Lee Enfield SMLE no. 4 Mk. 1/3 Savage

[budget&surplus]

i have a SMLE no.4 mk. 1/3 built by savage in St. Albans Vermont. and is really accurate even with the battle sight. (i call it a ghost ring, and the micrometer is still a 'lil too big for extreme precision). but for cheap ammo 2" at 100 yds. upon first shooting the rifle surprised me. anyone know if this particular rifle is rare or anything, i'm new to the SMLE world.

[billy]

ive got one too and i really like it.

here ya go buddy


Collecting and Shooting the Military Surplus Rifle (2006) - Surplusrifle.com

[timberlord]

Savage made somewhere around 1.2 million No.4 Mkl*'s , so they're not rare .
The 1941 Mkl Savage is rare . Very few of these where produced.
Accurate , with a better fit / finish than the Brit counterparts , IMHO .
I have one also.
Your rifle has been FTR'd in England and had the Mkll trigger group installed ( hense Mk1/3 )

[budget&surplus]

Serial no. 52 82c3642 No. 4 mk. 1/3 (F) FTR
S No.4 mk. 1*
Produced in St. Albans Vermont, can anyone tell me about when mine was made in referrence to the Serial No. (mine is in pretty good shape but needs a 'lil cosmetic facelift Had a lot of grit inside the action finally got the better part of it out. Cosmoline collected this maybe? or simply abused.

[Tulamosin]

Not produced in St. Albans, Vermont, that's part of the import stamp. Savage Enfields were produced at Chicopee Falls, Massachussets.

[Alan De Enfield]

Originally Posted by budget&surplus

Serial no. 52 82c3642 No. 4 mk. 1/3 (F) FTR
S No.4 mk. 1*
Produced in St. Albans Vermont, can anyone tell me about when mine was made in referrence to the Serial No. (mine is in pretty good shape but needs a 'lil cosmetic facelift Had a lot of grit inside the action finally got the better part of it out. Cosmoline collected this maybe? or simply abused.

Difficult to identify manufacturing dates, the 'early' Savage's had the dates on them.

I'm a bit confused by your serial number "52 82C3642" - the "52" doesnt belong. - Maybe that refers to the FTR date ?

Savage serial numbers started 0C0001 - thru 0C9999 then 1C0001 - 1C9999 and so on so yours is the 823,642 No4 rifle they produced. Its going to be pretty late on.
My '13C' is 1942 so yours is getting on for 700,000 rifles later.

I'm guessing that it was upgraded to a Mk1/3 in the 1952 FTR at Fazakerly (Near Liverpool) England.

In the varying climatic conditions around the world it was found that the No4Mk1 ( and Mk1*) suffered with accuracy problems, this was found to be caused by forend wood shrinking / growing / warping and as the trigger etc was mounted onto the trigger guard this change in the woodwork affected the trigger, which affected the accuracy.
To overcome this a modification was made to mount the trigger to the actual action, these modified rifles became No4 Mk1/3.

See pics below top picture is a No4 Mk1* and the bottom picture is the action mounted trigger on a No4 Mk1/3

[billy]

i was hoping our very own enfield historian would chime in.
thanks alan

[stephaneb]

Alan IS really the best I understand everything he is saying....

[Alan De Enfield]

Originally Posted by stephaneb

Alan IS really the best I understand everything he is saying....

Originally Posted by billy

i was hoping our very own enfield historian would chime in.
thanks alan

C'mon guys dont put me on a pedestal I dont deserve - Like all learning, all I'm doing is feeding back the knowledge that others have been kind enough to share with me over the last few years, plus the odd 'tricks' I've picked up playing with (and building up) various Enfields.

All I want is for the 'next generation' of "Enfielditus" sufferers to have a little knowledge that they can pass on.

[billy]

Originally Posted by Alan De Enfield

C'mon guys dont put me on a pedestal I dont deserve - Like all learning, all I'm doing is feeding back the knowledge that others have been kind enough to share with me over the last few years, plus the odd 'tricks' I've picked up playing with (and building up) various Enfields.

All I want is for the 'next generation' of "Enfielditus" sufferers to have a little knowledge that they can pass on.

kinda like me and my encyclopedic knowledge of blue slugs.....

[stephaneb]

mine is more recent then if I understand properly... serial is 52 (but that seems like the date of refurnishing) and 74C9965....
(you say 700 000 rifle later than yours ? or 70 000 ?)

How many were produced in a year ? especially at this time where I guess a lot was produced ? Could this give a good estimate of the date ?

[Alan De Enfield]

Originally Posted by stephaneb

mine is more recent then if I understand properly... serial is 52 (but that seems like the date of refurnishing) and 74C9965....
(you say 700 000 rifle later than yours ? or 70 000 ?)

How many were produced in a year ? especially at this time where I guess a lot was produced ? Could this give a good estimate of the date ?

If you drop the C out of the serial number that gives you the rifle number (if you see what I mean).

I cannot remember off hand my 13C's number but lets say 13C2345.

My rifle would have been the 132,345th rifle produced, yours would have been the 749,965th rifle produced, ie, 617620 rifles between them.

The actual production numbers of Savage No4s is not known for definite but the general concensus is around 1.2 million.
Production started July 1941, and like all production was allegedly a pretty slow start and it took a while to ramp-up (as Timberlord says 1941's are not easy to find).
Production ceased June 1944 (but there are some who believe it may have gone on into 1945)

Purely a guess - I'd say that there would not be a great difference in dates between prefix 74 & 82 (its 'only' 80,000 rifles - probably 1 months production) and would put them around late 1943

[stephaneb]

woa yeah I was not really awake.... 700 000 it is.... sorry
At least I am glad to know that production was during the war and that this rifle may have a little more history than having being chopped up to make a sporter for hunting I guess...

There is something magical holding a piece of history that still perform. Budget and surplus, you will love that rifle.
As for the Enfielditus, I have a good vaccine.... my wife But that is OK, I am happy with the one I got

[budget&surplus]

I've always wanted an Enfield rifle. Being a "history hobbyist" it really adds to the surreal feel that those poor 'ole chaps had to go through and simply touching a piece of history is a previledge and own own it is out-of-this-world IMHO. Not to mention it's british, and that I love, because of the careful attention to looks/function impresses me. (funny my first name is Britt) and so holding this rifle that most likely was used against the jerries or the itallians (before they switched sides) is amazing....Thanks for the info guys, I'll keep adding to my collection

[Laufer]

budget:
Yes, and probably used against the Japanese.

I suppose that carrying heavy bags of fish & chips motivated the British to create the handy little Jungle Carbine. It is a lot lighter than my Russian MN 44.

Alan?

[timberlord]

Originally Posted by budget&surplus

I've always wanted an Enfield rifle. Being a "history hobbyist" it really adds to the surreal feel that those poor 'ole chaps had to go through and simply touching a piece of history is a previledge and own own it is out-of-this-world IMHO. Not to mention it's british, and that I love, because of the careful attention to looks/function impresses me. (funny my first name is Britt) and so holding this rifle that most likely was used against the jerries or the itallians (before they switched sides) is amazing....Thanks for the info guys, I'll keep adding to my collection

Your Savage may be Brit design ...but built in the good ol' U S of A
I refer to my Longbranch as " All Canadian ..eh ! "

Incidently ,
I was out shooting and I brought my '55 M1 Garand along with my '43 Longbranch Mk1* .
I heated up the Garand first , then set it down to cool and picked up the No4...holy ...! The No4 felt light as a feather after handling the M1 . Nobody around , so I shot it with one hand...lol
My hats off for those young fellas who carried the M1 all those years.

[Alan De Enfield]

Originally Posted by Laufer

budget:
Yes, and probably used against the Japanese.

I suppose that carrying heavy bags of fish & chips motivated the British to create the handy little Jungle Carbine. It is a lot lighter than my Russian MN 44.

Alan?

I think it was more a case of the weight saving on the No5 allowed for the Fish & chips to be carried AS WELL, with no more weight than a No4.

A No4 weighs in at 9 lbs
A No5 weighs in at 7 lbs 2 1/2 oz

Therefore we could carry a 'pound' of chips ( or fries to you foreigners) and a 'pound' of fish for no extra load.

Reminds me of the first time I went to the states - I ordered Steak & Chips, the waiter asked if I was sure, I confirmed I was, the Chef came out from the back & asked if I was sure, I confirmed I was sure.
Sure enough the steak came out with 'chips' (or crisps as we know them)

One nation divided by two languages.

[Laufer]

Alan D. E.:
Despite being qualified to be a LE Chief Guru-it's too much. You are trained at psychological warfare with photos of good food.
Next, we colonials could be tormented by photos of long-legged foxy English babes in mini skirts.

Causing hunger pangs among 'unwashed' provincials is not fair play. I could wolf down that food with delicious English mild, lager and bitter all night in the Cotswolds etc, after surviving multiple roundabouts with no close calls.