No4 Size 3 Bolt Head

[Alan De Enfield]

Unbelievable - a size 3 bolt head selling for over $100.
(I've got a couple of spare ones that can go to a new home for that price !!!)

Enfield #4 bolt head size 3 new : Small Parts at GunBroker.com

[Laufer]

Alan:
Do you mind a few questions? Am on the road but can check for "pm"s if you prefer.
My #4 has a '3' bolthead. I won't have the normal basic set of reloading equipment for several weeks. One of you guys over there said that Prvi Partizan can be reloaded up to about seven times. Have only watched a guy reload a few rounds, once (for his Swiss K-31).

With a '3' bolt head, (will buy) the simplest single-stage press and planned light powder loads, is this common with Prvi, even if for just 4-5 times (only neck-size, they say...)?
My only objective is cost, to allow cheap surplus to last much longer ("45 min. required reserve fuel + some cont.").

From what I've read, a 0 or 1 head is better headspace than a 3.
The guys who sold me my second #5 yesterday did not know, and there is no number on this "J. Carbine" bolthead.
My #4 bolthead is a '3' and my first JC is a '1'.

[Alan De Enfield]

Laufer :
I think maybe you are getting a little confused by combing Bolt head size / headspace and reloading, so just to break it down a little :

The headspace measurements on a LE are 64 thou min and 74 thou max (0.064" / 0.074"). Not your fancy US SAMMI specifications but British military specifications as it should be.
When a LE is new (ideally) it would have had a 0 (Zero) size bolt head fitted, but due to manufacturing tolerances it may have been a size 1.
As the rifle is used, the recoil compresses the locking lugs, the bolt, and the bolt head (simplified to explain the principle) therefore the bolt in effects shortens and the headspace increases, fit the next size "up" bolt head and away you go again for thousands more rounds, when it happens again, fit the next size "up" bolt head and away you go again.

No4 Bolt heads were made in 4 sizes (0.1.2. & 3) with a very, very small number of size 4 made (I've only ever heard about 3 examples).
When a number 3 would not correct the headpace a new bolt was tried with bolt head 0, 1, 2, or 3. If the headspace still could not be corrected it meant the lugs were bug****ed and the rifle was scrapped.

Now - to confuse the issue further the bolt head size 'numbers' are almost meaningless. Some time ago I actually measured in excess of 100 No4 bolt heads and got some interesting results.
Size 0 went from 0.620" to 0.631"
Size 1 went from 0.622" to 0.635"
Size 2 went from 0.630" to 0.638"
Size 3 went from 0.632" to 0.640"

So as you can see you could replace a size 2 bolt head with a size 3 and actually worsen your headspace (a smaller bolthead) If you need to tighten up your headspace specify a DIMENSION not a bolt head SIZE.

So - get a bolt head to give you a headspace between 64 & 74 thou and its going to be correct - It doesnt matter if its a size 0 or a size 3. The amount of rounds we'll put down an LE are unlikely to mean we'll need to replace the bolthead in our lifetime.

Now - reloading :
We've got the headspace sorted out, and as we have seen it doesnt matter what bolt head is fitted so we dont need any special equipment for reloading.
1) Check your Military brass to see if its Boxer or Berdan primed - Berdan primers are a "pain" and for those you'll need special equipment.
2) If you are buying US made brass (Remington, Winchester etc) it tends to be 'thin' and you wont get as many reloads, the worst brass in "the world" seems to be S&B. Enfields have 'loose' chambers and the S&B does not seem to be able to cope with them. 2 or 3 reloads and you'll have case seperations.
3) The best brass on the market today (if you cannot find the Greek HXP) is Privi. I'm on about my 10th reload (but do neck size only) for some of it and I dont reload 'light' either.

Hopefully thats answered the question, but if not drop me a PM or another post.
Alan

[madcratebuilder]

Originally Posted by Alan De Enfield

Unbelievable - a size 3 bolt head selling for over $100.
(I've got a couple of spare ones that can go to a new home for that price !!!)

Enfield #4 bolt head size 3 new : Small Parts at GunBroker.com

Someone wanted that very badly. I see 2's and 3's on evil bay, I guess I should be buying them.

[Laufer]

Mr. De Enfield: Thanks a bunch.

That was a perfect explanation, and answers my main questions about reloading.

Glad that I bought 200 rds. of new Prvi.

About the new #5 with no bolt number (the rear side says "F 5"), would most owners take the chance and shoot it, having a fairly tough action, all matching numbers and the entire rifle being in very good condition?

[MJ11]

Not all bolts heads are equal. They will run all over the place.

[JimBob]

A question for the LE smiths out there.When fitting a bolt head to correct headspace problems is it fitted as is or is it customary to stone or otherwise surface the face of the bolt head to achieve the fit desired?

[Alan De Enfield]

Originally Posted by JimBob

A question for the LE smiths out there.When fitting a bolt head to correct headspace problems is it fitted as is or is it customary to stone or otherwise surface the face of the bolt head to achieve the fit desired?

Two different answers depending on the LE.

No1's (SMLE) bolt heads were all made 'oversize' and then stoned down by the armourers to give the best (minimum) headspace, When an armourer had amassed a stockpile of 'old' bolt heads he would sort through the box and find one to fit, or one that needed a minimum of stoning.

No4s / No5s
The bolt heads were made in different sizes (as mentioned above) so the stoning was not necessary, the armourer would sort through his stock and fit the one that gave the correct headspace.

BUT

Fitting a new bolt head is not just about headspace.
The bolt body takes a 'pounding' and the ends of the bolt body can start to peen over (just like a Chisel handle when hit with a hammer enough times) this also shortens the bolt and can affect bolt head rotation.
You MUST not have a bolt head over rotating by more than a few degrees or all of the recoil is being taken by the threads and within a 'few' rounds your headspace will be all over the place again.
Before fitting a new bolt head, check it gives the correct headpace and does not over rotate.
The bolt head should align with the big locking lug.

If you cannot get alignment then a new (not secondhand - it may well have the same problem) bolt body may be in order, you may then find that your headpsace is OK with your old bolt head.
Everything is interlinked, change one part and it can affect the next one.





Pictures courtesy of Ed Horton

[JimBob]

Thank you sir,information much appreciated.

[big boomer]

I once gave info on where to find bolt heads you could get a set of 4 or so under a hundred I think it was a 1 2 3 and 4 but the memory ifs foggy tonight and I can't remember the shops name if you need some i will try to find out just let me know.

[Edward horton]

As an experiment on a low mileage Mk.2 that had been center bedded by the South Africans, I fitted a #2 bolt head that was very tight fitting or just barely aligned with the right locking lug. I wanted the headgap clearance or the “air gap” between the case and the bolt face to be to be aproximatly .003 (three thousandths) and this put the head space at aproximatly .061 or .003 under minimum headspace.


After fire forming 50 cases I lost .002 (two thousandths) and the bolthead came very close to over rotating. Used bolt heads and bolts do NOT have perfectly flat mating surfaces and they will break-in and seat to each other and thus loose head space.


The Enfield when proof pressure checked used two proofing rounds, one dry and one oiled, the dry case was to proof the barrel and chamber and the oiled round was used to seat the locking lugs and the bolt head. After the proof testing the Enfield was checked with a .067 head space gauge and if the bolt closed on this gauge the Enfield failed proof testing due to excessive setback of the locking lugs and bolt head.


Bottom line, you can replace a bolt head with a longer one (or so you thought) and end up with MORE head space than when you started.

[wunhunglo]

Originally Posted by big boomer

I once gave info on where to find bolt heads you could get a set of 4 or so under a hundred I think it was a 1 2 3 and 4 but the memory ifs foggy tonight and I can't remember the shops name if you need some i will try to find out just let me know.

Tennessee gun parts do them.

Tennessee Gun Parts

[wunhunglo]

Originally Posted by Alan De Enfield

Unbelievable - a size 3 bolt head selling for over $100.
(I've got a couple of spare ones that can go to a new home for that price !!!)

Wish I'd known that last year when I needed one! That's me always too late as usual; maybe I should have been American.

[gandog56]

Mine still has a #0 in it.