ShtLe III* (Short Lee Enfield Mk3*)
1944 (obviously the date)

If its been FR'd or FTR'd (Factory Repaired or Factory Thorough Repair) it may be marked on the left side of the butt socket
If its been FR'd in India they scrub the RH side and put everything on the LH side butt socket : it may look like :

FirstCavApache6 · 05-07-2009, 08:06 PM

On the right hand side under the bolt handle it says B.S.A. co and on the left side on the safety lever there is III. On the tab at the front of the bolt is the initials DP. Serial number is 16651. Also in three different places there is the initials BM with a crown above it. I have heard on another gunboard that this is not a sporterized rifle but instead it was a hunting rifle made by BSA for big game hunting in Africa. The person told me it is very collectible as they are quite rare. That might explain why there is no date and the markings are different.

BigDawgFSJ · 05-08-2009, 06:41 PM

Your rifle, judging from the express rear sight and stock design, is a BSA Factory Lee Sporter. I am not an expert on these, but you might check on the other Lee Enfield Forums on the Net. There is a fellow that goes byt he User Name of Rowdy that seems to collect these.

Purdy · 05-08-2009, 09:26 PM

Yes I would not change a thing, this is a sporting rifle, just clean it up and remember your grandfather had a grand BSA sporter.

madcratebuilder · 05-09-2009, 06:12 AM

I agree with Purdy, leave it the way your granddad had it. It's a nice old sporter. If you want a original Enfield there are plenty of them, actually, millions of them.

FirstCavApache6 · 05-09-2009, 12:23 PM

Based on the info I have been able to assemble it's a Lee Sporter made by BSA. It most likely was made after 1914 due to the markings. I originally thought it was a chopped up Lee Enfiled but now I am glad I did some research. It will be sent to my gunsmith for an inspection of the bore and to see if the rust can be cleaned up. I won't do anything else to it, I want to keep it unrestored original. Thaks to all who helped me figure out what it is. I will post pics when it's cleaned up and hopefully a range report if I can find ammo.

ArcRoyal · 07-18-2009, 09:06 AM

I stumbled upon this post looking for stuff about Lee Enfield rifles.

This is a very cool rifle. So cool it was in a movie. Get the movie "The Ghost and the Darkness" and you will see this rifle in the movie. Not this particular rifle of course but the same type. And it's a good movie also.

JimBob · 07-18-2009, 06:38 PM

Many people today do not realize that in the heyday of African hunting the .303 was considered a big game caliber and used by many hunters for thin skinned game.That is a very fine sporter,I should be so lucky as to inherit one.For some general information check this sight out The Lee-Enfield Rifle

05-06-2009, 07:31 AM	#1
FirstCavApache6 Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains Posts: 18	BSA Enfield Help I am going through my grandfathers old rifles which I recently inherited and I came across one I have no experience with. It has BSA stamped on the butt pad and the barrel. It says 303 on it and nitro proved under a trademark that is the letters BM under a crown. Can anyone give me some idea of what this is? I want to know where I can buy magazines for it and if there are any websites that can give me some background. Thanks for any help you guys can give.

05-06-2009, 08:30 AM	#3
Big Dog Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 12,912	Sounds like a basic Enfield rifle. Is it still unmodified (full military stock) or sporterised? Need pics! Then we can discuss exact model and history. __________________ "A bold spirit embiggens the smallest man!" Jebediah Springfield

05-06-2009, 10:36 PM	#5
FirstCavApache6 Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains Posts: 18	BSA pictures Here are some pics of the rifle, thanks for your help with this. My grandfather was a world war II and Korea vet and I am a disabled Army vet. I hope to get this restored to original condition in memory of him. Attached Thumbnails

05-07-2009, 07:32 AM	#7
FirstCavApache6 Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains Posts: 18	Many Thanks Wow, I thought the rifle was just needing a little spit and polish to be brought back to original. I guess I was a little off , huh. Is this what I have heard of as sporterized ? I thought that this was the way the rifle originally looked but I was surprised by the extensive wood checkering. It seemed a little fancy for a military issue. Do you have any idea how to tell when it was made? I don't wan't to drastically change the rifle at all, I will probably take it to a gunsmith to check all the critical parts and then use it as an occasional shooter for me and my son. Hopefully it will be around for him and my grandson one day. Thanks for all your help, this forum has been great for me. I am amazed by how many people are willing to share their knowledge with the other members.

05-07-2009, 08:06 PM	#9
FirstCavApache6 Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains Posts: 18	Markings On the right hand side under the bolt handle it says B.S.A. co and on the left side on the safety lever there is III. On the tab at the front of the bolt is the initials DP. Serial number is 16651. Also in three different places there is the initials BM with a crown above it. I have heard on another gunboard that this is not a sporterized rifle but instead it was a hunting rifle made by BSA for big game hunting in Africa. The person told me it is very collectible as they are quite rare. That might explain why there is no date and the markings are different. Last edited by FirstCavApache6; 05-08-2009 at 07:29 AM. Reason: New info

05-06-2009, 08:54 AM	#4
Alan De Enfield Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Eastern England Posts: 278	The BM under a crown is probably BNP under a crown which is the civilian proof mark for the Birmingham (UK) proof house. BNP = Birmingham Nitro Prooved. All rifles sold commercially ( or sold out of service) in the UK must have civilian proof marks even if they were military prooved

05-07-2009, 02:08 AM	#6
Alan De Enfield Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Eastern England Posts: 278	It is restorable but it wont be a simple job. You'll need a complete new 'wood' set. The forends do not just fit from one rifle to another (unless you are very, very lucky) so you will need some minimum wodworking skills to bed it properly. The bigger issue is the rear sight. The original has been removed - probably by cutting it off - and the 'sporter' rear sight attached. You will need to fit a new rear sight and inner band fixing which both slide over the barrel BEFORE the front sight is fitted to the barrel. Not possible with the front sight in place. It would probably involve carefully cutting off the front sight mount (without damaging the barrel), fitting the new rear sight, inner band mount and then attaching a new complete front sight. What the sights should look like - In the top picture, just in front of the rear sight, you can also see the inner band mount. In the bottom picture you'll see how the sight mounts to a sleeve which is very tight to the barrel and will not pass over the front sight. What looks like rust is Cosmoline (storage grease) this had been in storage since 1947 until I rebuilt it into a Rifle again. With all respect to your Grandfather - if the rifle was like this when he departed, wouldnt it be better to keep it and use it as it was when he last used it ? With regards to sourcing a magazine you need a magazine for a Lee Enfield No1. Plenty available from dealers or gunbroker.com

05-07-2009, 10:07 AM	#8
Alan De Enfield Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Eastern England Posts: 278	On the right hand side (under the bolt handle) of the butt socket it should have the manufacturer, date and model : example : GR (George Rex - King George) ShtLe III* (Short Lee Enfield Mk3*) 1944 (obviously the date) If its been FR'd or FTR'd (Factory Repaired or Factory Thorough Repair) it may be marked on the left side of the butt socket If its been FR'd in India they scrub the RH side and put everything on the LH side butt socket : it may look like :

05-08-2009, 06:41 PM	#10
BigDawgFSJ Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1	That is a BSA Sporter!! Your rifle, judging from the express rear sight and stock design, is a BSA Factory Lee Sporter. I am not an expert on these, but you might check on the other Lee Enfield Forums on the Net. There is a fellow that goes byt he User Name of Rowdy that seems to collect these.

05-08-2009, 09:26 PM	#11
Purdy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Montana Posts: 430	Yes I would not change a thing, this is a sporting rifle, just clean it up and remember your grandfather had a grand BSA sporter.

05-09-2009, 06:12 AM	#12
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 2,395 Images: 3	I agree with Purdy, leave it the way your granddad had it. It's a nice old sporter. If you want a original Enfield there are plenty of them, actually, millions of them. __________________ Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.

05-09-2009, 12:23 PM	#13
FirstCavApache6 Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains Posts: 18	Lee Sporter Based on the info I have been able to assemble it's a Lee Sporter made by BSA. It most likely was made after 1914 due to the markings. I originally thought it was a chopped up Lee Enfiled but now I am glad I did some research. It will be sent to my gunsmith for an inspection of the bore and to see if the rust can be cleaned up. I won't do anything else to it, I want to keep it unrestored original. Thaks to all who helped me figure out what it is. I will post pics when it's cleaned up and hopefully a range report if I can find ammo.

07-18-2009, 09:06 AM	#14
ArcRoyal Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1	I stumbled upon this post looking for stuff about Lee Enfield rifles. This is a very cool rifle. So cool it was in a movie. Get the movie "The Ghost and the Darkness" and you will see this rifle in the movie. Not this particular rifle of course but the same type. And it's a good movie also.

07-18-2009, 06:38 PM	#15
JimBob Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: East Central Illinois Posts: 725	Many people today do not realize that in the heyday of African hunting the .303 was considered a big game caliber and used by many hunters for thin skinned game.That is a very fine sporter,I should be so lucky as to inherit one.For some general information check this sight out The Lee-Enfield Rifle