My latest Lee-Enfield Rifle.

TomcatPC · 10-28-2009, 10:28 PM

Hello

I just bought this No. 4 Mk.I Rifle about 5 hours ago. It a Brummie* Yob, being made by Birmingham Small Arms at Shirley in 1943.

All of my other Lee-Enfield rifles (an "entire collection" of three, including this one) were bought in "sporterised" condition and I pieced them back together. This was my first one that was complete. The bolt and action body number match. Other than a broken extractor spring (which I do have a spare...not a new thing for me), and a safety catch that I need to replace, there is a light bit of surface corrosion that I think will come off with some Kroil fairly easy, overall it's in good shape.

This photo was taken prior to a good take down and thorough cleaning. I might post "after photos" as well, along with other details I find.
Thanks
Mark

*Brummie-is a native of Birmingham, West Midlands. I'm certain most of us already knew that, but maybe not all.

Iron_Colonel · 10-28-2009, 10:41 PM

Hey congrats on your rifle! Looks like it ought to be a good shooter. I really like the two No.4 rifles that I have. They are both very accurate. I wouldn't have a problem taking it hunting with irons at all.

Palladin8 · 10-29-2009, 11:55 AM

A beautiful looking rifle. Hope it cleans up nicely and shoots great. Keep us posted.

captsquirrel · 10-29-2009, 01:50 PM

Very nice! I'd like to see some "after" photos. Like P8 said keep us posted.

chris l · 10-29-2009, 02:29 PM

Nice rifle!

I'll be in Wrington tomorrow, and in Brum, near Shirley at the weekend; I'll have a pint in the Plough for you.... and toast BSA whilst I'm up there.

:-)

TomcatPC · 10-29-2009, 09:40 PM

First go to the Plough, then the Golden Lion LOL! I think there is a third boozer in Wrington? Good old Somerset Scrumpy LOL...heard all about that LOL. I have not been to the West Country yet...God I willing someday soon. Dad's family is from there...probably had that sussed though LOL. My direct family has been in the US for three generations, but I'm almost positive I have family in the Bristol area still. If you come across the names, Lodge, Bartlett, Sampson, let me know please. I think I had (might still have?) family in Blagdon, Backwell, and other places in the Chew Valley and the Mendips, and of course Bristol. Enough of family talk LOL. I love to talk about my English heritage, but more of that later.

OK, I got the rifle sorted out. Took it apart, the whole lot etc. one coat of Boiled Linseed Oil so far, probably more in the next few days. The wood looked good to start with, not perfect, but better than some I have seen, very happy with it. I did not need to go into heavy de-greasing etc, just a quick wipe off, then hand rubbed linseed oil, let it soak for a bit, then wipe off excess. I'll see how it looks in the next few days.

The rifle it's self...overall good. The exterior under the wood was great, nice bluing remaining. The minor surface corrosion on the receiver, cleaned up all right, but if looked at in a certain light, retains a bit of "plum" colour...I can live with that though. The muzzle, muzzle cap, and upper band are about the same, not too bad, but not pristine either...life goes on...LOL.

The bore was dirty took quite a few swabs and brushings to get it clean. The lands are bright and shining, with no visible corrosion on them, and from what I can tell, the gooves look decent. Living in a city in the Lower 48, access to a location that I can fire at is sporadic to say the least...only God knows when I will find out how this rifle shoots.

I think I mentioned about a broken extractor spring in the first posting?...I had a spare and that problem is sorted. I will be ordering a couple spares soon. I found out that this rifle only has the lever for the safety, there was no inner "safety catch". Did some research in the C. Stratton book, and found out this is correct, the Mk.II safety was not threaded for the inner safety catch. Wartime economy measure, from what I heard, these safeties were deemed unsafe and changed, mine was not...yet (I will keep the original of course).

It looks like my rifle was never FTR'd, not FTR markings at all,it appears the finish is original. All in all, I'm happy with it. I will take more photos in a day or two.
Thanks
Mark

Edward horton · 10-30-2009, 03:31 PM

Your Enfield in all probability came from Turkey, if the Enfield had remained in British or Commonwealth service the safety would have been upgraded at unit level by an Armourer.
The Turks didn't “FTR” their Enfield's they simply cannibalized parts off other Enfield's.
Note: Enfields were finished in RAW linseed oil and were hot dipped in a tank and allowed to soak, todays BLO is fake and contains resins and dryers and which can be very toxic. Read the MSDS for your product because most U.S. Products recommend wearing protective rubber gloves. Pure raw linseed oil is non-toxic and can be rubbed in by hand.

Use some foam bore cleaner in your Enfield, the U.S. Military is using it now from small arms to field pieces.

Dallas · 10-30-2009, 04:38 PM

It looks great I hope it shoots well for you. What is the going price for a good condition Lee Enfield these days?

TomcatPC · 10-30-2009, 06:29 PM

Here is the after photo...not sure how much different it is? LOL.
Thanks
Mark

TomcatPC · 10-30-2009, 06:35 PM

View of the bolt handle and trigger guard, notice how they are the type used on the No.5 Mk.I Rifle. The bolt is numbered to the action body and the number appears to be original and not re-numbered. I know they No.5 Mk.I was made at BSA Shirley, so the use of this bolt and trigger guard is no big deal, except that this rifle was built in 1943, and from what I have read No.5 Mk.I production started in 1944.

TomcatPC · 10-30-2009, 06:38 PM

View of the Mk.II Safety Assembly, notice the lack of safety catch.

TomcatPC · 10-30-2009, 06:50 PM

And the view of the top of the receiver, this is the "plum" colour I mentioned before...oh well, I've seen worse. It looks a lot worse in the photos than it does in person. This is no "collector" rifle by any means, perfect for WWII reenacting though, which I will most likely use it for. It will be some time until I can find a safe place to fire it at. If I still lived in Alaska, I could fire it almost anytime, here in the lower 48...it will be some time.

Somebody asked about the price of Lee-Enfield Rifles...I paid $150 (U.S.) for this one, so they are getting up there.
Thanks
Mark

frenchy · 01-07-2010, 11:07 PM

Beauteeeful TomcatPC $150 is a good price by what I've seen!

madcratebuilder · 01-08-2010, 07:57 AM

Tomcat, did you ever dig around about that No5 style bolt handle? I have a 4/1 of unknown manufacture coming to me with a No5 style bolt, not sure about it being matching. I also have a Maltby with what 'appears' to be a matching No5 style bolt. I have seen a few pic's of other rifles with the No5 style. Apparently they were not all that uncommon.

here's the Maltby.

TomcatPC · 01-12-2010, 09:02 PM

Hello

No, I never did get any more information on why my No.4 Mk.I has a No.5 Mk.I "Style" bolt handle knob. I say "style" because maybe that was just one variant that was in production prior to the production of the No. 5 Mk.I Rifle.

I was under the impression that actual production of the No.5 Mk.I started in 1944. My No.4 Mk.I is of 1943 vintage...the number on my bolt matches the number on the action body, and it looks to be an "original" match, not a bolt that was "re-numbered" after an FTR job. Not too concerned about it LOL, just grateful to have the rifle in the first place LOL. Maybe one day I will get it sussed out LOL.

Hello Chris,

Did you have fun at the Plough in Wrington LOL?

Thanks
Mark

madcratebuilder · 01-13-2010, 11:23 AM

The hollow bolt handle has been discussed on a few other forums. They are not uncommon at all. The No4 hollow bolt handle has a larger outside diameter then the No5 and the hole is smaller diameter. There is mention of it in Stratton's book.

I have two No4's now with the hollow handle and one spare bolt that's a No4 hollow.

Alan De Enfield · 01-14-2010, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madcratebuilder

The hollow bolt handle has been discussed on a few other forums. They are not uncommon at all. The No4 hollow bolt handle has a larger outside diameter then the No5 and the hole is smaller diameter. There is mention of it in Stratton's book.

I have two No4's now with the hollow handle and one spare bolt that's a No4 hollow.

A 'Real' No4T
A picture from the book "D-Day, A battle for Normandy" by Antony Beevor
ISBN 978-0-670-88703-3
Grooved handguard, hollowed out bolt handle.

frenchy · 01-15-2010, 12:48 AM

Thanks for that great picture Alan!

chris l · 01-15-2010, 02:16 PM

[/QUOTE]
Hello Chris,

Did you have fun at the Plough in Wrington LOL?

Thanks
Mark[/QUOTE]

Just back from Bristol, and, as a friend was driving, and it's Friday, a stop at the Plough....

I can't believe that cider is made out of apples. Apples seem so harmless.

I need to go lie down.

Oh yes, I think we went to the Lion too.

Some where else, too... big. Dark. No. Had my eyes shut.

spinecracker · 01-15-2010, 02:42 PM

Guys, you are making me homesick for English pubs and cider. I remember the good old days of getting drunk and then waking up the next morning with a splitting headache and feeling like a family of badgers had moved into my mouth - and crapped everywhere. Ah, those were the days....

10-28-2009, 10:28 PM	#1
TomcatPC Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Between Homer, Alaska and Wrington, Somerset, England. (Toledo, Ohio... a long way from where I want to be) Posts: 576	My latest Lee-Enfield Rifle. Hello I just bought this No. 4 Mk.I Rifle about 5 hours ago. It a Brummie* Yob, being made by Birmingham Small Arms at Shirley in 1943. All of my other Lee-Enfield rifles (an "entire collection" of three, including this one) were bought in "sporterised" condition and I pieced them back together. This was my first one that was complete. The bolt and action body number match. Other than a broken extractor spring (which I do have a spare...not a new thing for me), and a safety catch that I need to replace, there is a light bit of surface corrosion that I think will come off with some Kroil fairly easy, overall it's in good shape. This photo was taken prior to a good take down and thorough cleaning. I might post "after photos" as well, along with other details I find. Thanks Mark *Brummie-is a native of Birmingham, West Midlands. I'm certain most of us already knew that, but maybe not all. __________________ The .303" Ctg., Helping Englishmen express their emotions since 1888. Peace-Time Pseudo-Veteran

10-28-2009, 10:41 PM	#2
Iron_Colonel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Washington St. Posts: 3,769	Hey congrats on your rifle! Looks like it ought to be a good shooter. I really like the two No.4 rifles that I have. They are both very accurate. I wouldn't have a problem taking it hunting with irons at all. __________________ Mosin Nagant evangelist on a mission to convert YOU!

10-29-2009, 01:50 PM	#4
captsquirrel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV. Posts: 1,723	Very nice! I'd like to see some "after" photos. Like P8 said keep us posted. __________________ Vegetables are not food. Vegetables are what food eats.

10-29-2009, 09:40 PM	#6
TomcatPC Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Between Homer, Alaska and Wrington, Somerset, England. (Toledo, Ohio... a long way from where I want to be) Posts: 576	First go to the Plough, then the Golden Lion LOL! I think there is a third boozer in Wrington? Good old Somerset Scrumpy LOL...heard all about that LOL. I have not been to the West Country yet...God I willing someday soon. Dad's family is from there...probably had that sussed though LOL. My direct family has been in the US for three generations, but I'm almost positive I have family in the Bristol area still. If you come across the names, Lodge, Bartlett, Sampson, let me know please. I think I had (might still have?) family in Blagdon, Backwell, and other places in the Chew Valley and the Mendips, and of course Bristol. Enough of family talk LOL. I love to talk about my English heritage, but more of that later. OK, I got the rifle sorted out. Took it apart, the whole lot etc. one coat of Boiled Linseed Oil so far, probably more in the next few days. The wood looked good to start with, not perfect, but better than some I have seen, very happy with it. I did not need to go into heavy de-greasing etc, just a quick wipe off, then hand rubbed linseed oil, let it soak for a bit, then wipe off excess. I'll see how it looks in the next few days. The rifle it's self...overall good. The exterior under the wood was great, nice bluing remaining. The minor surface corrosion on the receiver, cleaned up all right, but if looked at in a certain light, retains a bit of "plum" colour...I can live with that though. The muzzle, muzzle cap, and upper band are about the same, not too bad, but not pristine either...life goes on...LOL. The bore was dirty took quite a few swabs and brushings to get it clean. The lands are bright and shining, with no visible corrosion on them, and from what I can tell, the gooves look decent. Living in a city in the Lower 48, access to a location that I can fire at is sporadic to say the least...only God knows when I will find out how this rifle shoots. I think I mentioned about a broken extractor spring in the first posting?...I had a spare and that problem is sorted. I will be ordering a couple spares soon. I found out that this rifle only has the lever for the safety, there was no inner "safety catch". Did some research in the C. Stratton book, and found out this is correct, the Mk.II safety was not threaded for the inner safety catch. Wartime economy measure, from what I heard, these safeties were deemed unsafe and changed, mine was not...yet (I will keep the original of course). It looks like my rifle was never FTR'd, not FTR markings at all,it appears the finish is original. All in all, I'm happy with it. I will take more photos in a day or two. Thanks Mark __________________ The .303" Ctg., Helping Englishmen express their emotions since 1888. Peace-Time Pseudo-Veteran Last edited by TomcatPC; 10-29-2009 at 09:48 PM. Reason: Dyslexia

10-30-2009, 03:31 PM	#7
Edward horton Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 75	Your Enfield in all probability came from Turkey, if the Enfield had remained in British or Commonwealth service the safety would have been upgraded at unit level by an Armourer. The Turks didn't “FTR” their Enfield's they simply cannibalized parts off other Enfield's. Note: Enfields were finished in RAW linseed oil and were hot dipped in a tank and allowed to soak, todays BLO is fake and contains resins and dryers and which can be very toxic. Read the MSDS for your product because most U.S. Products recommend wearing protective rubber gloves. Pure raw linseed oil is non-toxic and can be rubbed in by hand. Use some foam bore cleaner in your Enfield, the U.S. Military is using it now from small arms to field pieces. Last edited by Edward horton; 10-30-2009 at 03:44 PM.

10-29-2009, 11:55 AM	#3
Palladin8 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 2,536	A beautiful looking rifle. Hope it cleans up nicely and shoots great. Keep us posted.

10-29-2009, 02:29 PM	#5
chris l Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: UK - cradle of civilisation... Posts: 71	Nice rifle! I'll be in Wrington tomorrow, and in Brum, near Shirley at the weekend; I'll have a pint in the Plough for you.... and toast BSA whilst I'm up there. :-)

10-30-2009, 04:38 PM	#8
Dallas PUKHA DAWG Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Virginia, just outside of Washington D.C. Posts: 3,760	It looks great I hope it shoots well for you. What is the going price for a good condition Lee Enfield these days? __________________ Those who forget History are condemed to repeat it.

10-30-2009, 06:29 PM	#9
TomcatPC Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Between Homer, Alaska and Wrington, Somerset, England. (Toledo, Ohio... a long way from where I want to be) Posts: 576	Here is the after photo...not sure how much different it is? LOL. Thanks Mark __________________ The .303" Ctg., Helping Englishmen express their emotions since 1888. Peace-Time Pseudo-Veteran

10-30-2009, 06:35 PM	#10
TomcatPC Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Between Homer, Alaska and Wrington, Somerset, England. (Toledo, Ohio... a long way from where I want to be) Posts: 576	View of the bolt handle and trigger guard, notice how they are the type used on the No.5 Mk.I Rifle. The bolt is numbered to the action body and the number appears to be original and not re-numbered. I know they No.5 Mk.I was made at BSA Shirley, so the use of this bolt and trigger guard is no big deal, except that this rifle was built in 1943, and from what I have read No.5 Mk.I production started in 1944. __________________ The .303" Ctg., Helping Englishmen express their emotions since 1888. Peace-Time Pseudo-Veteran

10-30-2009, 06:38 PM	#11
TomcatPC Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Between Homer, Alaska and Wrington, Somerset, England. (Toledo, Ohio... a long way from where I want to be) Posts: 576	View of the Mk.II Safety Assembly, notice the lack of safety catch. __________________ The .303" Ctg., Helping Englishmen express their emotions since 1888. Peace-Time Pseudo-Veteran

10-30-2009, 06:50 PM	#12
TomcatPC Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Between Homer, Alaska and Wrington, Somerset, England. (Toledo, Ohio... a long way from where I want to be) Posts: 576	And the view of the top of the receiver, this is the "plum" colour I mentioned before...oh well, I've seen worse. It looks a lot worse in the photos than it does in person. This is no "collector" rifle by any means, perfect for WWII reenacting though, which I will most likely use it for. It will be some time until I can find a safe place to fire it at. If I still lived in Alaska, I could fire it almost anytime, here in the lower 48...it will be some time. Somebody asked about the price of Lee-Enfield Rifles...I paid $150 (U.S.) for this one, so they are getting up there. Thanks Mark __________________ The .303" Ctg., Helping Englishmen express their emotions since 1888. Peace-Time Pseudo-Veteran Last edited by TomcatPC; 10-30-2009 at 06:56 PM. Reason: Dyslexia reared it's ugly head...again!

01-07-2010, 11:07 PM	#13
frenchy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: central CA. Posts: 716	Beauteeeful TomcatPC $150 is a good price by what I've seen!

01-08-2010, 07:57 AM	#14
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 2,744	Tomcat, did you ever dig around about that No5 style bolt handle? I have a 4/1 of unknown manufacture coming to me with a No5 style bolt, not sure about it being matching. I also have a Maltby with what 'appears' to be a matching No5 style bolt. I have seen a few pic's of other rifles with the No5 style. Apparently they were not all that uncommon. here's the Maltby. __________________ Married men live longer than single men do, but married men are a lot more willing to die.

01-12-2010, 09:02 PM	#15
TomcatPC Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Between Homer, Alaska and Wrington, Somerset, England. (Toledo, Ohio... a long way from where I want to be) Posts: 576	Hello No, I never did get any more information on why my No.4 Mk.I has a No.5 Mk.I "Style" bolt handle knob. I say "style" because maybe that was just one variant that was in production prior to the production of the No. 5 Mk.I Rifle. I was under the impression that actual production of the No.5 Mk.I started in 1944. My No.4 Mk.I is of 1943 vintage...the number on my bolt matches the number on the action body, and it looks to be an "original" match, not a bolt that was "re-numbered" after an FTR job. Not too concerned about it LOL, just grateful to have the rifle in the first place LOL. Maybe one day I will get it sussed out LOL. Hello Chris, Did you have fun at the Plough in Wrington LOL? Thanks Mark __________________ The .303" Ctg., Helping Englishmen express their emotions since 1888. Peace-Time Pseudo-Veteran

01-13-2010, 11:23 AM	#16
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 2,744	The hollow bolt handle has been discussed on a few other forums. They are not uncommon at all. The No4 hollow bolt handle has a larger outside diameter then the No5 and the hole is smaller diameter. There is mention of it in Stratton's book. I have two No4's now with the hollow handle and one spare bolt that's a No4 hollow. __________________ Married men live longer than single men do, but married men are a lot more willing to die.

01-15-2010, 12:48 AM	#18
frenchy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: central CA. Posts: 716	Thanks for that great picture Alan!

01-15-2010, 02:16 PM	#19
chris l Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: UK - cradle of civilisation... Posts: 71	[/QUOTE] Hello Chris, Did you have fun at the Plough in Wrington LOL? Thanks Mark[/QUOTE] Just back from Bristol, and, as a friend was driving, and it's Friday, a stop at the Plough.... I can't believe that cider is made out of apples. Apples seem so harmless. I need to go lie down. Oh yes, I think we went to the Lion too. Some where else, too... big. Dark. No. Had my eyes shut.

01-15-2010, 02:42 PM	#20
spinecracker Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 63	Guys, you are making me homesick for English pubs and cider. I remember the good old days of getting drunk and then waking up the next morning with a splitting headache and feeling like a family of badgers had moved into my mouth - and crapped everywhere. Ah, those were the days....